Another thing I am wondering is how much quieter will the Duelund wire be in the amp? I think a fair bit over cheap stranded. |
My dealer Hi-Fi dealer used to say when customers said they did not notice much improvement in whatever piece of gear to put the old one back in.
That is when the difference shows up.
Well I have done the last comparision with the Duelund Silver vs. stranded copper. The Duelund is MUCH better. I really wish it wasn't as I had only bought the stranded Linn speaker wire around 2 years ago. The problem is the stranded is in a cloud, dull and lifeless by comparison.
The comparison is 5' of Silver (18 guage?)vs. 15' (I think) of 12 guage copper. Yes the shorter length of Silver could be helping. But it is a small guage.
At first I found the Silver fast, vivid but maybe sharp? It is the copper that is slow and dull.
Time to put the Silver into the speaker and I am not to thrilled about having two speakers with stranded wire.
I have already been onto Partsconnexion's website and see Duelund is no longer selling the round copper wire.
Duelund does this mean we will see flat copper? How does it compare for us on a budget?
Thanks |
Duelund
Hmmm you did try tar? Are turning over every rock for better sound?
I am waiting to see on partsconnexion your Rev II wire. Any idea when it is coming out?
Jimmy is trying your resistor in his pre-amp? I thought they were just for speakers? Should be interesting!
I was reading in Stereophile about the Hi-Fi show in Munich about the Korean businessman (Silbatone) who brought in a set of Western Electric speakers (not for sale) and many thought them the best in show. Anyone hear them? |
I just can't get over it. I have spent more time listening to the Silver vs. stranded copper and the difference is big, very big!
The Silver is MUCH more dynamic. It also is MUCH more natural sounding. I have always wanted to know if Steen was correct on plastic giving the sound of plastic. I know it is true his capacitors do not sound like plastic but there could be many factors as construction etc.
Well the plastic coated speaker wire for sure sounds more platic but I still do not know for 100% as one wire is copper stranded plastic coated and one solid flat silver Silk, cotton wrapped.
So is it the stranded wire? or the plastic coating? I really can still only guess.
I suspect the solid wire (Silver) keeps the signal intact.
I suspect the stranded wire garbles, dulls and muffles the sound jumping from strand to strand.
I wish some more guys to test the wire. I think you will be very impressed. Try in a low cost area as yes the Duelund Silver sounds much better but a $25 a foot (two strands for speaker wire) compared to less than $5 for the stranded copper it should.
Frederik I know I have asked before but can you make Autoformers? My whole crossover would be Duelund then or is this something that is much different to make than an inductor?
Thanks
I can say for certain I am really dragging my feet on using the Silver wire as hook up in my other speaker as one fully Silver wired (except woofer) speaker is more enticing than 2 speakers using copper stranded speaker wire. |
Running an almost all Duelund signal through one channel. Still have one Jensen cap in the pre-amp.
I am curious for electronics is Duelund is worth the extra over Jensen. Tony has not tested Jensen Copper Paper tube yet. I find it MUCH better than ampohm but can not yet say compared to Duelund VSF.
Soon the Silver wire goes into the speaker and I am going to compare Jensen vs. Duelund. |
It looks like new competition.
I was reading on Jimmy's site about the new Vcap Copper Teflons. Anyone tried them? I will not be as I am almost done.
Just want to hear Jensen vs. Duelund VSF.
Jimmy has been very accurate in my mind. |
Test of Jensen vs. Duelund VSF
The Duelund for sure has the richer tone. A more liquid sound in the midrange but it seems the Jensen Paper Copper Tube is more dynamic.
Now some joked about this but the Jensen is bigger cap. In every case I have tried the larger cap is more dynamic. So at what point is the cap big enough???
This is all from memory. Going to a better comparison with both speakers wired. Just wanted to hear an (almost) all Duelund all Silver wired set up.
As it stands right now I am going to stick with what I have. (which is a mix of Jensen Duelund in the amp)
Duelund VSF strength (tone, tone tone) everytime I have added a Duelund I pick up sounds of more instruments.
