Classical Music for Aficionados

RV how are you finding IDAGIO compared to others , do you get Quobuz yet I get it over here in Scotland and I.m loving it as I find it to be the best for classical music here as the rest and for them quite rightly so concentrait onRock and Pop. Each to their own.!!

I love Moravec's playing , The Pianists Pianist as he was affectionately known. He had beautiful tone palate and he was totally built for Chopin.

Has anyone heard the new disc from Arkady Volodos of the late Brahms works. Beautiful playing and recording.
My favourite Trifonov discs are Liszt Transcendental Etudes and Paganinni Etudes. Stunning playing and very mature playing also from one so young.He has also just released Rachmaninov Piano Concertos no's 2 and 4.Superb playing and piano tone .

I'm so sorry you guy's didn't like the playing on Levit's new disc as I really did like it. You know that it was a tribute to his best friend who had died and maybe that explains some of the hesitant playing. I'm also sure you know that the Brahm's arranged Chaconne was for the left hand alone and that may be producing the stilted effect. I must admit I greatly prefer the Busoni arrangement of the same work this time for two hands as the piano can now portray more of the work without that hellish jumping about everywhere. I have seen that piece played twice live, Pletnev and Kissin and both electrifying performances .

RV i have seen Pletnev live quite a few times the latest being in The Queen's Hall in Edinburgh a couple of years ago. An all Rachmaninov program and it was wonderfull. I think that pianists who graduate from the piano to the podium learn such an awful lot musically, just think of Pletnev, Ashkenazy and Barenboim to name but three and you have the cream of the crop. I'm afraid that some pianists go off because they can't juggle the two careers but the three I've mentioned have really broadened out as musicians especially Barenboim who just gets better year on year. I agree on the comment RV made about Volodos his technical displays are beyond belief and it is so nice to see he really can play non virtuoso fare as only Horowitz in his day could ( Just think of Kinderzenen, just magical). Let's just hope the Trifonovs, Kolestnikovs, Levits and Sudbins are allowed to mature at their own pace and we shall have some glorious players of the future.

I have the Sony boxed set of the Horowitz celebration CDs and at least once a week something from it is listened to. That Scarlatti disc of his is legendary and no wonder the playing is superhuman and if you look at him playing there is hardly a flicker from his face. I don't know about you people but I hate all this swaying and gesticulating on the piano stool. I went years ago to the Edinburgh Festival to see Mitsuko Uchida oops sorry ( Dame ) now. I could not look at her the faces and gesturing from her really put me off and I wasn't pleased because it was an all Schubert recital and at the time I had a few of her records but watching her I don't even know how she played that day because I was so off. Go back to earlier times and you had Horowitz , Richter, Arrau , Gilels and others who sat at the piano and the only thing you could see moving was their arms and hands and hardly a grimace from them and those men were superlative at technique as well .

@twoleftears
No as far as I'm concerned your Radu Lupu recording is very safe I would rather that they both sat side by side because Radu Lupu when on form is trully magical in introspective works like the late Brahms piano music. I was at an Edinburgh Festival performance of his many years ago and he was off on that day but from the recordings of his I have heard he's had a good few good days as well. If you are really into Brahms late works I used to have a disc of Willhelm Kempf doing Op 117 and Op 119 and they were trully atmospheric and I did love them but lost it when I stopped using Vinyl, don't know what happened to most of my vinyl in the eighties ( I have a sneaking suspicion my wife weedled them down by trashing a small amount each week from the garage but she never did admit it ).

John Field was a very interesting composer the precurser to the Chopin Nocturne and wrote some very nice piano concertos also but you already know that but what you don't know is way way back in the seventies my friend and I used to play Field Nocturnes on two classical guitars, but that's all history now. I used to like Fields works and I shall have to revisit him some time.Speaking of Stephen Hough , heard him a few years ago in Glasgow playing Rachmaninov's Paganinni Rhapsody and he really was very good but I haven't heard anything from him lately either.

I think of the recordings available that O'Conor does it best for me as I find O'rourke drags the nocturnes out too much. O'connor also imbibesmore life to them and I also find the Terlarc recording to be more imediate and detailed.

