Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Hi Montepilot, you are correct, I have not felt the need for any speed controllers on either the Lencos or the Garrards so far. And so far, no matter the level of performance (or cost) of any system, neither Lenco nor Garrard has found even close to its equal, without any form of filtering or controller. But, I have not, in fact, ever tried speed controllers, having tested a filter or two to which the Lenco seemed immune. I advise you first to get to know the Lenco as-is (restoration, mass and coupling FAR more important, like the foundations of a house) before experimenting along these lines. Give yourself a few months at least in order not to be duped by optimism and illusion ;-), before trying something along these lines. Both machines rely on pure analog momentum.

There has been a running theme in my various battles through the years to have the idler-wheel recognized as the best of the three systems (because I, and others exposed to it, clearly heard it), to wit, that the human ear was STILL the best measuring instrument in judging the relative worth of equipment, theories, implementations and approaches, a statement which has brought a fair share of criticism in the past on other threads (to the effect that measurements and scientific equipment was better-suited to the task) by the scientifically-inclined. From what my ears (and those of others) tell me, I come to the conclusion that speed measurements do NOT reflect reality and are therefore useless and worse, misleading, as simple auditioning makes clear the Lenco's (and Garrard, and various other supreme idlers) superior speed stability OBVIOUS. Hold in your minds the immortal words of Daniel R. von Recklinghausen, former Chief Research Engineer, H.H. Scott, who understood this fundamental issue: "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing."

Along these lines is also the admirable statement by the musician/pianist BYRON JANIS - and thanks to Dave Pogue for bringing my attention to an interesting discussion of acoustics by Mr. Janis, in the article "The Sounds of Music: Want a concert seat with good acoustics? So does the pianist", Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:00 a.m. EST Wall Street Journal. Herewith the relevant passage: "The greatest concert halls we have--Symphony Hall in Boston, Carnegie Hall in New York and the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, to name a few--combine clarity and brilliance without sacrificing warmth. It is interesting that all were built before 1901, prior to the availability of scientific instruments. Apparently, the human ear was (and for me still is) the best instrument of all."

The point is is the role of ASSUMPTION in science. The main assumption which plagues science so far as acoustics and stereo equipment goes being there are no assumptions, that all is built on solid fact!! From this, in particular, it is assumed that measuring equipment and theories are built on a foundation of FACT, empirical observations and so forth, which the result of the tests developed from these theories and facts - i.e. that Turntable A has better speed stability measurements than Turntable B - demonstrates is patently false. So, for instance, scientific theory based on incomplete data led to the theory/belief that the human ear could not hear the brick-wall filters used in early CD players...but the human ear proved to be all too sensitive to this. Then then human ear could not hear beyond 20 kHz...but, the human ear turned out to be, somehow, sensitive after all to these frequencies, which is why more and more equipment measures and performs up into the Stratosphere of frequency response. In all things, the human ear is the measure of a theory or a piece of equipment intended to measure what the human ear is supposed to be able to hear (or be sensitive to in ways not understood), not the reverse.

And ask yourselves, how many scientific theories we believe in implicitly are equally built on unseen and unidentified false assumptions and incomplete data/"evidence" ASSUMED to be complete? Go ye out and listen to a properly-restored idler-wheel drive all, and begin to THINK. And if thinking is too much to ask, then simply glory in the stunning sound of beautiful music faithfully reproduced with all (or most) of its impact and POWER intact! Try it, you'll like it!

I've finished and tested the lovely Elac Miracord 40A record-changer record player, and the sound was quite simply stunning: incredible dynamics, PRaT, bass, very good detail, losing out only on subtleties like imaging when compared with my reference decks. Even a record-changer will easily humble some quite pricey belt-drives, especially in the traditional areas of SLAM, bass and PRaT! I restored it carefully, giving it the Full Treatment, disassembly, cleaning and re-lubing of all bearings including the motor, cleaning and silencing the idler-wheel, packing the ball-race main bearing with new grease to damp down noise. Quite quiet too (Dynamat and getting rid of the suspension would reduce noise some more).

