Thanks Irish65
I believe my father actually has one of those tools.
I did check out the WBT solder and assume it is similiar to the Mundorf Silver I have. |
One speakers woofer wired with Duelund wire.
Sounds weird at first. (like out of phase) I will do some checking to make sure all is wired up correct. Maybe I am too tired?
Klipcsh wired the woofer with cheap lamp cord and cheap connection to the woofer through a screw?! Just a regular aluminum screw? |
Thanks guys
I should not have made it sound negative.
I was shocked at how much quieter the sound was? It was almost like after the CAST cap went in I checked the tweeter to see if it was working.
It was more than just wire as I set the caps on cork and removing the crazy screw!?
What was shocking was I was thinking it was going to be a bass volume difference and it was midrange and high freq noise reduction like when the Duelund inductor went in that was extremely evident.
I can't wait to wire up the rest of the drivers.
Irish65 is there much difference in the Duelund line? Should one use Silver for the mids and highs or just the highs. Any advice?
I should have done this LONG ago as the wire was just sitting here.
|
Irish65
Can you fill me in?
The differences etc. I am quite shocked to be honest.
Sherod the Duelund wire is solid copper 14.5 guage and feels almost wet. It is covered in cotton. The Silver is the best seller and of course costs more and is 18awg foil. I am very curious to what Irish has found out.
Has me thinking about this static on the signal. I was not expecting things to get much quieter with 6 feet or so of wire going to the woofer. Now of course (in my case) this might be caused by the silly screw or sitting the caps on cork? |
Irish
Does that mean the copper wire will sound better due to being solid? (no resonance)
I seem to have read somewhere else about the foil picking up noise? All the effort of CAST to dampen the wire (in the cap) and then nothing in the hook-up wire. This is inconsistent. |
Irish
It sounds like you are being evasive?
What is the sound difference?
It is the Silver foil that should resonate more? I do not get the analogy? CAST has less resonance like solid copper wire??? I can see the case of foil being a great wire but could vibrate, could it not? |
Irish
I do not mean it negative on being evasive. You must have some feeling as to what you like/disliked over the other copper wire. Yes I really like Duelund products but also do like the VSF line. It is true though that CAST goes the extra mile on high pressure dampening and then you run a foil wire with no dampening. I mean a case for logic could be made for the solid copper on that basis alone. I am not saying it better is as I have not heard either Silver wire yet. |
Irish
You are right at this point what is a couple of hundred more? I am just going to have to find out which wire. Duelund has always been correct so far so likely are on silver.
So far it is a slam dunk no brainer on new wire. It was something I thought about in the future for an amp. The future is going to happen much sooner. |
Irish great idea. 2.0 you say ouch! |
Tom
I did not take it as criticism of Duelund. I took it as a very good question of how to control resonance in a foil wire. Assuming I fully understand what you were saying?
On the other side of this my 11yr and 9yr could easily hear the difference from just the woofer and tweeter being wired with Duelund. (plus one cap in the amp) I will often ask a non audiophile person who does not know (what has been done) if they can hear a difference just to make sure it is not me.
In this thread one of things I was hoping to discuss is what mattered for the $$$ and the $40 of Duelund wire made more difference than when I bi-amp my previous system with a second $5,000 (Can$) amp!
I would say the wire has been the biggest bang for the buck improvement. |
I do have one question for Duelund as well. Yes the wire sounds excellent being coated in in silk oil but does oil not dry out in time???
What happens then?
I am literally back to listening to one speaker the difference is so big now. I still have some small sections to replace as well! So will get even better.
I am for sure doing the entire chain in Duelund wire the amp everything. |
Thanks Duelund
Well most of the speaker is all Duelund wire. (couple little bits to replace)
Duelund is known for their natural sound. Why?
I think Duelund has a signature of lower resonance deeper fuller tones. At first their products might come across as darker. They seem to not exaggerate the highs. They change the sound stage. To me this is for the better. The high res parts bring forward instruments that give high freq. High res can also give the impression of false detail.
The solid copper wire is sharper yet smoother than the stranded wire. It does bring forward the sound stage somewhat.
