Frogman; PLEASE look at the Celibidache Op 11.
The Munchner was always a decent orchestra .
What he has done to them is unreal.
Few Days ago I got a glance over the back of Bloomstead on a DVD .
The players looked like dogs waiting for a bone .
Well into his 90’s and still in demand !
I sat into a rehearsal about 30 years ago with him and the Radio Orch. in
Berlin (one step behind the Phil) .He stood there and asked THEM what they thought for a half-hour ! |
To the best of my knowledge I don’t think the Vienna would put up with any Conductor going that far ! I have seen that in live concert. Not a few think they are the best orchestra in the world , they sure do.I don’t, but so close I would never argue about it . I may be dreaming but I feel at the opening bars you can see whether a band is going with a conductor or not . Look at the Munich Phil and Celibidache or Mazur with his Gewandhaus to see the I’m with you all the way. Which is why I was not happy when Mazur went to New York. My late wife and I had seen him a hundred times with his DDR Orchesta, 3 $ in Leipzig .Few know Americans could go around in East Germany no problem . This is my idea of can not be better , totally different and I weep when I hear this adagio ! https://youtu.be/GbtCChVk0lA?t=3P.S. Whenever I see Ormandy I think, now there is a honest man . suble |
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Sitting here with Barbers Violin Con.. , I am thinking what a terrible shame it is that we never asked him to give us a real National Anthem ,one of love and not war . https://youtu.be/CveX2LjVaw0?t=2Op.11 is the de-facto one now in times of tragedy |
You are spot-on mahgister !
When I hear the Celibdache Op 11, I am both leaving the earth in peace
and crying for going .
Over 80 I know that to be and I do cry .
And go to a Bach Cantata to dry my tears .
Bach has a in with God . A BIG one ! |
Closes thing to male human voice ? |
I can not tell a lie, well not often. My old brain remembered I have a Op57 I haven’t heard in at least 10years . A wonderful Germanic ( he’s Austrian) jewel . My opinion of this guy is he doesn’t play LvB , he is him. https://youtu.be/-_DIl_vmj0M?t=14 |
Nobody can deny that Uchida is a great Artist , I have many of her Schubert CD’s and have heard her live Schubert . To my bystander ear Perahia does everything all at once , floats and is hyper-serious at the same time , a soulful poet . rv, it is the same with a soldier , after 10 thousand rounds go downrange without a miss , you just do it . This is the only op 57 I own , Its old and fast and I make no claims other than I love it . https://youtu.be/CcIdgp-vLgc?t=2 |
Exactly what I thought .Years ago. I liked those " dynamic ’ moves etc,now I think they just get in the way. I had The Complete Sonatas but
tend to gave a record away to young people just starting to try Classical .
The 2 boxes nobody gets are the Beecham a Last 6 Mozart Symphonies/Royal Phil /odysey/and all Schubert Piano Sonatas /Willhelm Kempff./DG We both know that and most don’t that a German is best with Germanic , etc,
etc.
To my hears the most important case is Czech .Any Czech PO / Supraphone I see, I buy, knowing all is well, if you’ve not been to Prague go,.If ever possible again that is . |
Vanguard was owned by a group of real music lovers who made nothing but the best out of love. Of course that got them to financial death . If I see a Vanguard for sale , any Vanguard, my wallet goes into auto no matter what it is or how much they want . Period . Here is a fine Vanguard with Rameau who seems to me the most neglected Great in USA . https://youtu.be/Vazk7Ixzz7Y?t=1 |
For a long time I have listened to the various Requiem’s of the Great One’s during Lent. Till last year I did not even know that Dvorak had one and it come up to the best . I doubt if anyone will listen to a 90 minute Religious Masterpiece , but if I’m wrong , this is the all Czech best one . Choirs are from Heaven as is the norm in the Musical Powerhouse that is this little land. https://youtu.be/I8OT2HVx23g?t=8P.S . The only audiences with many young people eating up Classical I have seen are Prague and Budapest . |
As I sit listening, I came to the conclusion that God was not doing
nothing for his two utmost composers of sheer beauty , Mozart and the even younger Schubert .
He just could not bear any longer to not have them by his side .
