Cables more hype than value?


What are the opinions out there?
tobb

Showing 31 responses by bo1972

During the time I visited many people at home I was amazed about the poor level in sound many people have. They spend often a lot of money and they still play at a low level. Often they are not happy with it, and it is clear why!!
There amps are 2-dimensional. At shows there sources are often used with Naim amps. So you get a 2-dimensional image. But it is possible that there sources can give a 3-dimensional image. It is very easy to test. use amps and speakers who can give a deep and wide stage connect the source and you know it. We are not talking about something what is dificult to get. You only need to use amps, sources and speakers which can give depth and wide. It is that simple!
A source is able to break the 3-D image. What I did was using speakers and amps which cab give a deep and wide stage. After this you can test sources how they buid a stage. So you easilly can hear if they are 2 or 3 dimensional. It is quite easy. And yess there are big differences between all the brands. Testing speakers is the same. Use amps which can give a deep stage and compare speakers how they build a stage. Even with cables it is the same. For example; I sold a lot of Nordost for over 9 years of time. So I did hundreds od tests with Nordost cables. So it was easilly to hear and compare with others how they react.The biggest advantage of all these tests is that I can bring in missing properties/talents which should be in a set which are not there. In 10 seconds I know of every system what is there and what is missing. I can even describe the stage and were instruments and voices are standing. I also can hear the sound in those 10 seconds. And how big instruments and voices are projected. And how the low freq. are and if there are any layers within the low freq. And also how much resolution/information there is. Most people who use audio as a hobby often can hear one of two parts of all the parts were you Judge a system for. This is the main reason why often there ssytems miss essential parts which should be there. Tje nice thing about cables is that you can bring in new properties/talents which are not there.That is why I love cables and what you can change in every system.
These days I even can get a stunning 3-dimensional image out of a Onkyo TX-NR525 of 449 dollar. Also with this amp I can use my way of measuremt to get a lot more dynamic and resolution out of the amp. The fun thing is to give even people who spend less this experience. I can influence the stage of a system by measuring. I use Audysseu and Pro particulary from a highend perspective. For me it is very esasy to outperform any Naim at an audio show. I love use a level which is superior to any system on a show. That why I was the best at a big audio show this year. I am a perfectionist and I Always want to win. It is that simple!!
What I said earlier; I talked to many Naim owners. Most of them had no experience or knowledge with depth. Wenn instruments and voices play fully loose from a speaker and also in depth, every person understand in a few seconds why it is far superior to any 2-dimensional system.
We are talking about Naim amps and sources. I do not know the cables of Naim. The only thing what I can say is that I never tested stunning cables from manufacturers who make amps and sources. Some were ok and sometimes good, but never stunning. In 1999 I bought the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 300 poweramp. I was at a store were I auditioned the Nautilus 802 with my amp, pre amp and Meridian 500/566 combi. They had the best Naim power,pre and source at that moment. My combi blow away the naim set with ease. I never forget his face. The other day he became Musical Fidelity dealer. The distributer said it to me. I knew why!!!
Tubes are like wine, wenn they are older the musicality is getting better with more emotion!!
Yess it is. A few clients came to me. They said: this is the end of a cd player. Why for god sake you would buy a cd player? It is Always nice to hear new things of your beloved recordings. The 384 kHz dac makes the stage wider and deeper. The control and sound realism is stunning. And after 2 weeks it is stil working!!!
The old 802 was in dynamics with Naim quite good to be unnest. But the stage was too flat. And the Nu-Vista was superior in individual focus and also in resolution compared to the Naim. 802N is these days a far outdated speaker in every way. I modified the way of measuring a lot with Audyssey pro. Not only I measure at total different places and hights. WE also modified the stand for the microphone. This also gives a superior level how it can be measured normally. With the 5509 and Audyssey Pro I blew away many expensive pre amps. People don't understand it, but hear the stunning results. And this is what matters. I can think 3-4 steps further than any other people in this business. I have proven this many times since I do this work at many situations. I used the Behringer in the past as well. We sold it. It is far inferior to the level what I can achieve with Audyssey pro. I blew away my old Pass Labs XP-20 in dynamics, speed, drive, depth, wide, resolution and individual focus of instruments and voices. I hope I will get the option to blow away every set at a show in the US. It is on my list!!