A long time ago when I had one crossover of foil (vintage) and one of poly (Sonicaps) you could not listen to both speakers at the same time. It was like they were out of phase. It is like that with one speaker wired with Duelund one with cheap wire but not to the same extent.
It has had me thinking is this caused by the slowing of the signal from plastic or thinner wire or the stranded wire? (or all three)
The vintage wired speaker might sound Ok at one freq then a slow mess below. (say on Jazz) The acoustic bass player say is playing with intentions on the Duelund wired and lazy, sleepy on the vintage.
The Duelund wired speaker much better but could still be better. Jazz is tough and I am still running Linn K20? 12 guage stranded wire to the speakers.
The vintage speaker has more of droning sound? Slowness of the wire? |
I am starting to wonder if I have not gone to far.
The Duelund wire (Copper) was great for the woofer. I am now not so sure for the mid's and tweeter. I sounds quiet mellow and dark. For the first time I have turned up the treble. It is just hard to believe how much different wire can sound.
I can see now why Irish says I need to try for myself. I am curious to what Silver will sound like? Expectation may be copper to the woofer and Silver elsewhere?
I would like the highs a little hotter. |
I have researching wire. I never expected it to sound so different???
I mentioned earlier that the two speakers Duelund Solid Copper wired and stranded wire do not sound good together. It is the stranded wire that sounds faster. (tilt of the sound to upper freq) The Duelund thicker wire for the tweeter and mid range is quiet but tilts the sound down. The speaker sounds darker, maybe slower. The thick solid gauge seems to block or slow the highest freq?
Although the very low noise is welcome the speaker moves from realistic to more hi-fi sounding.
I have never heard stranded vs. solid. I thought it was going to be like just gauge change. (solid is much smoother)
It feels like you can hear the signal jump all over the stranded wire. The cheap thinner wire might sound faster but adds substantial distortion. You get a hard grainy sound. (nasally sound)
I have some Duelund Silver Foil coming.
Will the Silver be worth it? I am curious to hear if the skin affect is real?
I know the North Creek inductor while having good points was for sure noisier than Duelund's foil type. Frank said Duelund's original wire wound inductor was not so great either? Mapleshade Audio and so many others claim great things of foil and for sure silver foil. |
The Silver foil wire is in.
It is smaller width wise than I expected and thicker?
I am quite curious as to how this sounds. The Copper Duelund wire is the first Duelund product I have not be thrilled with. I think of it like the North Creek or Mundorf Silver in Oil. It has weaknesses to me.
Round wire sounds slow in the high freq. This gives the impression of not sounding real. I am starting to think Pierre (Maple Shades) might be right. I had wondered since the vintage amp was hooked up. A thin power cord compared to most today 28 guage inductor, lamp cord wiring, cheap speaker wire (first time I heard it) and yet it sounded realistic???
I prefer the cheap flawed lamp cord for the mid and high freq. to the Duelund Solid copper.
Maybe Paul Klipsch was right when he said anything more than lampcord was *ullshit! He would have been comparing to larger guage stranded wire. I always thought he was being just cheap. I wonder if this article was wrote by Frank? Tannoy Westminsters? One sure needs an open mind looking at paper thin wire.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0702/Rosenberg.alphacore.7n2.html
I have also read Silver has 7% less resistance but some doubt this can be heard. 7% is quite a bit to me? |
I have wired up the tweeter only with 28" (2) lengths of Silver Duelund wire.
If someone thinks all wire sounds that same that is crazy! You can hear in 5 seconds the difference. The signal is much hotter and more vivid. Is it better?
As a product much easier than the solid copper to work with. As far as what was mentioned earlier about resonance it is hard to imagine much of that as it is soft product.
I am not going to say much right away as I did change my mind on the Duelund copper.
This afternoon I will wire up the midrange. |
Midrange wired to Silver last night. It did not get hotter like the tweeter.
