Frederik was the CAST developed for Burt's horn systems?
Is that why I noticed so much noise difference from VSF to CAST is the exagerration of noise caused by horns?
This may be a touchy subject you may not want to answer and I understand, but the cost of CAST? Can they ever be mass produced? or VSF? Is it a volume issue or a manufacturing process issue? I remember reading Steen saying when the VSF came out that they only could be hand made.
Another question that has intriqued me is the noise reduction from VSF to CAST? Why? I for one did not expect it. Both modern caps and I understood noise reduction from vintage to modern but from top notch modern (VSF) to CAST I was not ready for. Is it the hardening process? Also have you reached the limits with CAST or is there still that same kind of noise reduction still possible?
Could I expect the same kind of noise reduction on coupling caps in vintage tube amp to VSF or CAST that there is in the passive? or not the same magnitude?
Thanks again. |
Dave I did not replace the series resistor is the crossover yet. Can you explain why series resistors make so much difference? Noise? Or Frederik that would be great for me to understand this. |
Sorry my speakers have a series tweeter inductor. .245mh. How does this affect sound quality? |
Wow Dave on the fly! Care to rate the PIO ones? |
Dgarretson with all the caps you tried, you have not tried Duelund correct? The resistors yes? Curious if not, why not?
There are a set of used/brand new never used ones for sale here on the site now. They are VSF .33uf if anyone is interested. (100v crossover caps) |
Dgarretson I would agree totally on the vintage PIO caps.
I did like the vintage foil in oil in the midrange 2nd favorite to the Duelund but in the tweeters vintage was just garbage. So much slurring and noise just trash. I think/hope you will be surprised by the Duelund when you do get them. It is the realism.
I wish Frederik would clarify if the realism is the no plastic?
Frederik you mentioned quality of the whole chain. In that "quality" does that mean getting rid of plastic? Steen felt that very important.
I am just asking this as I do not know whether to fix up the paper bobbin OPT vintage amp or do a more modern one.
I have heard very expensive modern tube amps and yes they were smooth but not real sounding.
Fas948 has had the reaction I would hope for from Duelund coupling caps. I find Duelund does not show full glory if mixed with plastic caps. Is non plastic OPT the same?
Maybe Frederik could answer that when running a (plastic mid range cap) into the Duelund tweeter cap I did not get the full Duelund sound. I did with the vintage foil in oil cap the Duelund sounded great in the tweeter. What I mean by this is that one plastic cap in the chain was not good. |
Frederik in my test which of course is only my one set of speakers. I could mix and match vintage foil in oil in one speaker and Duelund in the other and listen to both speakers. As soon as one speaker had plastic caps and one with the vintage foil I could listen to only one or the other speaker at a time. It was almost like they were out of phase.
Also when a plastic cap was put in for the midrange and Duelund for the tweeter and the signal goes through midrange cap. The Duelund did not give the same improvement. (yet the Duelund did when used with the vintage foil midrange cap)
By far the second best cap was the original foil cap in the midrange. Again no plastic. Many Klipsch fans say the AA crossover is the best I often wonder if it the foil caps they used then. Newer Klipsch crossovers used plastic (industry norm) and do not have the following.
I have yet to hear a customer of yours not think your caps make a natural sound.
My modern SS amp did not make the same improvement using Duelund as the vintage tube amp does either. My amp of course was loaded with plastic caps.
There is also a large following of vintage guitar amps, (my tech guy who plays guitar would have nothing but vintage tube guitar amp) vintage stereo amps all with no plastic as a common thread. The thing both vintage guys will talk about is the tone!
I do want to thank you as I have yet to find a downside to you caps.
My gut says and I am going to find out if your caps do the trick in a vintage amp. My gut says a vintage tube amp with (no plastic anywhere almost) and a set of Duelund coupling caps will blow me away. All the "real feel" of the vintage/foil with a massive noise reduction to really let you hear what is going on. To me your caps are the best of both worlds. |
Frederik one comment I made a few months ago was that the bigger the cap the bigger the dynamics. Even a bigger plastic cap had better dynamics than the small one. I took a lot of heat for that comment.