3D has nothing to do with 2 or more channels. Wenn I play 2 or 5 channels I have a lot of depth. And also with 2 and 5.1 I play beside my speakers and far behind. The stunning thing is that I have a 3D image with 2 and with 5 channels. During the show this year I used both 2 channel and 5.1 channel. I had a person with a Pass Labs 2.5 pre amp. He was also amazed that I could blow his pre amp away that easy. People with very expensive highend really f... hate it. But I love it!! Wenn I play stereo I never use more than 2 frontspeakers. Stereo is still the main thing for me. I only use 5.1 for bluray movies and music. Wenn you love music stereo is the most important. And no I would not play this on more speakers than my front speakers ( and my subwoofer)
What I said before I Always test all amp if they are 2 or 3 dimensional. I never thought that Onkyo could give a deep and wide stage. Because I had done many tests with brands like Marantz, NAD, Denon, Cambridge etc and they were all 2-dimensional. It was a little luck to find out that Onkyo can give a deep and wide stage as well. Wenn I compare Onkyo with stuff from clients which are 2 dimensional. They become sometimes quite frustrated because they hear the limitations of there stuff which is more expensive. Everything I use and sell are based on getting the best 3D touchabel image and the best dynamics, speed, resolutionn and most important natural involving sound. Focus is on creating the best sound possible. Wenn people come to mu house they often use the same words; that they never heard a 3-dimensional image this stunning. That it is new for them. That is why I want give demo's outside of europe as well.
Cause of Audyssey Pro I also can create it in a worse acoustic. This year I sold 2 audio sets in a farm with the worst acoustic ever. But cause of using Audyssey with my way of measurement I got also stunning results. Superior imaging and also no harsh sound at all. Without it it would be a big mess!!
I am busy now with a new website. The comming time I will start making professional video's about many audio stuff. I will make them in dutch and in english as well. So then you can see a face and hear a voice. Second step is also demo's. I also collected many review's of my cliebts the last time. So you will get an idea hoe they think about my way of working.
Wenn a client emails his list I often can see which properties his set has. At show I do the same. before listening I describe how the image and sound will be wenn i play one of my cd's. Wenn you think in properties it is a lot easier to understand audio. Wenn I go to a client I Always first ask them to play 4-5 numbers they know well. Wenn it is possible I listen with him behind the hotspot. I get an idea about the image, sound and the way it performs in his acoustic. Then I use a few numbers to improve the individual focus and also the balance of the low freq. in the room. This costs me about 20 min. Then I ask him to play they ame music he strarted with. You can seet he smile on there faces wenn they are listening. Then I say: and this is for free!!
What I said earlier VDH does not make that great cables. He is a funny person, but there are enough brands which outperform his cables with ease. And yess cables have also a big influence on the stage. I sold Nordost for over 9 years. And I did hundreds of teste with them. Wenn I played 100% Valhalla my stage also become less wide and deep. Wenn I had discussions about this with Nordost they Always became quite irritated. It is as it is, it is that simple!!
They believed in there synergy bullshit story. 100% Valhalla Always gave different limitations. But also with other cables in there line. The stage becomes smaller wenn you use full Nordost cables. Wenn I changed for examples interconnects to Kimber the stage became bigger. And the instruments and voices were so much better focused. Then I used blind test to see what people prefer. They Always choose for the combi of Nordost and Kimber. I am a person who Always looks further than other people. Many people stick to the nonsense they say. Wenn I hear limitations I will directly look for a better solution. Nordost gives a lot of resolution. But instruments and voices need to be focussed sharp were they are ar put on the recording. It does not give the palpable image as in real. Instruments and voices are a lot more direct to point out. That is why I Always did use Nordost just for a part in a system. Because wenn you use it wise it gives you important parts in your set what is very important. Nordost does not have all properties/talents what can be given by cables. That is why I call it incomplete.
I was this year also at a show were they did demonstrate this. It was even more funny. You could hear the difference ( I could hear it quite easy) But there were people who did not hear it. The person of Nordost became irritated that he didn't hear it. So he made a big misstake.