@maghister     I have tried as hard as I can to see something in your "God pianist" but I am sorry to have to admit defeat because all I can hear is massive rubatos and distortions of the melodic line . some of the Liszt pieces he plays are almost unrecognisable with massive agogic hesitations and splashy chords. No I am sorry he is not for me.

Hi RV I looked at IDAGIO on your recomendation but is it right that it is only CD quality ? If that really is the case I think I shall just stick to Qobuz as I can get up to 24/192 on it. You say it is really meager for classical lovers but what can't you get as I can get all the music I need on it as I nowadays I am only interested in high quality recordings. If you are interested in historical recordings then yes I can see where the others may score.

RV if you do that you will i promise hear far more, just imagine as you know the frisson from a harpsicord or hearing overtones from the orchestra that are cut off by the brick wall filters in CD players. I have listened to master tapes made by the BBC at 24 / 192 and they are trully awesome and when the resulting concert when broadcast although really good but a pale reminder of it's sire.

Yes that's a good idea , I'll try that at the weekend and let you know how I get on.

RV.I had time to do a comparison over the weekend of IDAGIO and QOBUZ streaming and I came to the conclusion that at conventional CD rates that it was swings and roundabouts , not one winning over the other. However when it came to higher rez files the Qobuz 24 / 96 files trounced the cd quality files with the higher rez having so much more air about them , also the treble was much improved on the higher rez.

I agree wholeheartedly on the Liszt B Minor Sonata and think it was maybe the best Sonata from the 19th century and also that Liszt was probably the greatest example of piano playing during his lifetime and even now. He was responsible for the achievements from Debussy , Ravel , Rachmaninov and all others after he passed. He also has wonderful music written into his Annees de Pelerinage 1,2 and 3.Listen to his Benediction de deux dans la Solitude it is absolutely divine especially played by Claudio Arrau who studied with Martin Krause a student of Liszt who passed on a great tradition of Liszt playing. Also aside from Arrau Krause taught Edwin Fisher who was a great pianist in the first part of the twentieth century. People who denigrate Liszt usually cannot play what he wrote but forget that Liszt was able to play all the music that he ever wrote. Ravel with Gaspard de La Nuit and Balakirev with Islamey are two that I know of straight off. Has anyone ever listened to the Beethoven Symphonies that liszt transcribed for piano, it was an absoloutely Herculean task and again Liszt was able to play every note which took the breath away from all who listened to him.Cyprien Katsaris is a pianist who I have playing the 9 symphonies and the piano playing is astonishing and I have looked on Amazon and the 9 symphonies can be had for , from £17.04 but I can't say how much they can be had for in dollars but I am sure it would be quite cheap also. The pianist that I would say inherited the Liszt way of supreme playing and wonderfull compositions which again he could play with great virtuosity was Rachmaninov. He took over from Liszt in that his compositions demand a pianist of supreme technical abillity.I am really glad this century is producing pianists that are able to take on the mantle of liszt and I think the stand out perfomer at the moment that I would say is way above the herd is Arkady Volodos who can do things on the instrument that everyone can only dream of. Listen to Volodos playing his arrangement of Mozart's Turkish March and you would think he had three hands. I was once at a concert of his and he played it as an encore it was just unbelievable he threw it off like a Chopin prelude it really brought the house down . let me tell you I am glad that I travelled from my little town is south west Scotland all the way to London and back for that one concert. I couldn't get it out of my mind for days and that must be what Liszt's audiences must have felt also.

You are so right RV I completely forgot about Horowitz what a Blunder that was I do apologiseThat reminds me of a story I read in the Claudio Arrau biography where his mother and him went to a recital by Horowitz and it was in 1925 in Berlin .His mother had nothing good to say about any pianist old or young that they heard but that night his mother sat there in disbelief at what she was hearing . When it was over she looked at her son and said "you had better go home and practice because he plays better than you" . What a downer for Arrau!!!!!