Jensen Copper Paper Tube (swing) Like Jimmy had said on his site the cap has excellent swing. I suspect that the Jensen has more in common with the CAST.
CAST might be the answer for best of both worlds. (at a very high cost)
Will try the Ampohm vs. Jensen as well but can already say Jensen is in a different league in the bottom end. |
Speaker all wired up. End of that experiment.
Testing 2 Duelund VSF vs. Jensen and Ampohm. Ampohm was still in and later vs. 2 Jensens.
Of note.
Duelund Copper very tough to work with. I had no woofer for awhile did not get the wire clean enough. That silk really must be cleaned off. Not a big deal but the Silver is much easier to work with. |
Reynold853
I can not comment on the S/G/O as I have only had the S/O. Do post back on here it should be interesting. The VSF may come across as flatter but with better tonal richness.
Dgarretson did mention long ago something that I believe that we should go after the era of weakness for most improvement.
I have not used a Duelund resistor as I do not need any but the most common comment I have heard is a no brainer on Duelund resistor. |
The friend was by today and is now bidding on a mint 500c off e-bay. He does not want to really even look at systems anymore.
I have said it is much more than just the Fisher and not to go crazy and hear some more systems. He thinks it sounds really natural like a life presence.
His opinion was similiar to mine this system sounds much better than the $60k new system and on a different planet than 10k gets you. There is a store with some of the very finest brands in the world that we are going to go to within a week.
Now I want to hear better.
Duelund I think you are going to sell some more caps. |
Reynolds853
While doing your speaker have you thought about the internal wiring? Not sure what you are now?
I must agree Duelund/Frederik do seem to want to keep a group of products whose sound quality improvement is very real. The only Duelund product I have tried that was not excellent was the round copper wire and they no longer sell it.
There is no shame in VSF's so not to worry. I had two CAST and two VSF's in the tweeter circuit and prefered of all combinations the CAST followed by the VSF. (two CAST's were very good as well)
Reynolds I expect your going to say a tonal improvement. |
Ampohm test
I had wondered if pairing an Ampohm with a Jensen Copper Paper tube would correct some of the Ampohm's weakness.
The Jensen is bass strong and dynamic unlike the Ampohm. Ampohm has the "see through" but flat sound. (to me almost exactly like vintage Vishay ERO foil in mylar)
Tony talks about cooking a little of this a little of that.
Ampohm caps rated even higher by Tony than Mundorf S/G/O are a much cheaper than Mundorf and a fraction of Duelund VSF or CAST.
So does it work? Still testing but it is closer than you would think for $100 of caps vs. $400. Duelund costs do not drop (I expect due to being hand made) when in smaller values.
A couple more days and I want to hear Jensen vs. Duelund VSF.
The cap that does not seem to get much talk the Jensen Copper Paper Tube. Jimmy had thought it and the CAST the best of the bunch with VCaps, S/G/O and old Jensens. |
This thread started off by wondering why did a vintage tube amp with all foil caps and vintage speakers with all foil caps sound so alive compared to modern hi-fi.
Not sure if anyone has noticed but in Tony's top caps the top three are all foil caps CAST, VSF and Ampohm. When he tests the Jensen I will bet that the top 4 will be foil.
Since that time Frederik had said Steen used vintage caps until he used his own. In testing the Ampohm caps I can not tell the difference from vintage Vishay ERO caps. I would rate the vintage Vishay around 12 if Ampohm is 12.5. In all the caps that Tony has too choose from his 3rd best (Ampohm) sounds exactly like 50+ year old vintage! In fact the tube store sells these largely to guitar guys looking for the vintage tone and Ampohm is VERY good at vintage.
http://thetubestore.com/
When I started doing my speaker people told me "all" new caps would be better. I found only Duelund to be better in the midrange. (again foil)
In Jimmy's tests of the most modern caps #1 and #2 were foil caps. (CAST, Jensen Copper Paper tube)
Reynolds you might find yourself going the way that many of us have. In my mind CAST and VSF do not sound that different. You are paying your $$$ for lower noise. In fact right from vintage to Ampohm to VSF and CAST the biggest difference is resonance and noise and how much you can live with either. |
Sorry for any irritation I have caused.