Comments were very common that "the size of the cap has nothing to do with anything". Some said it complete lunacy. Steen said "Go for older types following the simple rule that bigger is better".
You can correct me or disagree as I have no problem with that.
I kind of thought you would have thought the vintage foil in oil for the midrange being the second best to your caps (Duelund) by a long shot a crazy statement?
I found wayyyyy more difference in a Duelund CAST and VSF in the tweeter than a VSF and vintage foil in oil in the midrange.
Are coupling caps as important as passive crossover caps?
I do not know if you know of Arthur Salvatore but he ranks the Klipschorns as the greatest of vintage speakers and were class C (upper) used to be Class B. I have emailed him knowing he is a Klipschorn fan (and he is formerly from Toronto just over an hour from me) saying he has got to hear these speakers when up hear. If stock they were Class C (in a tough list) these are of NO comparison. I have owned them for 28 years and can say they ain't your Dad's Klipschorns!
|
Thanks Fas948 that is what I would expect but have never done an amp upgrade. Heck until I read Steen's paper on what matters in a system I would always have just bought new gear. After the cap (Duelund VSF and CAST) upgrade in the speaker not only the best money I spent I now understand why guys mod gear.
I did want to ask you did you come from plastic caps in the amp before? If that was the case I can easily imagine the change as it would be a fundemental change from no plastic as well as quality change.
Until I rebuilt my speakers I was on the upgrade itis that companies have you on. That is when I found Arthur's site and he said there had not been any real big improvements in amps in 40 years and if a company told there was they were lying. Then finding out from Frederik that even Steen used vintage caps until he made his own convinced me we were not really on the right track. |
Vintage Mica caps? Steen talked about these being very good sounding. Anyone ever heard them? Wikipedia says they were manually intensive and high cost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_mica_capacitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_(component) |
I have put the CAST back in one speaker in the tweeter and the VSF in the other just to see if my earlier impressions were still the same and whether I should buy VSF coupling or CAST but I kind of had my mind made up on this even before hearing again.
For sure a large part of me agrees with Dgarretson on balance.
Not doing this again as I only end up frustrated. It shouldn't be but it is.
The CAST make the bass way tighter, deeper and easier to follow. I know they are tweeter caps but they cut noise so much they tilt the sound downward and make it even more natural. For all the guys on here singing the praises of CAST over even VSF saying it is a whole different level they are right but Frederik the prices! Frederik I would love to go CAST everywhere but would have to re-mortgage the house to do it! They should be standard on highend gear. To bad all gear was not made with these caps.
I going to switch back and put one CAST and one VSF in (and I was very happy) before I do something stupid. |
I have parts coming and am getting on to fixing up an amp.
Anyone ever try VCap Teflons in Electronics? I am starting to weigh size and price options.
I would love Duelund but price and size might be a problem. |
TempoElectric really likes them and i seem to find them very accurate in their findings. |
Fas948 I hear that too many VCaps will leave a signature. Any feeling on that? Some say cool?
Fas948 nice to hear that you agree with the CAST I thought Tony should have rated them higher than 13.5 because to me they were almost as big a jump from vintage foil to VSF as from VSF to CAST. I was dumbfounded.
Fiddler I am glad the Vcaps were a big jump over the Mundorfs. Arthur Salvatore thinks they are the biggest thing to come out in Audio in the last decade. (he has not heard the Duelund's to compare)
No doubt CAST are amazing as I have one speaker on CAST tweeter caps (right now) and one on VSF and I could justify in my mind upgrading to the CAST but must admit to still really enjoying one VSF and one CAST in the tweeters. I have heard that you get most of the benifet of the better cap in the circuit even at small values. I have 2 equal ones in series and have of course no way to test how one CAST and one VSF sounds in comparison to two CAST's.
The V Caps do seem to fit well (for me) and as far as prices and not even in the same league. $40 a piece at 5 or more. Duelund VSF $219 and CAST do not even come in such small values but start at $300++.