Hi Len,I do agree with you about the Rubinstein Schubert and I would like to make a suggestion regarding D960, Arrau made a wonderful version of it perhaps even more Germanic than Rubinstein. He also played it with the long section in the first movement that all other pianists cut and when you hear it I am quite sure you will want other pianists to want to keep it also . What Brendel had to say about Schubert was a lot of his work had what he termed heavenly lengths ( pity he didn't stick to his guns and keep the D960 to the original manuscript himself ) . I do remember going to see Brendel in Glasgow in the 70's and beyond and he played the last three sonatas of Schubert and although he didn't shock and thrill as the big vitrtuosos would do his musical taste and commitment were above reproach, he was very well respected and popular in Scotland and when he played up here the houses were always full.

LenI agree wholeheartedly re, Arpegionne Sonata and with your thoughts regarding Schubert as a whole. When Arrau was interviewed once he was asked who was the most difficult composer to play and he instantly said Schubert and the interviewer said that Schubert had written only one piece that was remotely virtuosic The Wanderer Fantasy. Arrau then countered that his music was too easy to turn into schmaltz and also too easy to counter the schmaltz and play very coldly.I agree with that remark in that many years ago I purchased a CD of Polinni doing late Schubert piano sonatas and played it just a couple of times as I found it wonderfully played but cold as ice. That's the problem with Schubert there ar too many people that play him cold. I also agree with your comments about Brendel, also look out for his book Musical thoughts and afterthoughts, a very good read.
jcazadorI must look out for the Radu Lupu recordings that you recomended, I love Lupu's Brahms but have never heard his Scubert, in fact I think I'll fire up Qobuz tonight and have a listen. Yes I read that story about Rachmaninov also , he certainly was a towering force of nature and we shall never see his like again.
to all,We have been talking about Rachmaninov and his compositions but who today has lifted up his mantle , my thoughts ? none. I get really depressed when I think of our new composers because the more I hear from them the less I like. The piano music they write is awfull and they can't or won't write a tune into there works , try asking one of them to write a fugue. No when Rachmaninov died piano composition died also , I'll even go further and say that when Shostakovitch died western classical music died also.Agree or disagree as you like but those are my thoughts.

Rachmaninov: Études-tableaux

S‎TEVEN OSBORNE piano

That is a new record the Hyperion label have just released and I was at a concert given by Osborne last year and he played more or less all the music on this CD and it was most enjoyable.

Have a great weekend guy's.

Jim.

JC
Thanks for those listings I'll certainly look into them. Isn't it strange though that Radu Lupu never became universally popular in the way Perahia and Brendel did. I think as a person he was quite insular and never pushed himself.

JCThanks for your thoughts I was starting to think I was alone in my musings about the state of music but I'm glad to see I am not. In my country when we go to a concert we are always "treated" to some new composition by some "clown" just out of compositional school. Without resorting to expletives I can only summarise by saying listen to the amount of applause that is garnered after the piece finishes and how oh yes ! the half empty concert hall fills up miraculously after that piece.I think I shall rest my case.

@jcazador

JC I have been listening to Radu Lupu’s boxset and must say it is most enjoyable. At this very moment I am listening to Schumann’s Kinderzenen and it is stunning to listen to , the extrovert movements are gloriously virtuosic. Although it won’t supplant my version by Claudio Arrau it is most definitely able to stand side by side to it. It is very nice to hear the digital transfers that have been expertly cleaned up , there is not a trace of tape hiss anywhere. I don’t know about the rest of you but I always thought Decca didn’t serve him too well as the record pressings I had of him were noisy and had an opaque cloud over them but these digital transfers now do him justice. Also a lot of the recordings were produced in the Kingsway Hall in London one of the best halls in the world for recording but how Decca could fog that glorious acoustc I fail to understand. I shall return to these performances with regularity.I have been reading your comments about Moritz Rosentahl and did you know that he was never recorded until he was in his 70s but the playing never sounded tired. Although Liszt said that his best pupils were Tausig and d’Albert he always refered to Rosentahl when one of his students was flagging and then Rosentahl would take control of the keyboard to spectacular affect. I feel that Rosentahl was the precursor to Godowsky as when he was young difficulties in execution just didn’t exist. Unfortunately Tausig died when he was very young so we don’t even have acoustic performances to guage from but from statements from other pupils who heard him they said his tecnique was even better in some areas than Liszts. d’Albert lost his concert tecnique because he only wanted to write operas and the handful of piano rolls he left are very poor.Once again thanks for the tip about Lupu.

