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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Back testing Jensen vs. Duelund as coupling caps.

Looking at just getting complete Duelund in the signal path.

I had taken out the amp with the Jensen electrolytic. Not knocking Jensen as the coupling caps are pretty good, but I do not care for the electrolyic cap. No Black Gate WKZ to compare too.

Part of me would really like to try a paper in oil for the first cap in the power supply. Just do not want to spend a bucket load of money on a Duelund just to hear a theory.

Might just finish off full Duelund signal path and call it a day. (except first cap in power supply)
undertow
1,033 posts
 
So I might be wasting my time here, I will try to collapse my own experimenting over the last year… However, due to the length of this thread I will get to the point for anybody trying to decipher what works best from the beginning in my opinion now.

-Duelund, excellent in Speakers and Electronics… I actually find at their cost that the better application is in full range electronic positions as I am currently using.

-Mundorfs, hit or miss honestly. Certain applications excel using these some not.

-Clarity MR, best all around performer for the money, speakers or electronics.

-Jupiter HT new caps… KILLER in electronics, so close to the Duelunds in tone and natural sound its silly and they are very reasonably priced. I have not heard these in speakers. I would choose these over Mundorfs almost always in a full range application especially due to cost.

-Finally the best overall cost effective way to handle your Highs, and Mids in a Speaker crossover. Sure if you can go 100% Duelund and the cost is not going to make the project just unreachable go for it.

However, bar none so far out of all the Jantzen, Duelund, Clarity cap, Jensen oils, Mundorf oils, and Audiocap Theta's I have heard go with a Base value cap you need from Clarity MR, for example if you need a 1.0 uF go with a Clarity MR, and then BYPASS it with a small Mundorf Silver/OIL no gold needed!

The Clarity MR really is right between the Mundorf Silver/oil and Silver-Gold / Oil Fame in my opinion. And this combo really is the best I have heard using a MR with a Mundorf Silver / oil bypass on it.

I was shocked when I accidentally did this combo, It actually bettered a Duelund VSF in my application and luckily the Duelund was a perfect value to use in my Phono tube amp and was then transferred to that output cap position saving me a TON of money on the speakers now using the MR / Mundorf silver/oil combo.

This cost me something like 20 bucks for the small Mundorf Oils, and around 40 to 80 for the larger Clarity MR's so for under 100 bucks a cap position compared to 200 and 300 for the Duelunds which were not as impressive for the money vs. this combo anyway in my application is the way to go for most.

By the way I have used the Vishay bypass caps as well in this application as mentioned on the Humble capacitor shootouts, they do work well, but for sure add a more "Plastic" sound where the Mundorf Oils really disappear and make everything wider, deeper, and warmer when combined with the MR's.

I cannot explain it, but it is smooth / magic and musical for the cost projects out there, again easily beats all other combos mentioned above, I would stick to Clarity MR, Duelunds, or Jupiter’s for electronics however depending on the cost and size restraints.
micr0
4 posts
 
Undertow.

And what about the reproduction of low frequencies in capacitors ClarityCap MR, when compared with Duelund?
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Honestly very close.
The Duelunds have a very organic bottom end in full range production, the MR is very tight and powerful. It will come down to system synergy. No doubt if your more into tube sounding bass that the duelund will be more like that, the MR is a little more highlighted.

Tuff call, however I do ultimately in a speaker application use a MR but then again in a woofer its a parallel cap, and for output caps I do prefer the Duelunds vs. the MR in some ways. So it will be very difficult to say which is totally better for all applications, however for straight out cost effective I can tell you the MR is right there overall. You have to spend A LOT more to do the duelunds.
micr0
4 posts
 
Undertow,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm just interested in capacitors for use in loudspeakers.

Another question, what capacitance Mundorf Silver Oil used as a bypass for Clarity MR?
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