I know some will laugh at this but putting in 18 guage Duelund Silver brought the tonal balance back to around the same as the lamp cord. Which might not be as crazy as it sounds as lamp cord was 18 guage. (I think)
One thing for sure that I did not understand at the start of this is thicker guage is for sure slower. Thicker guage is not all upside. I thought replacing all of the vintage parts with thicker guage (more expensive) would be better. The manufacturer only used thin to save money. (maybe they did)
There is so much we do not understand about electricity.
As far as some saying that Silver having 7% less resistance that is not the reason for the sound difference. I have (coincidently) added around 7% to the length of the wires going to the tweeter and the sound is still different.
Silver is much more vivid. |
Thanks Ait
I was hoping to just get the Duelund Copper thinking it would be a good choice since all my caps are Duelund copper, but did not work out that way?
I have never heard Litz wire and likely will not so can not comment.
I can say so far so good with the Duelund Silver. I still have a couple of short pieces of Duelund copper to replace with Silver. So will wait to comment but can say the Silver wire makes the cheap copper sound like there is flat spots in freq response. Strange effect? Cheap copper seems to favour certain freq? Something I was not aware the wire was doing? I like the Silver much better but am not sure of all the reasons of why? I knew why I did not like Duelund copper in the mids and highs. (really slowed the sound down)
I want to make sure it is real as this stuff is not cheap! |
Duelund
I think you are right.
I am glad you are making a copper version of flat wire. (I would not call it foil as it is not that thin)
I have the feeling that is more important (shape) than the type of metal of the wire? Both copper and Silver have a signature?
I would like to replace my speaker wire (12 gauge Linn) stranded with some flat wire. (I think) At the Silver cost it is not happening.
So is it with wire the thinner and wider the better?
Do you get the best of both world's speed and low freq? |
JohnK
I may be crazy, not sure? Is Burt doppenburg still not using the Lascala design? for something? If the design was so bad it would long be forgotten. 60+ years of continuous production is likely for a reason?
I am still using 3/4" birch plywood?
The midrange is the Klipsch dual phase Alnico driver? (only produced for a short time) Known to be the best that at least they ever produced.
I have Alnico tweeters as well. (to be installed)
I can not say compared to your horns John but have found capacitors and wire for that matter to make a huge difference. I know Arthur Salvatore considers Khorns the best vintage speaker ever and amongst the best ever made and a fantastic bargin in the U.S.. I can say mine sound massively better than ANY Klipsch ever produced. (with the Deulund caps inductors and now Duelund Silver wire)
Best speakers ever? I do not know? Certainly not the best looking. Those vintage Tannoy's sure have a fan base? (Alnico magnet ones)
As far as improvements I have found only Duelund caps and inductors to be hands down better (than the vintage parts) and there silver wire. (still testing it) |
I really like the Duelund Silver wire.
Took me a while to figure out the why? I was expecting it to be better (as it should at many, many x the $) but it is better in a way I did not expect.
The Duelund Silver flat wire makes the cheap stranded wire speaker sound like 3 drivers. The cheap wire will favour what ever instrument that is at it's target range as a driver. Like 3 target zones.
I can not hear any of that with the Silver wire. I really notice this at low volumes (the lower the volume the easier it is to tell) as a seamless speaker with Silver and three chopped upped drivers with stranded copper. |
Been watching the Olympics as they were here.
Undertow nice to see you have liked the Duelund's.
The next Duelund cap should be along shortly for the amp. I am just kind of curious to hear Duelund vs. Jensen. |
Johnk
It all started in confusion as to why the Klipsch sounded much more life like than my modern gear? It was a second system and I was selling the Klipsch when a guy brought by a vintage tube amp and I went Holy Smokes that sounds life like. If was the first time I had heard an all foil system.
I decided to keep them and replace the worn out foil caps. The funny thing was as soon a modern poly caps went in they sound like modern speakers and the qualities I liked were gone. A fake plastic sound. I thought horns were the reason they sounded the way they did? Then came better caps (Mundorf Supreme and Silver in Oil) better dynamics but still plastic sounding. Duelund was only used because they were the only parts I found to be clearly better than original. I agree with Steen Duelund when he said he could clearly hear that the Jensen caps were much more life like than ANY poly cap. This was when he had nothing to sell.