The nice thing about cables is that there are so many flavours. Wenn you understand the properties/talents you can adapt every system to a higher level with ease. Average or sometimes poor cables will limit amps, sources, speakers etc. in the quality they are able to give. There are many people who are not even able to get more than 30-60% out of the amps, speakers, sources etc what they own.
He was irritated because the person said to him: I do not hear the difference. It is how he hears it. So he has to accept it. The man of Nordost said to him; that it was his limitation. How stuppid you can be to use those words. The difference was noticable but not that big. So he did not give a good demo. He played with Odin, Niodeo and Raidho speakers. He played one of my cd's; Bruce Springsteen Brothers under the bridge. His voice was a little to big in proportion. The instruments were not projected in a lot depth. And I missed resolution at the words endings of his voice. Wenn I play it at home you can hear so much easier the words endings. Ending at a ssss, ttt or th. You could hear it, but it was not that clear. So I understood that the person did not hear it. The demo was not good enough. Many parts were you Judge a system at were not convincing enough. It was there fault and not the person his fault that he could not hear it.
The biggest problem is that most audio stuff is not good enough. So I understand that people are not convinced. In over 15 years of time I know that over 95% of all audio is not that special or good. But people still buy it. Wenn I visit some, you often hear a low level for too much money. Wenn you use the right stuff at the right way you can convince every person. Also women. That is why I Always focus on owmen. Women have a better hearing than men.But the interest of men in audio is bigger. So you need to triger them. That is why I Always have a lot of different music with me. So they can play the music they know and like. Quality sells itself. So use the best so it will make it more easy to understand and convince. You have to keep it this simple!
So you see women can have a positive impulse on the stuff we buy. In the past I had a Nordost demo of the SPM loudspeakercable. First he didn't hear the difference with his other Nordost cable. The difference was big to be honnest. What I did was learning him were he should focus at during listening to his favorite music. I used one of his favorite tracks. We played the song 4-5 times. And I told him were to focus at. After 20 minutes and some more songs it became clear for him what the difference was. But he said; my girlfriend plays half. So I said to him; you can lend it for some days. After 3 days he called back. He said; I buy it, we love it. What I did was what you learned me a few days ago. I try to keep audio as simple as possible for everybody. That includes women as well!
I tested many canbles in 15 years of time. In my opinion there are a lot cables which are average or even poor. So yes you can say that most cables are more hype than there value worth. But about audio in general the same thing.
The % real good stuff in audio is extreme small. In over 15 years I do this work and visited many shows, dustributers, shops clients and even manufacturers I am still stuned about how much shit there is on the market. I first could not sell it to my customeers. But second it is often difficult to understand why people spend so much money for a low level in quality. It is a very important reason why I am still in this business. I love this world and I love high quality audio!
3 D staging is Always about accuracy of all the parts including acoutics togheter. But the differences in cables are big. They project the image differently wenn played by the same amp, source and even in the same room. So the question is; What is the right way?
Audio is not a fair business at all. In 15 years of time I visited many people with expensive sets. Many of them still play at an average or even low level. Why? Because often they are screwed by some people in this business. This is the thing I hate most. People thrust the people they buy things from. Many are only focussed on making money. Many of these people do not have a set at home. Often they do not have a lot of music as well. I met many of them. These people are those who dislike me the most. Because I held the mirror often for there eyes. That is who I am. Audio need to be more transparent and honnest. The positive thing I see in this business is that you can get a better quality for a lower price compared to the past. But the biggest problem is the high % of average or worse quality in audio in general. I love cables which are exeptional good compared to there competitors. Because they can bring new properties/ qualitities to the sets we own. Without you cannot reach the level of the absolute sound. For the non belivers I often use blind auditions. This is the only way to understand what they can give you more than when you would not use them. Audio need to be kept as simple and clear as possible. And this for every single person. It should be that simple!