I only meant that for anyone who thinks caps all sound the same they for sure do not and even caps of relative style (and likely rating) Ampohm (foil in Mylar) Jensen style there is a very big difference from each other. |
Been away for a week on a cruise. Spent as much time as possible listening to Jazz trio and excellent String quartet from Kiev, Ukraine.
I have never listened so intensely to compare to a system as it was never even close in the past.
Well it is still not close. Violins are really tough! To get that high freq while still having a natural woody sound, not easy.
Reynolds I have to agree with Irish on outboard crossover. You may want the space once you hear just how much is lost in the crossover. The inductor is huge. I had sent an email to Tony Gee about rating them as well, the not talked about part. I was shocked at how much less (high freq) noise came from the Duelund inductor. (VSF) I was not expecting less high freq noise at all. Back in this thread awhile ago there was a link to a Clarity White paper on caps and the resonant noise they ALL produce.
Frederik I agree with you now about Steen saying about the CAST having no (or less) addition to the signal compared to his own VSF's. |
I was out with a friend to local hi-fi store. He is looking for a system.
Started with a $10k system. Terrible!
Then heard two $40k to $60k systems. They were getting closer both SS systems by well known names U.S. and U.K. won't say which.
The one from the U.K. I heard the most and sounded nice but could easily pick up the grain in the sound.
That system had maybe better bottom end extension and front to back sound stage. As far as tonality and realism not even in the same league.
The friend is coming over and has never heard mine so we'll see? I am just presenting another option that I feel is MUCH better and wayyyy more cost effective. Used speakers gutted crossover, used vintage amp that can easily replace caps in. He likes new stuff though. It shall be interesting to see if you get more work Frederik. |
Sorry to interupt the resonance dampening discussion.
As I had mentioned long ago I am still very intrigued by why the recording process improved till the late 60's. As much as I have enjoyed the Duelund parts they clearly reveal that the recording process is just as important. The recordings using tube mixers and (likely foil caps) and Nueman U47 mics sound fantastic! I have read that Frank Sinatra would walk out of the studio if they did not have a "Teley" (relabeled Nueman) tube mic. |
Reynolds
I have various vintage tube amps nothing crazy although the vintage foil in mylar caps sound almost exactly like Ampohms foil in mylar which Tony Gee ranks 3rd to the two Duelund's.
Favourite amp would be the EL84 but do most testing on a Fisher 500c. (just more room for these big caps as you are aware of the size) I am not a "vintage guy" though before this thread I owned none. Tubes are Russian EH's and vintage Telefunkens 12AX7's and on the EL84 vintage 6BQ5's Mullards. Lots of other tubes as well.
Front end is an Linn LP12 loaded to former (late 90's) specs before all the new stuff came out.
I think you will find that the bigger, heavier (Duelund) caps are more dynamic and of course sound better. To me they sound like they look, feel and "smell". A thick dense solid beautiful natural sound.
Don't you think they even smell natural???
Do let us know.
I am doing the Duelund VSF vs. Jensen test tomorrow. |
Face I believe you are correct and of course electronics are different that crossover and caps are of course speaker specific to a point.
I do want to clarify that I am not negative on the Ampohm. I have said I really like some of the vintage foil in mylar (why I bought the vintage amp in the first place)and these caps are designed to replace them and do and excellent job of it.
Just installed the Jensen and it is shocking how easy it is to hear just one cap from another. Sounds totally different than Ampohm and I mean huge. |
Reynolds853
I understand what you mean now about being lucky. He is lucky as he gets to hear the cap comparisons first hand without having to part with the $$$ first where else can one do that unless someone has a friend?
He is coming by today as I am trying to get him to fully understand what he is getting into. He is already to drive 9 hours each way to the U.S. (like right away!) to get a set of Khorns and buy a vintage tube amp right away. He has now spent a ton of time on the net checking things out, I am sure we can all relate to that.
I have told him the passive & active caps/inductors/silver hook wire are HUGE part of the equation. The Fisher and the Khorns are the cheap part!