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AMEN ! Beyond all doubt this is the best Chamber piece ever . Period . Also pretty much agreed the Emerson Qt. has the best notation of any. Not to say one is better than another, but I think this group has a tat more soul .Just a small matter of taste , https://youtu.be/Dc3iX7x73JY?t=1 |
P.S. rok , no sweat , Takacs are among the very best.
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Speaking of Easter you could hardy do better than this Masterwork ! https://youtu.be/FjJ02agjjdo?t=1Seldom do you hear a perfect rendering of any anything , esp. one as big as this one is complicated and 400 years old. To my hears this is perfection |
If memory serves , It opened in Dublin because in Enlightenment London
in the early 18th century a theater drew more than a Church , as it did in "Founding Father" America,
When it got such a great opening in Dublin they thought it would be safe in London . And as you know and I approve Handel told then what would
happen if folks did not shape up.
I listen to it 2-3 times a year and a Bach Cantata every morning .
I would guess that God would like Black Gospel just as much .In the Army some of my NCO’s took me to various AME Churches .
I came away with something I still believe .The "Black Church Ladies " are the backbone of Christianity in the USA.
White Americans are largely brainwashed, far more than any Europeans . One thing comes to that, the death of Democracy .
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rv, I love the Schubert D960 (like everybody) and as you know there are many very good renderings of same . I’ve had about 20 over the years. l know I have a Germanic bias and I would say this guy this perhaps not the best technical player but this 1967 recording is the most "Schubert" of the bunch . Tell me how foolish I am please . https://youtu.be/TrRSQboCGxQ?t=16Guy is Wilhelm Kempff rok , Understandable a SB would not get a 400 year Catholic Classic . Though I did not Study Music at Munster I did drop in a class about Music often . The Prof was VERY learned and a pleasure to hear. One thing he said talking about String Qts. has stuck with me. He said never get angry at the North American groups , they have a slight problem , very slight and one they one they do not know, Their culture is "how am I doing " , Ours is " how are we doing " . Beats me . |
inna, What you said proves what I have thought, you are mentally ill.
frogman , I think that were he still alive, that Prof would say what you did .
It was said in the 1960’s and took about 2 minutes .
It stuck in MY mind .
I have noticed over the years that many players have become more harsh etc. I thought it might be because the World they were born into was that.
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frogman , I am all into diversity in large countries like the USA. Over 10% of Minnesota population are refuges or immigrants
and we are better for it in our Nations largest % iof Federal Voters. . My best friend is Chinese and a nicer man I have never known .
It can be not so good for little countries
Little European Counties like Austria , 8 million, Slovenia 2 million,Czech Republic 3 mill ,fear for their culture and unlike USA have real reason to . They have taken as much people as they can take and are musical lands that want what they have.
Big -hearted Sweden is falling apart for taking more than it could handle .Germany , The Euro Engine with about 90 mil took a million in one year and 2,500 refugees raped German women on New Years in Berlin.
Their religion says that is their duty.
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rok, I have to go to Church on TV .First one I flipped today started with
about 15 minutes of Messiah, Organ, brass and percussion.Pretty Place with no others in it .
My first Presbyterian Church, good sermon as well. Preacher was almost like Charles Stanley in Bible knowledge !
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It was rok, I’m expert on that if nothing else.
Check this rok, I was Sgt . of the Guard in Spadau(Berlin) Prison one morning . , French, UK, Soviets and us rotated every 3 month to keep the only two Nazis left there, Speer and Hess . Went around the mess corner and ran into Speer , who was every inch the gent , said in English " Good morning Sargent ,looks like a nice day" . He extended his hand and out of habit I took it .
Hour later I went by Hess and he said " guten Morgen " as he tended his flowers .Must of cost millions to keep two old guys .
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Speer had an lQ of about 18O , right up with us .
What Berlin Brigade did was rotate every Infantry Co . one Platoon a week.
I just happen to be there . C/3/6th Infantry . Best unit I ever was in . Only one that ever had real discipline .
.My friends in the East Anglican Reg. told me the Russians didn’t hurt them but their food suck when the Soviets were on .Brits always had better Indtel .