At this point it my curiousity that was really peaked. As much for my own understanding. You might be right about different drivers etc. but many of the faults you heard on the Khorns are the crossover parts and internal wiring. Horns will amplify (as you of course know) any resonance of the caps into a drone.
The alternative after hearing Duelund parts is to either buy new speakers with Duelund parts and for sure that will not be cheap! To me after what I heard it is an absolute must for Duelund in the crossover. So any choice of speaker will start with as few as possible parts or one will be broke. (or at least I will)
So it comes back to what is a better deal? One can take their pick of almost any speaker used and gut the crossover and I bet in every case it comes out as a fantastic deal.
I agree the Khorns are a great deal in N.A. 60 years of production and still making them keeps used prices down.
I don't know but a vintage tube amp point to point recapped with Jensen Copper Paper tube or Duelund, re wired likely with Duelund Silver or copper flat wire likely around $1500 in total. (unless of course more Duelund caps)
I will have around $3k (roughly I think maybe a little more) in parts for the speakers that I already owned.
I have wasted a LOT more money in Audio than I have now and have not even come close in sound by light years. The humiliation that the vintage tube amp gave my modern gear has made me more tight fisted with the $. |
Sorry
That of course should say louder not loader. Time for bed. |
Sherod
Where did you buy them from? I might have to try a pair?
I only have the vintage foil in mylar and they have that "see through" sound so know what you are talking about.
Could you give a real close listen to see if there is a tilt. The vintage foil in mylar favours high freq giving the impression of clarity. Mine of course could be worn out of suffer from being physically too small. We know Steen did like vintage caps and used them till he came up with his own.
I find myself focusing on high freq instruments (cymbals etc) with the vintage caps. The Duelund/Jensen combination on the same CD of Jazz it is Miles and John Coltrane and the whole group. I really like the balance (Duelund/Jensen) but do know what Tony meant by "see though" and it is inviting. The cost difference is very big as well! |
Sherod
That is indeed high praise of the Ampohm. I seem to recall reading about them in another thread and them getting high praise. I will do some checking.
I may try some as comparison. I have a few vintage amps and all caps do wear out. |
JohnK
"Since so many variables these tests to me are useless".
That is exactly why I started this thread there is not a number to put on sound of a cap. That being said the general rule of thumb is that Duelund sounds very natural to all who have heard them on this thread or Tony Gee or Tempo's cap review all done on different speakers. So to say the tests are useless is not very accurate at all.
There are of course variables from one human to another. I have mentioned on here before I found Tempo's review to be closer to my own ears anyway.
A quote from Tony Gee
"A hi-Fi system is a very complex sum of many variables, a capacitor is only one part of that total, so depending on implementation things may vary a little. On the other hand you can be assured that capacitor A with a 6 point rating won't "beat" capacitor B with a 10 point rating".
I for one did not find the Silver in Oil rated 10.5 better than the regular Mundorf Supreme rated 9 or at least I did not like the Silver in Oils flaws. Tempo is also on the same side.
Tempo said also a Duelund VSF was 2 or 3x better than a Mundorf Supreme at 6x the cost. Another accurate statement. Is it worth it? Only if you are keeping the speakers.
Now to the Ampohm caps very interesting. They are the OE for Audio Note, correct? So not surprised they are good caps as well and seem to be very good for the $. I found the vintage foil in Mylar to have very good tone.
|
JohnK
That being said I do believe DIY can be very time consuming and one needs to set a $$$ limit and be done and stick with it.
I am going to finish very soon and will likely be able to stick with what I have done. (I hope) That is where the discipline will have to come in. I am very happy with what I have done (best money in Audio I have spent) and how it sounds (the best I have ever heard so far) but it is the how much more can one get that has to be resisted at some point.
I am going to the local (50 miles away) very high end store to compare to their best systems when all done which is very soon. More of how did my $$$ get spent and was it after all a good deal relatively. |
In many hours of listening to the Silver Duelund wire I really like it.
The Silver wire does not favour any one freq and is very smooth.
The only comparison though has been the Duelund copper and the cheap stock wire. The cheap stock wire is frail sounding and tilts to certain freq. The Duelund copper recesses the high freq but is quiet.