Those who want to sample what I'm talking about have no excuse: you can buy one of these Elacs cheaply and restore it with a minimum of fuss (the Elac mechanism is much simpler and sturdier than the competition's). I also replaced the original tonearm cable with something better but not stellar: a leftover Rega tonearm cable from an RB-300. With a serious cartridge (I mounted a Shure M91ED) this thing will make belt-drive owners go into shock, just like my Garrard SP-25 years ago (but the Elac is better). Wanna kick the ass of a deck like a Rega or a Project for a fraction of the price? Get a record-changer and have some fun!

Moving on up the ladder, my rebuild of a Garrard 301 is giving the Platine Verdier a serious ass-whuppin', and is also ass-whuppin somethin' else, to be reported on later. Let's just say for now the complex low-mass approach is not vindicated, but the simple high-mass appraoch is. Science is about results, not complexity for the sake of complexity, or cost for the sake of cost.

Hi Tsatalia, different cartridges have different sensitivities to hum, as do tonearms (I've found that several re-wires of Rega tonearms stupidly disconnect the grounding of the tonearm-tube itself), wires, and phono stages (some pick up and amplify hum much more than others). Make sure the Garrard or Lenco is grounded, in the case of the Garrard the motor. If a Lenco (or Garrard), then mumetal works as per Mario's recipe.

I'll be back later, perhaps, to talk about the connection between Sasquatches and audio :-)!! But here's a tidbit for the Idler-Wheel War: “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” Arthur Schopenhauer

Hmmm Mike, perhaps your Fisher, like the Lenco and the idler-wheels it represents, represents a Threat to the High End ;-)!! I have to say I just had one of the most intense musical experiences of my life, AGAIN, thanks to both the Garrard and the Lenco. I've gone back to the KEF Reference 103.2's, these speakers produce impossible SPLs for their small size, unbelievable detail and astounding dynamics micro and macro! They deserve every bit of the quasi-religious underground awe they generate. Of course, it helps to have Giant Idler-Wheel Drives which mercilessly crush high-end belt-drive after increasingly high-end belt-drives. AND DDs.

Hi Turboglo, this just goes to show why the idler and the Lenco were overlooked for so long: assuming all the judgments/character assassination were done and warranted, no one even bothered to take these old machines/technology seriously and test them in a good system. This goes as well for various vintage/"passé" speakers (AR2ax's, etc.), amps (vintage Sony, recently having matched and in some ways bested a Classé Audio DR-8) and so on. No one ever mounted a serious tonearm on a Lenco (except a very few who reported and were shouted down as I reported in the early days of Da Thread) to see if it rated (as they were doing the Garrards), and definitely no one was mounting a serious cartridge on record changers such as the Duals and Garrards and Elacs to see just how good those were!! Sorry to hear about your cartridge mishap, try Sound-smith in the 'States, they have a good reputation. Anyway, part of the Secret of the Idlers is to pay attention to all bearings, once you restore/clean those and relube the Dual, and clean the ilder-wheel, it will jump some more in quality!! Have fun, good as these are, they do not match either the Lencos or the big Garrards, the increase in speed stability and everything is palpable and obvious. My own Elac was so good it had me worried and running to do a serious comparison, but once the comparison was done it was clearly audible. But STILL, a record-changer can be a very serious machine, and as you found out even these can still be superior in many ways to high-end belt-drives!! It's the drive system of course.

And speaking of Threats, while Lencos I have sent out Crush belt-drives (and DDs) of higher and higher pedigree, so does the Garrard. The Garrard continues to mercilessly pummel the poor little Platine AND, according to reports, the latest State of the Art DDs. More on this as things develop.