I told him he needs to hear a stock Fisher (which is what he will be buying) and a stock set of Klipsch (Heresy's I have for Alnico drivers) to give a more accurate assessment.
Last time he was here I did not ask him (forgot) which channel was better the mostly Duelund (amp) or the Jensen. He will have no way of knowing so let's see if he can hear the difference. |
Well he is off it Indiana tomorrow to buy a pair of Khorns and vintage tube amp.
He was over today and could hear a difference from the Jensen and Duelund and he liked the Jensen signal better. I did not tell him which he was listening too. He was going back and forth but and was confused. Half an hour is not long enough to really form a good opinion.
I disagree and so far like the Duelund better. It has only been a few days. They do sound like the same family though. |
Well he bought the Khorns.
Good news for Duelund. He does not mind the idea of another $4k in parts just for the speakers.
We went looking at systems and I just said he should come here mine as a reference to other systems.
That seemed to be it, no more looking. He thinks I am obsessive over internal parts. We'll see. |
The friends comments were interesting.
1 Doesn't even sound like a stereo.
2 Very Clear.
3 Very natural sounding.
4 Didn't know CD could sound like that.
5 He was looking at new DS's but said "I can not imagine better digital sound". (this assumed a lowly CD was a problem)
4 Vinyl not worth it.
He was thinking of a turntable and I can not argue with his comment as Duelund seems to take away nasty's from digital. Vinyl still has of course the ticks and pops and worst of all wear that can be soooo easily and clearly heard.
In fact I will spend no more on turntable upgrades. Not anti analog just vinyl wears to easily.
I have thought about how this has happened to a former vinyl guy? I think Duelund has a smoothing effect. The main difference I can hear with Jensen is Duelund sounds more liquid and natural. Not soft but just liquid. I think the silk oil construction?
This seems to really help digital. (spent the first month pinching myself listening to digital after getting first Duelund caps)
I believe vinyl is already (of course) analog so does not need smoothing. Is some of the vinyl craze merely that vinyl compensates for either SS harshness or dry sounding caps?
At this point though my next upgrade will be Duelund speaker wire either Silver or copper. I hear Rev II is coming out but do not know what that means?
I really miss the Silver wire now that it is used up in my other speaker.
When I upgrade the speaker cable I will get back to the last few caps in the amp. I may even sell the LP12. (mostly sentimental reason for keeping now) |
Friends Khorns have AK-3 network. I seen them tonight but have not heard them. I gave him Steen's paper on speakers link. (the best article I have ever seen on speakers)
It is very easy to understand why many prefer the older Klipsch networks. They had foil in oil caps not poly. The AK's have poly. My CAST caps for the tweeter have to be at least 50x the size of his!
Friend only heard the Khorns briefly and said they sounded horrible. Poor conditions and amp he thinks. Hmmmm? I don't think so.
I read some of the Merlin thread on the Duelund site. He talks about the different things he hears. I do often wonder about other speakers with this level of parts? I would really like to compare mine to other speakers with Duelund parts.
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=speakers&m=291879 |
Not sure if you are around Frederik? I have been looking for some info on Steen's interest in horn speakers.
My midrange horn is an Atlas Alnico patterned after the famous Western Electric 555W. (and it sounds FANTASTIC) The last WE sold on e-bay for $5,500 each. Klipsch at one time just used WE drivers but likely had the Atlas build it for them after WE went under?
http://www.audioanthology.com/audio1.html
Any info on how much Steen was into horns? Anyone and which types?
Anyone heard (other than in the theater) vintage Western Electric compression drivers? (originals not copies)
Just trying to figure out the difference in quality of compression drivers from the copy (I have) and the original? I just do not get it no matter how good the WE 555 is it still needs excellent parts in front of it as this guy has found out.
http://homepage3.nifty.com/western/audio/field_555_4/field_555_4_E.htm
Thanks |
I do have mine sitting on cloth and plywood and the plywood is on cork. I am not sure if this is good or not it just was what was already here.
Maybe duelund could comment on the need (or no need) for isolation and what kind? |
I have been working a lot lately.