I agree with Duelund the copper is good for the Woofer where I have it and Silver everywhere else. Silver might be better for the woofer as well but copper is cheaper. |
In my confusing post what I meant was for the people who like a "high resonating" cap to exaggerate sounds you get that but it is not done uniformly but at the frequency that the cap resonates at the expense of balance.
In doing each stage (of comparison) over a period of sometimes months it is always the lower resonating parts that interest me in the end. |
I suppose I could Irish65.
I am going to be ordering some more Silver. I have only tried the .5 have you tried them all? Is there a big difference?
I am waiting on another cap from Duelund for the amp.
I can see why some like the mylar sound though as well as that is what was in the vintage amp. It is somewhat sharper than Duelund or Jensen which could be said to be creamier. I love that Duelund super natural sound but it is relaxed and the mylar caps that I have heard sharper in the high freq. I found this sharpness at least in the vintage to bring forward high freq sounds which sounded like more detail but I was sure the cymbals were not supposed to be loader than Norah Jones? I may try the Ampohm as they do get good ratings.
Sherod have you compared?
Tony Gee
"The polyester-in-oil is very rich and extremely good in retrieving ambient information such as room or hall acoustics".
Some have commented on the cost of all this which is substantial. On a complete sidenote. I am thinking of selling off the Lp12 and the VPI record cleaning machine at some point. I only got into vinyl as digital drove me crazy on SS. Since getting tubes and then Duelund parts in the crossover and Jensen and Duelund caps in the amp I can not hear ANY digital harshness.
The only downside with all this Duelund is it has really, really revealed vinyl wear. 80's vinyl is just junk for the most part wear is just awful. The good vinyl still sounds very good but the collection is shrinking fast. Selling off at least another 150+ lp's that I went through today. I was kind of sad and know why people made copies and did not play their vinyl at one time. The older '60's vinyl is much better.
I may go with just one digital front end as I do not feel the need for vinyl anymore.
So selling the LP12 in the future (which was about loaded) and the VPI will about cover the cost of Duelund parts. I am listening to 80-90% digital now and used to be 90% vinyl. |
Thanks Sherod
The tube store is only one hour from where I live. I was on looking since my post. I will put in an order for some in the morning.
The only thing is I do not see below .1uf? in that style.
I have always wondered what a new Mylar would sound like? Will it solve the weakness of the vintage ones? |
Just ordered the Ampohm Paper in Oil Copper type.
I tried to get the Mylar but not available in my size. Tony Gee gave the Aluminum a 12- so one can assume the Copper is above that.
Should be in tomorrow or next day. |
My choice of amps right now are a completely vintage EL84 or one channel in a vintage amp (7591) all Jensen Copper Paper Tube and one Duelund VSF. The other channel all Jensen and one vintage cap with one speaker still wired non Duelund.
I can listen to the vintage EL84 amp for a short time and then miss the bottom end. (nice mid range though) My top choice is Duelund wired speaker all Silver except woofer which is copper and all Jensen/Duelund VSF in the amp. I so far have always come back to that and will listen to one speaker every time by the hour not missing the second speaker. Jensen (Copper Paper Tube) has great bottom end!
I am going to see how the Ampohm Copper works out. I can not deny a 1/8 price (over Duelund) (1/3 over Jensen) is enticing. No matter what the Ampohm will go to the FM section of a Fisher if it does not work out. I have not seen a case where a vintage cap could compete with a new "good" cap.
In the end I think it will be a modified EL84. I liked the EL84 much better than the 7591 before mods. I felt no worry moding the 7591 as I did not like it anyway. |
I have an Ampohm Copper installed and is in direct competition with a Duelund VSF. The rest of the caps on both sides are Jensen Copper Paper Tube.
The Ampohm's are smaller than the Jensen's by a fair bit but twice as long as the 630 volt vintage and much bigger than the 400v cap it replaced. |
So far in just a few hours the Ampohm sounds remarkably similiar to the vintage Vishay caps.
Smooth mid range.