That is what I hate about Qobuz the pauses, in work like Also Sprach Zarathustra there are so many micro pauses that it gets to the point no matter how good the performance that I abandon it. The same happens in Ein Heldenlieben and many others , now we don't have these micro pauses when we are at a concert so I don't want it at home.

I have a wonderful Eroica from Sir Charles MacKerras with the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra only it is not a recording you can buy. It was a concert in Glasgow recorded by the BBC for later broadcast. I was at the original concert and was at home a number of weeks later when it was aired. I have to say that it magically appeared onto my hard drive and for the life of me I can't understand why, but all I can say it is the very best I have ever heard even counting the Klemperer one and I don't say that lightly. 

@schubert Len, yes I used to love MacKerras with the BBC Scots in fact I have been to many of his outings with the band at City Hall Candelriggs as I used to have subs. for the BBC Scots and the SNO before they became the RSNO. MacKerras did some really great Mozart Symphonies with the Beeb band and they were highly thought of . He also brought Janacek to the Glasgow crowd and i heard wonderful playing of Taras Bulba , Four Preludes and Sinfonietta. Great pity he is gone now as I really enjoyed anything he played and the BBC orchestra were really upset when he passed.

hi guys I don't know if any of you know of this program but I have found it and it is free. I have been using O and O software for a few years and have just found a really good piece of software they have with the catchy title Windows 10 shut up. What it does is it switches off things that run in the background of Windows 10 and makes a big contribution to  cleaning up your apps that play your music. You can use it in a couple of ways you either use it with all options ticked to get full benefit or in stages to see which one works for you and the good thing is it is completely reversible at the click of a mouse. Do try it as I said before you have nothing to lose as it is completely free.

For any of you guys who like me listen to your music via a PC I have a superb little app for you. It is absolutely free and works a treat. It comes from a software company called O and O software and is called Windows 10 Shut Up . It silences all the background chatter on Windows 10 while you are listening to your music and with all the rubbish silenced your music sounds cleaner and more dynamic. Because your processor is not under so much stress it can concentrate so to speak on  the programs that you are using at the time. Do at least give it a try because as stated previously it is free and off your pc in a couple of mouse clicks

@gdnrbob  
I also tried Fideliser but got fed up with it and Instead bought some soft ware through Sam Laufer. It  was form Mark Porzilli the guy who dreamt up the Memory player and your machine is probably using it also. That soft ware was the one that really made my PC sing, I remember that during the installation Mark himself did it and he had partitioned a part of my hard drive into a 4 gig. space to put your music files that you were going to play. I was astonished the first time I played a file and I even remember the file "Mahler's second Symphony" off a DSD file cut from an SACD disc with The LSO cond, by Valery Gergiev . It absolutely blew me away The opening was earth shattering and the last movement opening was cataclysmic . The amount of headroom that recording had just had to be heard to be believed. That was a great day I had listening to files one after another and where the software scores is the increase in clarity right through the frequency range. The area most apparent was the treble it has a beautiful purity to it and it was worth the money just for that alone.     

@schubert      Gosh Len haven't watched uni challenge in years, I'm glad Strathclyde won though (I always gloat when the Sassenachs get cuffed) 
That quote was a new one on me.

@jcazador    I have a recording of Ogden doing the Fantasia Contraputistica and the Liszt B minor Sonata and although they have their merits I,m afraid Ogden was never the same after his psychotic incarcerations. He just never made any mistakes in his playing before them but after his playing was littered with fudged notes and memory slips. No he was never the same after that.

I some time ago listened to and read about   Nyiregyhazy  and came to the conclusion of are we talking about the same person here, because the Nyiregyhazy portrayed here and the one I listened to were totally different. I came to the conclusion that this man didn't care a jot about a concert technique as his playing is all over the place just like Cortot another pianist viewed through rose tinted lenses. I shall stick with Arrau who along with` Horowitz kept a good technique into their eighties.