The friend has his Khorns and Fisher. This system must have left an impression on him as he was up half the night for the next several nights. I said go slow take his time but he then drove to Indianapolis (speakers) and then to Chicago to get and amp.
Now back to being picky. I am going to get some Duelund speaker wire for sure, just not sure if Copper or Silver? I would like some speaker wire so I can say for sure favourite caps in the amp. So far it is the Duelund VSF over the Jensen Copper Foil both are very good though. The difference seems to be aliveness, naturalness and liquidity. Duelund excells at making you think you are not even listening to a stereo.
Going to take over the amp to his speakers so he can hear the difference. (Jensen and Duelund caps) |
I have been doing some digging into the Neumann U47 tube mic. (regarded as the Holy Grail of mics)
These are known as capacitor mics. Funny thing it is tough to find out what kind of caps they used? Guys go about rebuilding them and give great focus on the $2k vintage tube etc. and treat caps as not important.
I find MUCH more difference in caps than tubes? Yes there is a difference in tubes don't get me wrong. I do not mean to upset tube guys.
One thing I will bet on with this sought after mic that those caps DO matter. I have heard many say that there is a huge variance in the U47 well no doubt if the caps are changed in such a crucial component as the mic you are going to hear it! If the mic messes the sound the whole chain is done.
I did read one guy claims to have reproduced the sound using silver foil caps. Well at least I can understand that.
There is 3 caps and 8 resistors in the mic and no one can clone it? (I bet money it is the caps or caps resistor combo)
They mentioned paper in tar??? Could that be part of the U47 sound???
Funny in the thread the guy mentions using modern Audionote, Auricap, Mundorf or "maybe even a Duelund if it could fit" Now that I would like to hear! I have yet to hear as good a vintage cap.
It could be possible to better the U47 mic.
Duelund you really need to get these parts in commercial products. I would be thrilled! |
Duelund
The thread mentioned paper in tar caps. I have not heard of that but can see the sense in it for dampening. Anyone heard paper in tar caps??? |
I checked on partsconnexion and the website is not updated?
What is Rev II wire and is it just Silver or copper as well? Is the price the same?
I will for sure be following Jimmy's thread on the resistors. I have not tried any Duelund resistors as my crossover does not have any resistors. |
For someone who has not played with resistors what are the differences and what kind of magnitude? |
Micr0
This is very interesting.
I was under the assumption power supply of course affects the amount of reserves and how quickly and quiet the sound. I did not even think it could affect the tone? Part of the reason I did not want to even post it. I just shelved the amp.
I remember reading that Leak used a paper in oil power supply in the Leak Stereo 20 (never heard one) and also hearing great things about the Leak's natural tone.
I did not want to say it but poly in the power supply sounded the same to me as it did in the speaker crossover.
Leak (Quad II's as well Paper in Oil power supply)
http://www.bassboy.com.au/getreel/site/classicamps/files/amps/leak/tl12/amp.htm
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/quad2.html
I have 2 EL84's same brand. I am going to have to compare Jensen power supply vs. ASC. |
I will be having some more time in the next month for some more tests.
I have been digging into the recording process more as it seem there was a huge improvement in the late 40's early 50's. It seems the Neumann U47 mic is credited with much of this. The U47 shares much in common with the "Hitler mic". The early U47 used the same capsule as the Hitler Mic. The so called "Hitler Mic" was a blank cheque government design given to Neumann so they could make a mic so good it would capture emotion not just sound.
http://www.wunderaudio.com/CM7sound.html
I understand the early U47 capsules were very complex (and costly) to make.
Duelund have you ever thought about redoing one of these U47's vintage mics with your Silver wire and Silver CAST caps???
We might actually end up with something better than the world has ever seen/heard!
Going back to more regular comparisons here soon and want to start using some Silver in the amps. |
I have done more extensive listening to the Jensen Paper vs. Duelund VSF. often on Mono CD's just to be sure.
The differences
With Duelund sounds are indentified much easier less random sounds. (this makes music more enjoyable)
Duelund has much more natural reverb and tone of each instrument.
Duelund has less midrange drone. What causes mid range drone???
