In traveling around to hear other systems one can hear strengths and weakness of their own.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1315679530&openflup&32&4#32
In this recent forum someone had just heard a set of Klipschorns and noticed right away their strengths and weaknesses. In the area of weakness image depth. It is my belief to a large extent image depth is created by Audio. Whenever I listen to live music I close my eyes and can not tell who is in front of whom. There is also image overlap. I hear separation only in Audio but not live. The instruments will overlap and crowd each other.
I am not saying it is bad what is done in Audio with depth but is it real? On the downside Klipschorns can not by nature produce depth in image. Is it there in the room? maybe? I should say they can but the image needs to be shrunk by the pre-amp to be very small so you can have front to back depth. I would assume anyone who like Khorns loved the life sized sound.
So all comments in this thread have all been about improving image tonality and no cap has made the speakers have great depth.
Still burning in the VCap Cuft. |
I am not sure if others have done this but I have tested my ears on my wife's iPhone and should disclose I have the poorest frequency extension of hearing in the family. I think around 15khz. My wife 16khz and the kids around 18khz.
So I am the one commenting on audio with in at least by some measures the poorest hearing in the house, but am the only one who cares! |
Tom
For sure and by no means did I not mean some of these Audio terms such as sound stage are not truly enjoyable, but are they real or created? (for our enjoyment)
I have heard that theory before on body hair being a receptor for high frequency and known as a possible reason many do not find CD as enjoyable as vinyl or high res digital that can go beyond the ear sensitivity range that CD was designed for. |
My wife is a pre-school teacher and was at a course today and part of it was about getting plastic furniture out of the room and going to wood.
The reason was static electricity. Seemed like right out of Steen's playbook. |
Micheal
Still doing the burn in. I have been very busy lately getting ready to finish the basement for being a sound room. So spending more time on should I insulate for sound deadening reasons etc than the caps. I knew I was getting into a long break in with the VCaps so have just tried to stay relaxed.
In going out to hear all the Hi-Fi systems I could the one that struck me the most was the one I bought his CD player and DAC from. He works for a high end Audio store in Toronto I would guess for maybe 20 years. He did a fabulous job integrating his sub into the system. I was VERY impressed. His system was better than mine in one area his bass was integrated into the room almost. I listened to his quite modest system after hearing $100k+++ systems the same day.
How many guys are using subs? Most of the time I hear this they sound disconnected from the system. His was awesome!
Right now mine excels at tone compared to anything I have heard but can for sure be beat in bass. I need a sub. |
Tom
Any recommendations for subs with Klipschorn's or Lascala's? |
I have really been taking my time with this one and still not done. VCap Cuft vs. Jensen Copper paper tube.
One would think the better the cap they would sound alike, they do not.
At the start of this thread a long time ago I heard my speakers (all foil caps) that I have had for almost 30 years at the time with a vintage tube amp with all foil caps. My eyes were as big as pie plates! It was like Colour TV vs. Black and White. It was the first time I had ever heard Colour sound. I knew right away there was something to this.
Then came the Duelund's essentially the same thing but with lower noise floor and less resonance. Sometimes sounding wayyyy better than the vintage and sometimes just a little.
A couple of nights ago I was at a friends house with a dedicated sound room with a set of Khorns. (huge sound) He had them hooked to a SS Pioneer Elite surround sound amp and his Khorns have poly caps. It was the same thing Black and White. He was using the Oppo SE for digital. Still high res Black and White. The amp was far too noisy for Audio but still the biggest thing was Black and White.
Back to the VCaps Cuft these for sure are impressive. If one is looking at lowest noise floor the only competition might be Duelund CAST? I have not heard the CAST in electronics and cost is the reason.
So, so far if one has "all foil" caps in the whole chain I really like it. If you are at the Jensen level you are giving up bass tightness and have a higher noise floor vs. the vCap Cuft but are getting a more natural tone. If your system can not utilize the Jensen advantage then go VCap Cuft.