I will be ordering the rest of the Silver wire to compare on an exact basis Ampohm vs. Duelund VSF cap. So far not |
Sorry should say
So far not even close to the bottom end even of the Jensen Copper Paper Tube type. I do like these caps (nice mid range) and are good for the $$$ but Jensen Copper Paper Tube competition or Duelund VSF??? I can't see it.
I am actually shocked at how much more bass and dynamics are in the Duelund (just one cap) and Duelund wired speaker.
Sherod I wish I could use your VSF caps!
Early next week the rest of the wire will be in for a fair test and some hours on the Ampohm as well. |
Irish65
I will give it a try. You could be right as the (flat) Silver wire was much better in the mid's and highs so why not the woofer?
Have you sold your Duelund parts yet? (the ones you were not using)
Can you fill me in on the difference in the Silver wire range? |
The test I have been very excited about was to use the Silver wire as speaker wire.
That means I have a few feet of copper in the amp. A vintage Autoformer in the speaker and the rest of the parts are Jensen Copper Paper tube and Duelund VSF in the amp all Duelund VSF and CAST in the speaker and Silver wire. (with Copper to the woofer)
My IC's are Linn.
I want to know if speaker wire is in order. |
Sherod
It is interesting this top end airiness. I have given this much thought. I agree with Steen this is added by the capacitor. The VSF even does it, at least compared to the CAST. Part of this resonance we are used too though, so it seems normal. On different music I have asked myself is that normal for the cymbals to be in front of (and louder) than lead singer? The answer of course is no. Yet the cymbals sound so real on the high resonance foil cap.
Duelund VSF does this much less than for sure Ampohm or any other foil cap save Jensen Copper Paper Tube. (that I have heard) Nothing against Ampohm at all as thetubestore is selling them as replacement for vintage parts and they are excellent for that application.
I would say that Tony Gee seems to like caps that tilt the sound upward or adds air? Not saying this is wrong. Tempo likes the Mundorf Supreme better than the Silver in Oil and I agree. Of course I think they were using vintage Tannoy's and I am using vintage Klipsch so both horn speakers which do not like or need a tilt?
Irish did you come from stranded plastic wrapped speaker wire? (before Duelund) I may upgrade the speaker wire before going above .5 in the crossover. ($$$ you know) I am going to try the Duelund as speaker wire before installing in the speaker. This for sure has peaked my interest.
Sherod
I know what you are feeling nothing like spending money on a lateral move or something not as good. I have a use for the Ampohm so not frustrated. Have you tried Duelund wire in the speaker? For me the copper Duelund for the woofer has been one of the biggest bangs for the buck. Might brighten your day on "upgrades". |
Sherod
That' good on the wire.
More listening tests on the Ampohm vs. Duelund. (still waiting for more Silver wire) I just installed a fresh set of (output) tubes for the coming final tests.
It is unbelievable the difference in one cap in the amp. The Ampohm has it's positives. The Ampohm has what Tony calls "see through" this is in the mid's and highs in my mind. The Duelund cap might as well be on a different planet as far as tight tuneful bass. The Ampohm a sloppy mess at the bottom.
As soon as the back ordered wire (and VSF cap) get here I will give another listen but at this point for the life of me can not understand Ampohm at 12 and VSF at 12.5?????
The Ampohm is wispy and the mind focuses on higher freq. (where it does sound good) when the bottom is so loose. The Duelund is thick solid and has an extremely solid foundation that allows you to enjoy "all" that is going on.
I just do not get it, to me this is not even close?
I look forward to what Jimmy has to say about the Duelund CAST Silver.
Once the wire and VSF are here I am going to do a Jensen Copper Paper Tube vs. Duelund VSF. I expect a much closer competition than vs. Ampohm. I agree with Jimmy on what I have heard so far those both are the top caps. |
Still waiting???
Parts just not here yet. |
Parts came in today.
I am testing sound wise the more broke in Ampohm. I will test exactly when the silver wire is installed in second speaker. Listening to Tchaikovsky just a huge difference.
On Jimmy's website there is a comment from a new CAST owner saying
"It sounds dull,no dimension, small soundstage.