Jensen sounds more mechanical.
Duelund sounds much more rich liquid and complex.
I will in fact not likely be doing any more comparisions except within the Duelund range. (I will leave that to you guys) The thread is starting to sound like an advertisment for Duelund. I can easily hear the difference. I wonder if it is caused by the silk???
It is the same to me since I first put my first Duelund cap in the crossover. Liquid sound. I could not believe it then as I hated my dry CD player before that tweeter cap. It is the same today each time I put in one more of those caps (or wires) the system is more natural with better tone and less random noise.
I do not want to be critical of Jensen Copper Paper tube caps as I think them very good capacitors as I have said before. Duelund VSF is just that much better. |
Took my old Linn Karik CD player to the friend who bought the Khorns after hearing my system.
It has been a long time and many Duelund parts and my speakers sound nothing like original.
What I wanted to know was how does an old $4 (I think) Cd player compare to a new $1k player.
He has one of those new OPPO SE Blu-ray players. First time I have heard one.
It did not sound good to me on CD (forward) but when given a Blu-ray???? Hmmmm? I have asked him to bring it over to hear on my system for better reference.
Anyone heard these Blu-ray players? Clearly the format is promising. |
After being not really impressed with the Bealtes Mono CD box set, I just bought Jimi Hendrix on vinyl that just came out (2010) and it seems not bad to me on first listen.
A little harshness in the upper freq.
I would like to know what equipment they used?
Duelund you really need to upgrades to vintage equipment. A vintage tube mixing board with your caps would be awesome. These caps need to be in professional gear. |
JohnK posted a long time ago that he felt capacitors were not the most important and transducers were.
John makes a good point as it is the transducer that actually makes the sound so of course this part is going to matter! I was only pointing out how big the sound difference is with Duelund caps.
I was out listening to the friend who has Khorns. I have been a little hesitant to post as he may see this and I did not want to upset him. He has different (cheaper) driver not the Alnico (Western Electric based) ones in the older Klipsch.
His speakers do not even sound anywhere near the same. Is it the Duelund caps, inductors and Silver wire? How much is the transducer and ferrite magnet? I can not say?
We used my CD player and he had the same amp less Duelund and Jensen caps.
I have not been doing much tests lately as I have been replacing vinyl. I bought Jimi Hendrix albums just released. |
Power Supply
I am looking into the Jensen 4 pole. |
Power Supply
I had my tech guy do a partial power supply rebuild on one of my EL84 amps using ASC poly caps in the power supply. He rolled his eyes at me even worrying about the "sound" of something not in the signal path.
The amp had a hum after that and he could not hear on his test speakers.
I only used it for a few hours or so. I thought he had changed some of the coupling caps to poly as the amp sounded very different than every one of the vintage amps I have. I took off the bottom plate to find out he did not change any coupling caps.
The amp had more bass than the old vintage electro caps but sounded slower and had change in tone. I did not like it.
Can power supply caps affect sound? Not just smothness and power but tone? |
Back testing Jensen vs. Duelund as coupling caps.
Looking at just getting complete Duelund in the signal path.
I had taken out the amp with the Jensen electrolytic. Not knocking Jensen as the coupling caps are pretty good, but I do not care for the electrolyic cap. No Black Gate WKZ to compare too.
Part of me would really like to try a paper in oil for the first cap in the power supply. Just do not want to spend a bucket load of money on a Duelund just to hear a theory.
Might just finish off full Duelund signal path and call it a day. (except first cap in power supply) |
Power supply
I bought several vintage tube amps (all same brand) for tests.
I started all mods on the worst sounding of them which was my Fisher 500c. The reason for this if I messed something up it was the worst sounding amp anyway.
Now after listening to the EL84 (all vintage) the 500c hammers it with all Jensen (copper paper tube) and Duelund VSF caps. So my worst, now my best. (by far)
How did they compare to new? I had new SS (pre and amp 10k here) and ALL of the vintage amps sounded better. (wayyyyy quieter) My worst amp (the most $$$) has been long sold. To my ears it was the best SS I could find in my budget.
What about a new tube amp?