I think it comes down to what one values or can get.
I said this a long time ago now even one non foil cap in the chain changes the sound.
I know I take flack over this but Audio Notes mega buck systems are Silver and foil caps everywhere.
Still burning in but unless there is change I will put the Jensen back in or move up to Duelund at some point. |
Tom
Any advice on dealing with odd shaped room?
The room is L shaped 25' by 11' both long walls around that length and both short walls that length. (ceiling a little less than 8th)
It is in the basement and I could use any kind of insulation, wiring anything needed right now as construction starts in a month or so.
I will check into the sub. I have been reading a book about getting the most out of the room. I will be going 2 channel and music clearly #1 priority and no surround system even in the works, so sub is only music focused. I feel odd even saying sub and music but I believe it can work now! |
Tom
I did not want to wall it off, but could? No HVAC a steel beam that will be covered running 11' from the end of the long wall. Should the sound not go against a covered beam? I will do that and send you pics here this week on when room is cleaned out. No posts to interfere. Small windows and only 2. Kitchen and living room above. So being able to listen and not disturb is a for sure bonus.
How much does room come into play in sound? According to this book a lot? I have heard a drone off uninsulated current duct work at times. |
Sorry Jbuidan.
I will keep it to PM's. Just excited to put all this together in the room. |
I know I should not take a turn on this capacitor thread but for 2 years I have given my honest opinion with no commercial involvement in this topic and now the room is ready to be done. I could use some help and only have one shot at some of this.
In reading Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound he is very much on the same page. He is a former high end Audio Store owner and installer.
His priorities are tone, rhythm and dynamics. He says sound stage is largely created by audio gear.
He says flooring should be on a wood floor and claims no pre-amp or amp can make such a difference. I can put down a sub floor on wood? Anyone any feeling on this?
Sorry if this is off topic but really is on topic. If a proper floor is more effective at tone than spending another $5 k on caps then it should be considered first for anyone going down this road.
This is one shot for me. Once walls and floors are done that's it. I can always change a cap.
The question I have is |
Thanks Guys
I was thinking wood sub floor carpeted on the concrete.
My speakers can be bright or aggressive so assume a non bright room would be best.
What Undertow has stated was the premise of the book that the room is totally overlooked. I would think some of the dealers who are on here, Duelund etc. would have a room preference?
Grannyring glad to hear that on the Duelund Alexanders. I am sure another fine Duelund product.
I can really see the logic of hardwood under the speakers and carpet elsewhere. I know the idea of wood in the basement is not good but this would be on a sub floor.
I am even looking at which kind of insulation to put around the ductwork. One article recommended Roxul and not fiberglass for sound reasons. |
One thing that is funny in the book is it sounds like Steen's playbook.
You need real wood floors or sub floors and diffusers should be wool or cotton. All Natural products. |
In this book he recommends the system not be between the speakers but off to the side. He is clearly not using Duelund Silver wire! |
Wow Micheal you are right almost 4 years ago.
This thread has helped me a lot as well. I can for sure say I do not lust over any Audio gear, which saves me money!
I have one stock vintage amp except for the power supply which is Jensen Electrolytic and it sounds terrible! (just hooked back up)
I would really like to hear a paper in oil power supply and have hoped someone else on here would try it? I was quite shocked to hear the difference in power supply. |
Merry Christmas to you too.
I have been listening to the system (when i have time) with taking up the carpet. Getting ready to start the project. So just concrete and I do not like it! (which is no surprise) I am not sure if a wood sub floor will be better than just carpet over concrete which I was listening to before but am starting that test.
Jim Smith's book Getting better sound he claims nothing matters more for tone than the wood or wood sub floor. He was an installer and former Avantgarde Speaker distributor for the U.S.. He was also a retailer of many high end brands so clearly heard a lot. He also placed tone and dynamics high on his priority list.
He says wood floor more important than ANY pre-amp difference.... |