@twoleftears      Yes Bolet was another Titan of the keyboard , I will always remember a fabulous Rachmaninov 3rd piano concerto from him in the City halls in Glasgow and after it he came back on and his encore was the Bach / Busoni chaconne, it brought the house down. Do you have his disc of the Schubert / Liszt song transcriptions he deserves to be remembered for that alone.

JC
I would love you to send me that link thank you.

@jcazador     J, Thanks so much for the link for Berman's video it was a revelation to me. Have you seen the virtuosity he exhibits in works like the Mephisto Waltz the fingers were flying on those double octaves and chords.  It is a crying shame that he never got a chance to really shine.
Catalogue No: 4145752
Label: Decca
That is the catalogue no of the Jorge Bolet recording from Presto Downloads so as anyone can listen to Bolet  with his renderings of the Schubert / Liszt Songs. Definitely worth a listen

@jc     Hi JC, Yes the Decca recording you have is the one I was talking about and you can tell from his playing that he had a rare pedigree with
beautiful filigree playing of those transcriptions. He knew so many of the old school players like Rachmaninov and Hoffman and picked up a lot of things on the way.  

JC   I heartily agree with your sentiments regarding Gould, I too favour Koroliov in Bach especially his Goldbergs which are the equal of Gould's technically and outshine Gould on a spiritual level. I urge anyone who has not heard them to seek them out.

Just been browsing on Idagio and came across a compilation entitled The Art of Maurizio Pollini and the first three tracks are Stravinsky's Three Movements from Petrushka. I have never heard them played so well and they are generally avoided by pianists as they are so fiendishly difficult, Mr Pollini ate them up and swallowed them whole. It was worth the subscription to Idagio for them alone as I was stunned by the playing. I have only ever been to see Pollini perform once and it was in the seventies at City Halls Candleriggs in Glasgow. I even remember the program as it was so special because he directed from the piano Mozart's Piano Concerto no 24 and he conducted Beethoven's Symphony no 4. I don't think he has conducted since but I say he made a really good job of it. One thing that did strike me was he had the most beautiful hands that I have ever seen on a pianist. They were so long and thin and his stretch was enormous , some of his octaves were with thumb and ring finger without the slightest strain. I would hunt them out if I were you and I assure you will not be disappointed . Other stuff in the compilation are wonderful renditions of Chopin's Opus 25 Etudes and also a virtuosic Beethovens - Piano Sonata in C Minor Op.111.

I love Pletnev's playing of The Seasons , that is my reference but have any of you ever listened to his Schumann. I love him playing Etudes Symphonique and his Fantasy in C major, I find his tone much more pleasing than most of the others with the exception of Arrau, in the last movement of the Fantasy his tone is orgiastic. Sorry for that but it is the only word I can come up with that tells the story of how I hear it. 
Now come on guys I have been reading about all these female pianists and no-one has mentioned the blindingly obvious, Martha Argerich. She certainly deserves a mention as she is now in her late seventies and she can still set the keyboard on fire, what about Gaspard, Scarlatti the D Minor Sonata  .Now I will give you all what you are saying of Buniatishvili's playing which is spellbinding at times . Her Pictures is breathtaking in some of the movements and likewise her Liszt , have yet to hear another woman play as tenderly and also as fiery as she can. She reminds me of the young Argerich , perhaps she will take over her mantle when she settles down an bit.

JC   That was a very interesting article about Richter you posted , he was a very cultured man. As for his pianism although he was a stupendous pianist the recordings that were released were really poor and didn't really do justice to him. I really admired him but could find his playing rather cold. Regarding his recordings I am reminded of the quote that was said about Busoni when he was doing some early acoustic recordings . When he had finished recording they played back one of the masters to let everyone hear this scratchy hissy horrible sound when one soul said "that sounds nothing like him" and another "said no wonder how can you put the Atlantic ocean in a bottle and stopper it". That's exactly how I thought of Richter if he had been in the west just think what we could have had. 

I used to really like Gavrilov ,I have the two cd copy of his and Richters Handel keyboard suites. Why does R ichter start the Harmonious Blacksmith Variations with such a long note ? I find it most unsettling. I am going to linvestigate Ekaterina Derzhavina today so thanks apdxyk I shall let you know how I get on. I am into the second week of my take up of Idagio and I have to say that i am really enjoying it and I don't miss the fact that it is only CD playback. I find their playback very fullsome sounding but do miss the abillity to fine tune playback the way Qobuz does but if it is a recocording I like and want a hard copy of I can then record the music stream using Sound Tap and then put the recording into Sound Forge and edit it as I please.