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Found a Terful jewel on You Tube ! https://youtu.be/Il-jv_7BLp0?t=2Not even Bach can freeze me, literally , like Schubert can.Best thing I ever did was get a German girlfriend who could not speak English.Even if she was a b....h |
I only am Schubert because of the first time I heard of this and needed
something . While looking for that all I saw was R & R titles
and thought these misguided fools need some class.
Wish I just chose Harry or Herman the German .
If you want a fabulous Schubert lieder outing this is the best I know .
Brryn Terrful on DG 445 294-2GHHard to believe the Great Welchman could turn German but that
fabulous voice can do anything .
I doubt if one can be found ,but who knows
rok . Would it be free trade if a firm was told what they could do or say
by the Congress under threat of blackmail or punishment ?
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I’m not sure frogman. my putter is acting up .
I do know he was slower that the Germans and the older I get the more I appreciate that in general .
Jack Brymer always had a place in my heart just because .I read his book on plane once , fun , even if I didn’t get it all.
Stolzman was good .Frost was here a lot with the SPCO , great when he wasn’t going crazy.
My ALL time hero on the misery stick is Karl Leister with Karajan .He made zero mistakes and could change his tone about twice a second.When the players in the Berlin Phil are in awe ........But I have been told I have a German bias.
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Jim , your fantastic good taste is beyond belief .
If I did not know that every day you are made ever better and better by the tonic of Scottish breezes off Scottish waters I would be jealous !
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frogman, you are a music maker and a upper level one at that.
I’m just an old guy that has listened to a lot of music.I as much said my clarinet sucked , so Elly and Schubert is more than enough for me .I’m in 1% in love for Schubert and her.
Tone everyone can hear, only a star listener always hears pitch, someone
like Jim . I only said Stolzman was good because he was American. I could take him or leave him , he was the star for years.
My jury is in for Frost he plays like he wrote the music .
Had do, he knew how it really should be .
Jack is my uncle , at least I think he was.
I was always listening to Karl’s tone , he could give the conductor what he wanted with a blink of an eye.Makes me feel better than any other I have heard on his instrument Simple.
Thank you for your class . I truly appreciate them .
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That’s good Jim, you deserve it.Here in North America we used to have Spring for 2-3 months , down now to 2-3 weeks at best.
Seems to me that the pana thing is just showing that everything is related to everything . Mother nature seems fed up with the human race which has about killed her and it’s time for her to use what she has, the last card.
I fear for the young humans, most of the older ones care not . |
frogman, I finally got a "puter that let me hear Wright .
In my hears he is very lyrical which is Schubert all the way .He and Karl are a draw to me .
I know that Valente is a great singer and has sung all kinds of classical
to great result .Including chamber and all else.
But for ME she is too much opera singer for Schubert.
Elly is the darling of the original crowd , a plain beautiful women’s voice .I can see he on the Herrt. Benita would be a stretch for ME .
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I went to Marlboro about a dozen times , Not hard when you live
60 miles away and not expensive .
A truly great fest , far better than the one in Mass.
I will never forget sitting 20 feet bur I have from present boss, MitsukoUchida.playing Schubert , it was a cool day but the blouse on her small back was soaking wet. Not easy being great which she sure is .
I’m with Mazur , "I love every note he wrote " .Mazur had a large tome he wrote which showed that Sym 1-4 were of one piece .Could Be.I don’t have Brahms IQ score but I think he was the most intelligent of all the great composers .
It’s not really bias , like a women, you like what YOU like period .And if you buds say different F....... them.
P.S I don’t know if this is true or not and I have never said it . In 2 German books I read Brahms sleep with a bible under his pillow and knew every word of it.
I imagine he could.
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Well there is this guy called Heinz Holliger .
As soon as your first CD started It came back to me . I had this recording
a long time ago.In those days I didn’t care who was playing just wantedSchubert and Mozart .As I said Wright is lyrical + he REALLY helps the singer . There is a old Principle Oboe Man, soon to retire , In the Minnesota that does that as well and has a beautiful tone . Might be a tad easier on Oboe . Seems Wright has one tone, beautiful ..Karl has 2 . LOL.