In small values V Cap prices really drop Duelund's do not. at 2uf like my tweeter caps VCaps are $322 each vs $180 for VSF and $361 for CAST. |
Hi David
There is no capacitor on the woofer circuit on vintage horn Klipsch. There is an inductor which I have not yet changed.
I have not tried Duelund hook up wire and the caps are still connected with Aligator clips. That is all going to change within a month. I wanted to really hear the difference and wanted another CAST vs. VSF test. I will go to upgraded terminal connections as well when everything is hard wired in. I do agree with Dgarretson that hitting many areas of weakness likely the way to go. It is where to spend limited $ I am sure duelund hook up wire is great but as big a jump as same $ on new coupling caps? or better tubes or going from VSF to CAST for tweeter caps etc? Fun hobby but trying to spend wisely can be tough but it is nice to know the kind of difference caps can make.
I have the 4 Fisher tube amps that I am testing and if that does not work will try another model. The x101d was so quiet I could hear around an instruement! Amazing! Unfortunately the other Fishers are not so good. I have a new output transformer coming to repair that amp. I have a x202 (uses 6BQ5 tubes) being repaired and may try a 400c with a power amp as well. Then I am going to mod one of the amps. My tech guy is slow! I have called and want to get this done. Itching to try out these Vcap Teflons or Duelund in electronics. |
Hmmm I am going to have to try some of that Duelund hook up wire. I know I am going to one day replace my Linn speaker wire.
I still having trouble with this silver thing? Not sure why a few feet of silver hook up wire running though my copper caps would matter?
Could someone fill me in on speaker wire is it size or silk? What matters most? Any advice on this?
I am going Steen's advice though getting plastic out where possible. |
Face
Why are CAST so much better than VSF?
Massive noise reduction. The CAST make the VSF sound noisy in comparison. In my comments to Frederik I did mention that without a doubt I did not get the full Duelund effect if I ran a plastic midrange cap then signal goes into the Duelund tweeter cap.
I did get the full Duelund effect running the plastic free vintage foil in oil midrange cap into Duelund tweeter cap and did admit the difference from vintage foil midrange cap and Duelund was not massive and even Frederik did not dis the idea.
To Frederik I did say I did not get the full Duelund effect with my modern and quite pricey plastic filled SS amp.
So Face if your signal runs through the Clarity and into the VSF in my opinion you will not even be hearing (maybe 20%) of what the Duelund's can do for tone. If you do not get the full tone benefit of the VSF I can understand why you may like the Clarity better. I believe you the Clarity could be quieter that was the reason to go to Poly caps was it not? The VSF is about bringing real tones into the system and the CAST brings real tones with the black background of the best polycaps making the CAST as Tony says the best of both worlds. |
Undertow
"use a mix as you see fit of VSF and MR's and your not missing much"
This has not been my findings as I said even months ago to me foil caps do not mix with plastic caps at all. That is why I asked Frederik about what was up with that.
I have often wondered if Arthur and others talking about how much of huge improvement the V Cap Teflons over other caps are is because they are not plastic? |
Undertow
Yes this thread may be "WAY DEAD" but the quote saying not using resistors and inductors of 1979 quality. You say that as if 1979 quality was for sure a bad thing? Frederik even admitted that Steen until he came out with his own caps used vintage caps and in my tests the vintage foil blew away the modern Mundorf Supreme. The reason I have not replaced the inductor is not $$$ but I take getting the plastic very seriously and bringing more plastic in is not the direction I want to go.
I also ended up selling my "modern" $10k amp and pre-amp for a vintage Fisher x101d. It was not even close and the fisher did not have any 1979 parts only 1964 parts so the linear improvement in parts in time I question very much.
Even Tony who rates both Duelund caps as #1 and #2 in the world is really just saying that a high quality vintage cap made of all natural ingredients known for 100's of years is the best in the world. All the "modern" plastic caps are all of varying degrees somewhat inferior. |
My Klipsch have the normal lamp cord gauge what guage is that? 16 or 18awg?
Do not want to go smaller. |
Also I have a in series inductor of .245mh in the tweeter circuit.