Often when I visit people at home they bought something what has good reviews. A review is often an opinion of a person. Or it has been paid by a brand. It says a lot less than we often think. And yes there are good reviews. But the % what is not good is a lot bigger. The other problem most people make in this business is that they do not know the properties of what they bought. Audio is the art of making the right combination of different stuff. And what I also see often is that people bought quite expensive speakers. Compared to the stuff were they drive it with. I say to all these people; you drive at about 30% of the quality your speaker can give. The % is often too low because the speaker can give a wider and deeper stage. It can give a better sound realims then the sound it plays at that moment. The speed and control is often not the best. Lack of resolution, or the instruments and voices are not that really sharp focusses. What I do is bringing in a amp which can show them the things they miss. Or call it a mirror to understand what the speaker can do better. Money in audio does often not say a thing at all. I compare all the time with other amps, sources, cables, conditioners etc. To open the ears and eyes of these people. So I bring it with me to show them. On and on and on.....
Bose is the by far the lowest level in audio what I ever sold. I call it a 4.8 ( scale 1 to 10) for the money. We compared it all the time with other brands. So who buys it?
Often wenn a woman is the boss in a relationship. When you sell it, after some time you recognise the Bose buyers. Is it all bad? No it is not, after some time they got some credits. When you needed something 1 day later it was there. Prospects, speakers everything is often all in stock. Bose pays a lot of money on advertising, and yes this need to be paid back. So yess you get less quality for the money ( 4.8, you could get a 10 (A) as well) People often believe what they hear. How stuppid you can be? People are screwed all the time in the world of audio and vision. So use your own eyes and ears and don't let them fool you!!
The best products in cables can give a big positive influence on the overwhole sound of a system. And is worth the money. This is why I use blind auditions and a b comparisons all the time. I Always try to create the best sound for the money. These days it is very easy to let people hear a better sound with a source of 2000 dollar with a cable of 1000 dollar compared to a source of 4000 dollar with a cable of 100 dollar. But the problem is that the % avrage or poor products is very big. This is why people say cables are more hype than value. So yes it is true because of the many average and low level in quality of most cables. But you find it in all different kind of audio products. When the focus of many audioshops is making as much money as possible, you Always sell less quality to your clients. I have seen this in 15 years a lot and it makes me angry sometimes. Because I work at the opposite of this way. You need to love music and audio to do it the right way.
It is the speed what makes the Pl-200 special. In speed, focus, depth and in sound it is a lot better than the PL-300. I owned this before the Pl-200. I was never convinced about this speaker. It uses a different filter what makes it a lot different than the Pl-200. The Pl-200 can make a veru wide and deep stage just like Avalon does. But within this stage the focus of instruments and voices is a lot more touchable. It is a 3d image many people never heard in audio before. I also use the 2013 Redwood loudspeakercable, Purist Audio Limited 2013 powercable, Acapella xlr pure silver interconnect and a KE Powersource+ netfilter ( which is superior to the best filters PS Audio makes, I compared them) I played over 8 years with Nautilus 802 and 800 S. B&W weakness are there crossover filters. They are very poor in depth. Wenn you have a wide and deep stage music is superior in realism and it is a lot more addictive to listen. This weekend I bought many new cd's and music bluray's. At the end it is about music!!
Ofcourse you can and you are allowed to be happy :) with your Naim. It still often depends about knowledge. There are enough peolple with sets which are based and focused on sound. ( very important part) I understand why people like Naim. It has a nice sound and is very good in dynamics. Low freq. have a very important and positive influence on our emotion. But in the world of the absolute sound/ highend a 3-dimensional sound sets music to a new and higher level. I had many conversations about this with shopkeepers, musicians and audio manufactures. They all agree about wenn we are talking about the absolute sound. And what you need. I played for a long time with the best speakers B&W makes. But cause of live music, shows and auditions I had to agree that there was an important and essential part to the absolute sound missing. This is depth. Not only depth makes music more stunning. Also a wider stage has a very important influence on this.
I am not going to say that a person bought B&W for just the name. But.....I owned the 802N and the 800S. And yes B&W is incomplete. Why? because they do not make and use the best crossovers. I got aware of this because I could compare it with other speakers. I am a perfectionist and only interested in the best. So yes B&W is not able to give the absolute sound. WhY? Because a deep and wide stage ( which B&W cannot give) is an essential part for the absolute sound. This gives an important part in 3-dimensional sound. This is the most stunning and concinving part in highend audio. There is no discussion about this. This is said by a person who player for over 8 years with the best B&W speakers. They make fine speakers, still today. But not the best. It is as it is. It is just as simple as it is!!