Not a bad idea at all, but I would like Duelund caps all through out. (they are clearly audible over even Jensen) A top notch power supply, Jensen, Black Gate etc. Silver Duelund solid core wire would be nice as well. Problem an amp like this is far from cheap!
Hmmmmm No cheap answers. |
Took apart a vintage Electrolytic.
Just an aluminum foil wrapped in paper. Almost looks like one could make it themselves. Nothing really to it. |
SS vs. Tube rectifier.
Looking for info on this. To me there is for sure something natural about the sound tube rectifier.
Even the (SS based power supply) amp with all the Duelund and Jensen caps sounds somewhat mechanical (although quieter) compared to all vintage cap EL84.
It did before the caps went in as well so no fault of Duelund or Jensen. (the SS rectified sounds wayyy better than it did but still mechanical)
SS rectified sounds more mechanical to me. (maybe Black Gates in the power supply solve this problem?) Tube rectified has different timing.
The question is why??
Diodes?
Big Electrolytic power supply??
Of all the amps from the same company the simplest one with the fewest electrolytic in the power supply sounds best. |
Bought Morgan Jones book Valve Amplifiers.
I need a better understanding of what is going on in the power supply. |
Morgan Jones quote
"If the power supply is poor, then the most beautifully designed amplifier will be junk".
I guess we know how he feels about power supplies. He was complaining how some commercial companies treat the power supply as an afterthought. |
I have been checking around for a WKZ Black Gate to compare against a VK series that is all that is left at Partsconnexion with the phase out.
I contact Audio Note by chance to see if they would sell one and Peter e-mailed back.
Peter said (and I asked him if I could quote him)
"Hate to say this but it is a waste of a good Black Gate to put it in with a solid state rectifier"!
I thought it was too funny.
Maybe I was wasting my time (and $$$) trying to get an SS rectified amp to sound as good as an EL84. One can clearly hear that a tube rectified is more musical to me.
We know where Peter stands. |
Jensen Electroltyic caps in. I have a Black Gate to use as comparison.
(starting to put in tomorrow)
I was talking to Peter Qvortrup about power supply caps. His take Polyester sounds fine 250-450v and polypropylene does not. (can not argue with that) In higher voltage 1kv both fine but polyester better.
He did mention that the diodes are very noisy and have a jagged wave form. So not clean power supply. (but suspects this only part of the problem)
I do not mean to say the Duelund/Jensen capped amp does not sound excellent, it does! It is the timing is different/natural in the tube rectified amp. I fully expect the tube rectified EL 84 to sound of course excellent with the Duelund caps. |
Morgan Jones on Capacitors
"This can be further generalized that high quality capacitors tend to be physically large for their value of capacitance".
I remember noting this a long time ago comparing Sonicap vs. Mundorf Supreme that the Supreme had much more dynamics, of course be much larger in size.
This same effect was also noted comparing Duelund VSF vs. CAST.
I will be comparing in direct comparison Ampohm Copper Foil in Mylar vs. vintage Vishay Foil in Mylar. (likely Aluminum) I had noted that they sounded extremely alike by memory. If the new (and much larger) Ampohm is better and logic says it should be being new and copper and bigger. I am going to replace all of the smaller value caps with Ampohm. I would love to use Duelund everywhere but everyone knows why not. $$$ |
Doing the Ampohm vs. vintage comparision now.
Ampohm is almost exactly 2x as large in volume. So in theory should have more dynamics.
Initial first minutes is like I thought close to vintage. I commented before I did not know if I could tell the difference. It is not like Jensen or Duelund.
The Jensen Electrolytic (not yet in) concerns me vs. vintage as the vintage is at least 10x the volume in size. Will the small one sound better? The Black Gate is much larger than Jensen but not as big a vintage. |
Ampohm Copper Foil vs. Vintage
I thought they sounded very similiar till hearing them in direct comparion at the same time. The Vishay ERO FOL II sounds better. The Ampohm has a distinct tilt in to the upper mid range in sound. I do not care for it at all. Might work for you if you wanted that effect?
On to compare Jensen Electrolytic vs. vintage. |