I know I hear you guys talk about Duelund resistors being a big bang for the buck improvement.
What about a in series inductor? Why would Klipsch use an inductor for the tweeter? Any help? Would it affect sound quality much?
Also Duelund has lowered their prices! and our Can $ is on the rise this is getting much better. |
Mike
I would really like to know do you run the signal through the Clarity and then to the Duelund? If so I can understand you saying not that much better. I thought Duelund to not be worth the $ until run through a foil and then to the (of course foil) Duelund.
To me and I said to Frederik as good as find his caps I have found Steen's findings to be as important or more so. (really more so) My parts (output transformer) will be here shortly to fix the one really quiet Fisher I have and then I am have the caps done and from what I have found out, plastic the coupling caps will not be. I am likely to order V Cap Teflon's. So this is not just a Duelund thread (sorry Frederik) but a thread on Steen's findings who I think is really on to something. I put in one plastic cap in the circuit and night and day the tone and timbre was not real anymore. For me it is really thrilling to hear "real" sounding instruements.
Frederik alluded to it being the plastic holding a static charge. There is clearly something wrong with all the "improvements" in audio in the last 40 years when Stereophile as much as admitted a 500c was as good as anything made today. This should not be the case after 40 years a 500c should sound like an antique! I for one was embarassed when the antique x101d blew away my 10k pre/amp with all it's modern "improvements". I have to admit it took me a few months of two systems to go what the heck is going on! That is why I read his paper over and over to try and understand what he was thinking. Even Frederik said Steen used vintage (plastic free) foil until he came out with his own. |
Fiddler yes excuse me of course you are right on Teflon. I do hope the V Caps sound great as I will be buying them shortly and I would be thrilled if they do. The V Caps certainly have a good reputation from all corners.
Maybe I should rephrase that to poly and not plastic (in general) as Teflon is of couse very slippery.
To be clear I should say I noticed a clear difference from the Mundorf Supreme and S/O to Duelund VSF in tone and timbre and when the signal went through the Mundorf the Duelund did not sound like it can. (my crossover is through the mid range then to the tweeter caps) |
Parts come in and they are not the right parts. Different output transformers. x101c and x101d are not the same I can see why one would get annoyed with this!!!! Both 7591 tubes but not the same transformers. x101d's are much larger! |
Getting the x202 (Old Fisher) rebuilt and it needs a new filter electolytic capacitor.
I wanted my Tech guy to use ASC recommended by Tempo Electric as the best caps for that purpose anyone ever use them?
He was ordering Cornell and I never even hear that name in Audio talk.
Someone mentioned about old parts not being as good, better not talk to my Tech guy (an older English guy trained on tube gear but works more on TV's now) who thinks todays parts are by and large pathetic garbage. He says Electrolytic caps today are sometimes lasting only a year and in years past (as in the American made vintage gear) 50 years was quite normal.
I want him to replace anything that is needed in the old amp and he says only replace what is needed because every new part will be a down grade. (don't like the sound of that)
He feels this way about TV's as well thinking they have never been built poorer than right now and the best era was late 70's before all the U.S. manufacturing went offshore.
I have told him to stick to Tempo's list of just Tier A. Duelund (which I already know) V Cap and ASC if they fit. |
Another question my tech guy said that in the past the transformers could look different but in fact be the same inside?
Is that right? |
I am going to finish off the crossover build permanent.
Any recomendations on what to mount parts? And hook up wire? Nothing crazy as I am going to spend a bit getting a pre-amp and amp and upgrading it.
Thanks |
We need some guys who have tried plastic free. Dgarretson can you come in comment?
If you believe the Duelund story it is the oil impregnated cotton wrapped wire one wants. I have said it before (and taken a ribbing) I think getting the plastic out to be big.
Getting the static off the wire makes sense to me and cotton does not get a static build up like plastic.
I am getting Duelund wire for sure just Copper or Silver and I think copper. |
Face
I did just order a 10 guage North Creek today. It changes the resistance from .29ohms to .15ohms. I understand the bass will be tighter but maybe leaner? A 12 guage is the closest to original spec. After listening I would like tighter faster bass. I hope I have guessed right?