Thanks,"
I can understand where this person is coming from the CAST are a shockingly low resonance cap. They do not add anything I can hear of, to spice or colour things. I actually went up to hear if the tweeter was working. (and this was compared to VSF)
The Duelund parts have eliminated a few hundred pieces of vinyl I had. They can make the upper freq so clear it amazing but this will also show when the source is not good. You have no doubt.
What is good about low resonance cap.
1 Very dynamic.
2 Quiet, much less noise
3 Tight, accurate, sound with solid bass.
4 Instrument separation and accuracy
What is not so good about low resonance cap
1 reveals upstream weakness. (such as worn vinyl or digital harshness)
2 No echo to smooth out sounds
3 Does not give a added air to sound like high res caps.
The huge downside with high res caps is the resonance, yes can add fullness to the sound of some instruments but this is not done uniformly just at the freq of the resonance. This is done at the expense of upper and lower freq. in my experience.
I can not get the stock wire out fast enough. So it will be out tomorrow. |
Congratulations by the way Frederik and no need to hurry with any answers I understand the busy time.
Thanks |
Sorry Frederik (and Tom)
If I have caused confusion. I assume you mean this quote?
"The huge downside with high res caps is the resonance, yes can add fullness to the sound of some instruments but this is not done uniformly just at the freq of the resonance"
I should have said
"The huge downside with "high resonance" caps is the resonance can add fullness to the sound but this is not done uniformly but at the freq of resonance.
I totally agree with you both high "resonance" is "low resolution" by the addition to what it adds.
Sorry Frederik (and Tom) for any confusion in my wording.
I meant it exactly as you both have said. |
First Impressions of Silver wire and this is from memory of CD I know well.
Bass player (Miles Davis) sounds much faster. |
Sherod
I have been using the Silver wire that is going to go into my speaker as hook-up wire so have not tested Ampohm vs. Duelund as I have only one speaker.
There is a lot of speed in the Silver wire.
Initial impression are
Very Fast, clear, detailed, quiet, but at first somewhat forward as Silver does sound hotter more like more lit up room. Not harsh bright but not copper dark. So still trying to make sense of it?
The comparision wire is 12 guage stranded copper Linn speaker wire. So completely different in stranded vs. solid, copper vs. Silver, plastic vs. silk cotton.
It seems to be relaxing somewhat (as you have said break in) or it is me getting used to it. |
I am going to do some more listening but at this time do not think the Duelund Silver is where to spend the money.
Yes the Silver is better but I found replacing the speaker caps much more bang for the $$$. The speaker internal wire to be as well. Each cap in the amp was very noticable as well.
I might come back to speaker wire or look at Duelund flat copper when they come out with it.
Since this thread is also about bang for the buck it really only makes sense that the caps are more bang for the $$$. Caps wear out and Duelund and Jensen were wayyy bigger than what was there so you got a dynamic improvement as well.
The Duelund wire (Silver) is faster, more coherent, smoother. Still going to do more comparison but not a jaw dropping difference like tweeter caps. |
Stranded copper vs. Duelund Silver.
The Duelund wire sounds much quieter.
I have heard some think copper warmer than silver. Well it is slower so the bass more bloated. Does this give the sense of warmth?
The first thing I noticed with Silver was the speed. Bass much faster.
Stranded speaker wire is the same as stranded hook up wire favours one freq over another. (not sure why)
Spent a fair bit of time on this to see what to do but must move on soon. |
Irish
I agree with bottom end being very clear with tone as well. When listening to stranded copper all you think of is cloudy.
Ait
I think you are right on the stranded copper wire being the problem. For $$$ reasons I would like to hear the Duelund flat copper wire as speaker wire. I agree I do not know how much of the sound difference is Silver or stranded I suspect stranded. What is Duelund copper price compared to Litz?
Stranded wire favours a freq so you tend to listen at that freq but flat wire is solid from top to bottom. On classical music the difference is huge! You hear the orchestra and all the tones with stranded you get the instrument at the freq the stranded wire favours.
Ait
The next thing for sure I am going to do is Silver wire in the amp. I suspect (think) it will be very noticable on the phone stage and pre amp? (and at very little cost) |