I have just had a look at my previous post and will you please forgive those awful spelling mistakes as i usually look at and correct before I post but my wife called me and I had to obey !!!This gives me a chance though to say something about Ekaterina Derzhavina . Well I am very pleased because I have only listened to her Goldberg Variations up to now but I am so pleased with them that I can safely place them up in my top tier of go to recordings.

Has anyone listened to Derzhavina playing Haydn Piano sonatas yet as I did yesterday and have to say I enjoyed them very much. She has a brilliant tecnique and she brings out the quirkiness of Haydn's writing. I don't know if anyone else will agree or not but I think Haydn's piano sonatas give Mozarts a run for their money. By the way Len nice to hear you chipping back in again and thanks for the kind words.

Have just been listening to Van Oort's Haydn and once used to the Fortepiano it is most enjoyable and it does make one think of the relevance of Mozart's piano writing .
Thanks RV.

For me my goto recordings of Beethoven sonatas are the Arrau Phillips Analogue Box Set from the sixties and seventies. These were recorded when Arrau still had a bit of devil in him, because his later digital series seem earthbound and stodgy by comparison. A great pity because the digital series are superbly recorded by Phillips.

Most people in the UK would be very happy with that Len.

I have always enjoyed Karajan with the Vienna Philharmonic and although maybe a bit lush for some I think he would be a perfect foil for Kondrashin.

I am sorry I haven’t posted for a while but I found I was locked out of the forum for a while ( don’t know why as I havn’t sworn at anyone lately )I am at the moment digitising my CD collection and and storing them on Hard drive, 3000 so it’l take me a while. The problem with it is I am constantly finding something I’ve forgotten I had so I usually start listening and the archiving gets forgotten about fo a while . I am one for recording whatever I find interesting on Radio 3 and I record it also for posterity using Sound Tap, a great wee program that records anything you are playing on your desktop. I then usually edit them in Sound Forge or Magix Sequoia and then at first I made CD’s of them ( hence the 3000 ). Nowadays I only save them on a hard drive so I have a few recordings kicking about. What about everyone else do you digitise new recordings now or do you just keep saving up CD’s and discs. Hope you are all well Jim.

@twoleftears I am so glad you have found the Bolet recording enjoyable.

Hi JC That was a very interesting article on Pollini ,he is very fastidious, a complete opposite to Claudio Arrau who would arrive at the studio take off his jacket and sit down and play what he had to record and then go . some of the recording staff were frightened to ask him to play something for a mike check because they knew that he couldn't just play he had to REALLY play and that would mean the whole piece not just a few bars. I think in later years he relented a bit because his technique had softened a bit with age.

JC  I have Conversations with Arrau and find it a fascinating insight from one of the greatest pianists in history and I was astonished at the photos of his hands , it actually showed him spanning an octave between thumb and forefinger. I read once about Colin Davis and his refiections of Arrau and he said that he was fascinated about his playing and he said you would see these massive paws kneading the keys but also playing some of the most beautiful sounds he ever heard from a Steinway. Although I never heard him play a piano concerto live I did hear him play Beethoven's last sonatas and I have never heard another pianist play with such a sound. A great loss indeed !

@JC   That last picture is a real find , he ollks like a young Einstein there.All joking aside that is a great photo collection wuith some real gems there, I particularly like the one with Horowitz.

I'm afraid Norrington in anything is not to my taste . I attended one of his Edinburgh Festival appearances some years back and it was awfull with violin playing that had your ears bleeding nearly. I hear also that he will not countenace any violin soloist performing with him unless they eschew Metal strings for gut. I heard a Proms performance some years ago and it was Victoria Mullova playing the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto on gut with little or no vibrato. It was absoloutely dreadful robbing that girl of her wonderful golden tone and replacing it with a dreadful screech that reminded me of those dreadful busking pipers who plague the streets of Glasgow and Edinburgh . No wonder tourists think we reside in caves .