North Creek seems to think I will like 8 guage even better. It is not the money it is am going in the right direction. Might have an inductor to sell.
The part I don't like about tuning is selling parts for half or less that have no use!
I did not know Clarity cap came from Wales? It is quite big. |
Hope you get some answers David. I too am waiting on the Silver wire comparisons otherwise I am going to order copper.
Please post your Duelund cap impressions!
8 guage would sure lower resistance!
For me I find the higher the freq the more the need for quality. If I did want to try Silver I would start in the tweeter. If you notice no difference I doubt you would in the mids. |
Talked to partsconnexion today and am just getting Duelund copper 14.5 guage (no plastic)
Wire one of the most controversial audio topics of all time!
I think I am coming from 18 guage. (internal speaker wire) |
I "hope" to notice a difference. I was a mid fi store today just checking on some connections etc and think I am going to hard wire as well. Klipsch used to use some pretty crappy parts like spades connection strips etc. Paul Klipsch of course is famous for saying anything more than lamp cord for speaker wire is b*llshit! I do not agree with that statement and have noticed an improvement going to heavier gauge but have never used expensive wire. My linn speakers came with $1k of Linn tri-wire and like I said on here before it ran through a $2 tweeter cap and to me that is b*llshit! I am not going crazy on wire and hope to notice an improvement but really am not holding my breath somewhat heavier guage and no plastic.
If someone said to me a choice of $ on wire or Duelund caps it would take .2 seconds to decide that! |
Ait the Duelund cotton concerned you? Do you mean from a short point of view?
Interesting on the tweeter wire I have always wondered that if lighter wire for delicate signal but have no proof.
I am only using Duelund wire out of respect. The company who gave me the most bang for the buck improvement (new) ever and tonal realism I did not know possible from their caps is getting my $'s.
I wish Frederik would come back on and say what to do? Silver for tweeters and copper or whatever for woofer but I doubt he will do that?
When looking at connectors at mid fi store I did hear their top stereo and Holy Crap am I getting spoiled! (it was like black and white after having colour) I have to drive about an hour to hear real expensive stuff and am going to do it. Not trying to brag but I think my speakers will SMOKE anything they have! |
Ait do you really think Duelund (or anyone) could sell a wire that had oil dripping out of it??? Sounds kind of dangerous!
Frederik what is "baked" and what does it mean from an audio point of view?
Frederik you did not say on the which metal for wire? or which metal where?
You have been very modest all along. I remember Burt telling me that the difference from VSF to CAST would not be a great as vintage to VSF. Letting me know of law of diminishing returns from an already great cap. It is refreshing in this business!
To be honest it was someone on this site who recommended your VSF caps and I thought I would try one thinking I was throwing my money away. I was shocked!
Then again to be honest the CAST I expected to not even hear the difference. (from VSF or what scared me be not as good) Shocked again!
Wire? If I hear a differnce of crossover wire short amounts really I'll say it again, I'll be shocked!
Sherod I have offered Arthur from highend audio to come hear these speakers. I said to him if Klipschorns are Class C upper (just down from Class B) these are no comparison! I said I would let him decide how far up the ranking they would go. Arthur is from Canada about an hour from where I live but lives in the Florida now. I am not saying they are the best for everyone but if one likes Klipsch (for what they can do) like Arthur does these are clearly a massive improvement. |
Ckorody I assume you mean Duelund wire? That seems to be Duelund's forte basically a vintage idea done to modern specs and of course no plastic.
I am very glad to hear the wire sounds (assuming you mean Duelund) good though. I do not have tight spaces to worry about.
It is amazing to hear how many people are rebuilding crossovers. Didn't we used to just buy new speakers? Is this a growing trend on the importantce and cost effectiveness of crossover rebuilds?
Big market for you Duelund as there are a ton of well built speakers with crappy internal parts! |
Irish65
You are just the guy I need to talk too!
Is it copper wire with copper capacitors. I just can not see the need for a short bit of Silver wire? I have many other areas that need $ in my system, I would think before Silver wire.