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IMO , this is a Great Oratorio which seem to get very little play anywhere and none in North/ America . I realize God is not in vogue but even an atheist could enjoy this Masterpiece . Mendelssohn , Elias, with his band the Gewandhaus, Leipzig . https://youtu.be/Nqfeb0jWPkA1968 Phiilips 420 106-2 I start with 2nd part as it is shorter and Elly Amellng starts it off . Words are from the Old Testament . The ever reliable Wolfgang Sawallisch at the helm.P.S. frogman, It came to Me, my first choice on the first day and page this forum started was the Mozart, Schubert , Serkin , Marlbourgh . Not far down the 1st page . About 41, Elly took over sung like an angle , my hair stood up ! |
Jim, how do folk in Scotland Feel about the Prince passing ? I never thought that grown ups needed Royalty but after last few years here I'm not so sure. In any event he seemed like a good enough bloke to me and I have a adult sadness for him . I wish we all has more sadness for these people upon their deaths . https://youtu.be/WaHcxz2fpvM?t=1 |
Sometimes ? I thought was all the time . Another good one is Gil Shamam/Berlin Phil/ Claudio Abbado https://youtu.be/sXPKJjNNI1s?t=2One Great of Brahms Symphonies that seems to not get much love is ,Staatskapelle Dresden /Kurt Sanderling . solid as a rock . You Tube clips are NOT ! |
One would think so but Americans seem to ignore him .
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I didn’t have time to listen to the Gil/ Abbado /Berliners and made a mistake. Been a while since I heard mine .
They were not good , they were all that night, the Best in the World .The young Gil did what he does so well, play with imagination without
going over the line And the Berliners went right with him !
You Tube did not finish it , at least on my "putter . But I imagine every one who hears it will buy one .
rok, since it is THE greatest aria ever written all should buy that as well .I have 7 different ones and get my hanky out for every one .
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Jim., At least Nichola was not phony , I dare say she has done more for the youth of Scotia then Her Majesty .
Over here It always looked like Charles was the pick of the litter to me because of his stands on keeping the Planet.Today I found on long BBC program here that his Dad had a lot to dowith that and many charities as well .Good on for Phillip !
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I know I get carried away , but I just got through listening 3 times to the You Tube Shaman/ Abbado/Berlin Phil /Brahms Vn.
It is the best clip I have ever seen on You Tube !Gil and Abbado are as one, the Berlin sounds like a SS Panzer and the audience stated normal clapping at the end and all of a sudden a 1,000 lb exploded !
. Film is fantastic as well .
I see sometimes You Tube puts a square box on corner which you must tap if you want part 2 of where you are.IMO about as useful as boobs on a rattle snake .
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IMO Prokofiev is bested by only Sibelius and Carl Nielsen among modern composers .
IMO, his best " Romeo and Juliet" is the Previn /LSO outing is the greatest.
Most of all he did with the LSO is never been bested.
Celbidache did a stunning Classical and his 3rd Piano Concerto with the Berliners but is hard to find on Urania.
Ormandy also did an fine 1and 5 .As did Thomes Sandard with Royal Scottish on Linn .
Valery Gergiev had the Russian touch on many labels and is can’t miss
on all of them.
My fav piece is his his 6th . Mravinsky’’LenPoPraga/67 my best outing.
Nothing wrong with Ormandy's 6 either.
Cheers
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Scotia ain Jim ! I'll have to check that B Flat Major .Lang may yer lum reek as well . |
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So glad you like Tureck Jim, Canada got a jewel in her !
Canada is opening american border entry at midnight today after
18 months of no go. US did not do so , A friend in Montreal says stay away, average joe is angry when Canada is better vacined.
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How a baroque violin concerto should sound . Absolutely magnificent by Midori Sieiler and the Bremer Barockorchester ! https://youtu.be/b42vwZmG6k0 |
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Yes , but this is not the American - Japanese .one but a Bavarian- Japanese one who who grew up in Salzburg .
Her tone is nice but just control of her instrument is unreal !
She is the Queen of original violin in Europe .
Type up her Bio , it is hard to believe the amount she has done ,
one of the best I ever read on wiki .
If I ever get back to Germany {unlikely) I would go a long way to hear her.
Bremen is the most blue collar of all the German cities , a wonder it has
such a good little band .
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