Now since I will never likely hear a Silver CAST capacitor can you describe it to us?
Thanks |
Irish65 Yes the CAST vs. VSF is a big difference at double the price but the Silver is 5x CAST copper's price! That is a BIG difference! That is wayyyyy out of my league but it is very nice to hear that at least there is something for the 5x $. (for the well heeled or just addicted!)
Did you compare the Silver 2.0 to the copper wire by Duelund? Likely not if you use 2.0.
Do you use Duelund speaker cable?
Tried the caps in electronics?
Thanks |
Dgarretson is that another built in cost difference for duelund style of inductor? The WPIO or CAST does it have a large EMI? I would guess not? Is that why Irish65 thinks the Duelund better? Clearly the DCR would be higher on Duelund so is it oil/silk? or inductor cross talk? |
Irish65 did you notice a difference in crosstalk from your CAST to North Creek? |
Irish65
Please keep us posted on your electronics cap test. I am like I said finding the right amp and then will start the rebuild. You are comparing many of the best and would really like to hear what you find out.
I am not looking for Duelund to do any tilting (with Silver) just do not want the tilt from Silver that I got from Mundorf SIO. (just not to my liking that upward tilt) I prefer that Duelund natural sound. Copper wire is in my budget but might try a small amount of Silver out of curiousity. Then it will become like the CAST caps leaving me wanting more!
Your assessment on CAST to VSF. I found the CAST wayyyy quieter and with that much bigger size wayyyy more dynamic. I am curious if that dynamics carries over into coupling caps? I do find in the CAST to be somewhat more demanding though, they do not smooth out any upstream problems. The VSF resonate more with smoothing and smearing, but I much prefer CAST.
Since I have one of each cap in series where would you put the CAST first or last?
I have heard many say you get much of the benefit of the better cap, meaning a VSF and CAST is not half way between but closer to CAST? True? |
Irish65
The North Creek inductors how do they compare to most stock inductors?
When I placed my Duelund order I did not order inductors. I was unsure if they would be worth it. If I remember reading right in Steens writing's him saying an inductor MUST have low DCR. With this being the case would not North Creeks 8 guage be in a league of it's own? North Creek uses no plastics correct?
I might look at getting North Creek maybe more in my price range. How do they compare? I know you said second favourite to Duelund. Is that Duelund WPIO or the CAST inductor? North Creek is much cheaper! With the parts you have tried you are putting them in elite company. What would be the difference in Duelund? The Silk instead of varnish? |
Thanks a ton Irish65.
I have a parallel inductor on the tweeter circuit. Do these make much difference?
I am still kicking myself for not ordering Duelund inductors when I put in my order. (much lower prices then) The problem with these kind of parts is they are of course non returnable. This is the reason I started this thread I could not find non corporate info on caps at least not as detailed as I was looking. Some tech guys even said all caps were the same as long as they measured right? Another tech said ALL new caps would be better than your old ones. Boy did I find that NOT to be the case.
The cheap caps were way worse then the original foil ones the Mundorfs were better, but still not as good in the midrange as orginals and all were sold at a fraction of what I had in them. (exept one 2.2 Mundorf Silver in Oil if someone wants it)
The "expensive" Duelund's ended up being the cheapest! I still have and love 'em! They were the only ones better in every way. (than original foils)
This is the reason I still have the old inductors. I really do not like buying and losing money. Since you said the North Creeks were good I have checked and many do like them and often a lot! (some of those are Duelund users as well at least the caps)
If I take your discription right like going from VSF to CAST that to me means really, really good to something I did not know possible.
Thanks again |
Talked to North Creek on the phone about inductors.
Hysteresis
The thing that surprised me most was they said most people talked about improved midrange with a new woofer inductor.
Hmmm
Hysteresis
I feel I have compression right below mid freq I am very curios to see if this is gone with either a 10 or 8 guage inductor? |
Sorry guys for the commodity post. The stock and commodity trader coming out in me. I do not own copper futures but other commodities.
I bought the first 20 ft of Duelund copper wire. (more to come)
Ait like you I am trying for bang for buck. I think that is why threads like this can help. I am getting North Creek knowing (or at least I believe Irish65) that Duelund sounds better but at $1k an inductor! I can get North Creek and V-Cap teflon an amp for less! Now would a VCap'ed amp and North Creek inductors sound better? Not sure but would expect so.
Duelund I do have the upmost confidence in your products no doubt but why do your inductors cost sooooo much more than anyone else? Your caps are not? Yes they are more but not that much more. |
Duelund
I am not sure? Very thin though maybe 18 to 22 guage. .29DCR Iron core at 2.5mh.
Should one want to go lower DCR? I keep hearing two sides to that issue. A 12 guage Air Core closely matches original DCR. 10 and 8 guage are both or course lower DCR.
Guage of wire is one issue but resonance must also be an issue and more than I thought. When one can clearly hear less resonance from the VSF (an excellent cap) to CAST. Another issue must be the silk or whatever the wire is coated in as Irish65 thought your 12 gauge to sound better than 8 guage albeit at much more cost.
But I also assume resonance means much more in the tweeter freq than the woofer? Am I wrong here? North Creek says people talk about improved midrange (with the bigger lower DCR woofer coil) is that because of less resonance (with a high quality coil) in the low freq make the midrange stand out better more clearly?
If I get 10 or 8 guage I am looking at dual runs of Duelund 14.5 guage copper hook up wire to the woofer. It just seems strange to have a thick wire inductor running to a less thick hook up wire. Bottle neck?
Thanks very much for the help in clearing the thought process on this.
I assume the Silk and oil on the copper wire is the same as on the capacitors and inductors? |
Wow! Ait
My speaker design makes 90 deg easy as the crossover sits flat but do not like the sound of that idea sound coming out of the wrong driver!
What would be lots of space. I have done some reading with some saying that was one "advantage" (if you want to call it that) of Iron core is the Iron core overwhelms everything in the area so it not affected by magnets from drivers. (if you call that an advantage?)
Have you thought about outboard?
I can find very little on this subject of inductors? (except from manufactures)
What do the North Creek's sound like? Did you come from Iron Core or another Air Core? and same guage? |
Ait
I was talking to North Creek today and they said to make sure your coil was a opposite angles to your woofer magnet. (meaning 90 deg) |
Ait
Sorry I was kind of joking with the Iron core. Meaning it is a side benefit of hysteresis.
I totaly understand where you are coming from on the cost factor and think you have made good choices. Mundorf Supreme's are a very good bang for the buck cap. I would love Duelund inductors but that is the tough part knowing if that is the best place to put fixed amount of $.
Duelund resitors are supposed to be best bang for the buck part as well.
Keep us posted on your rebuild.
I did check on a seperate issue on the net they had copper prices the lowest in history in 2002. (U.S. $) The second lowest year was 1932. (inflation adjusted price) So today's copper price is not out of line at all! In fact when my speaker were built copper was twice as expensive as today. Steen did say good inductors would be measured in pounds or kilo's of copper or silver etc. |
Sorry copper link.
http://www.fwallstreet.com/blog/183.htm
Rumour has it that the Chinese want copper (and other commodities) instead of $. So unlikely we are going to see copper prices of 6 years ago maybe the lowest in history.
In the 1800's copper was $16 a pound. Those North Creek inductors have 10 lbs of copper in the 8 guage so up to $160 in 1800's copper prices per inductor!
http://silverstockreport.com/email/copper_discovery.html |
Hi Dave
Is there any negative to lower DCR? At the price of North Creek 8 guage is getting close to Duelund WPIO time you add in shipping. (Duelund has close to original DCR with 12 guage)
Do you have your inductors in yet? I am still looking at 8 guage that is why I ordered just one inductor for now. Plus shipping to Canada oddly enough can be cheaper for one inductor than two if it goes below USPS shipping weight limit.
Yes I know SET is very happy with his 8 guage and of course he changed the DCR of his speakers. Some say bad idea? I just don't know? |