As I've written many times, DD motors, which are their platter spindles, revolve very slowly, either 45 RPM or 33 1/3 RPM, since it is indeed Direct Drive. This means any motor/revolution/speed imperfections (and ALL physical systems are imperfect) are VASTLY amplified as compared with even belt-drives (150-300 RPM typically) and of course, idler-wheel drives (1500-1800 RPMs). Now, DD manufacturers always make much of the impressive and advanced devices they use to control the platter speed, using either a quartz reference, or some sort of servo-control/computerized system (better as it is not as audible), such as that used by Grand Prix, which checks the speed 5000 times a second! Thing is, DDs NEED this type of control, it is a WEAKNESS, not a strength to be Trumpeted to overawe. Don't get fooled by technology: a good idler-wheel drive CRUSHES digital media (VERY high-tech), for instance, when properly set-up, as will become more and more recognized with time, never fear. The Idler is Coming to Get You too, DD, not just the poor, put-upon Belt-Drive ;-). Why? Because the idler uses a pure analogue mechanical system to achieve smooth and unstoppable speed stability, pure momentum, pure inertia, pure torque and power; not computer sampling and rectification, which again is necessary due to WEAKNESS (i.e. slow revolution of imperfect motor), not a plus because it is a strength.

Once again, with FEELING: "Due to the high rotational speed of these motors, great relative mass and so high torque, no expensive solutions need be made to address the weak motors now used in high-end decks. The platters weigh about 8-10 pounds, with much of the mass concentrated on the periphery: the old boys understood flywheel effect to ensure stable speed. The platter is machined and hand-balanced in a lab. Even the motor is hand-balanced in a lab, and weighs something like 3-4 pounds, and runs silently on its lubricated bearings. Think of it: a high-torque motor spinning at well over 1500 RPMs (compared to a belt-drive motor's average 150-300) which pretty well wipes out speed variations by itself. The idler wheel contacts the motor spindle directly, while contacting the platter directly on its other side, thus transmitting most/all of that torque without any belt stretching. Many high-end decks offer thread belts which don't stretch, thus giving an improvement in sound. But the platter is also a flywheel, and so evens out whatever speed variations there may be in the motor. It's a closed system (motor-platter, platter-motor) and speed variations brought on by groove modulations don't stand a chance in this rig, and it is clearly audible."

So, despite current DDs generating the most impressive speed stability figures ever achieved, idler-wheel drives still have better de facto speed stability in action, when actually playing a record. This increased speed stability (even over a measured/claimed 0.002%) translates into: better and more impactful transients, more SLAM and HEFT, better dynamics micro and macro, more PRaT, better bass, better gestalt, etc. Not only does it translate into these things, these things are the proof the speed stability is better in practice!!

Now something I was not aware of when I sent out the Giant Garrard, was the fellow already had a Garrard set up, in Cain & Cain plinth. He did not find it impressive next to his Platine Verdier (which truly is a work of engineering art), and really did not expect much from my particular high-mass approach, (though he was excited and interested evidently or he would not have proceeded). Of course, if you extrapolate, you know what happened: the high-mass birch-ply/MDF plinth massacred the hardwood low-mass two-tier Cain & Cain, in spite of the separate tonearm-board, of the hardwood and all the clever and more complex design features. Again, it is results which matter, not complexity for the sake of complexity!! The massive birch-ply/MDF plinth is simple, it is CLD, it is neutral, it is HEAVY, it absorbs noise, it is economically-feasible, it is EFFECTIVE. As with the Lenco all on its own, trust your senses, suspect your poisoned brain of prejudices (which includes a love of complexity).

The Lencos and Garrards are out there conquering, and this will continue. I have nothing against the two other systems (I've experimented with BDs, and am still experimenting with DDs), to me this is simply a discussion (which I won't let die out, a least for now or until I get bored), backed by experiments and evidence (which I continue to both collect AND generate), of which of the three systems is superior. The idler IS - I believe - the best of the three systems, and so far the evidence AND logic support me. And now for the Garrard/Lenco/Idler Marching Song, aimed at BDs and DDs, sing along now: DOOM doom doom doom; DOOM doom doom doom....:-). Vive la Lenco, Vive la Garrard, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!

Hi Malcolm, welcome back!! I'll toast to you tonight, several times, hic ;-)! I've actually been looking for one of those, congratulations it looks a Fabulous Beast, I predict it'll Crush many belt-drives! Looks like the British version of a Rek-o-Kut, and I mean that as a compliment (built like a tank).

Hi Mike, yep, again and again I am steered towards vintage classics, the 1966 Sony having defeated many pretenders old and new, and ALL my speakers are vintage. In fact, I just picked up a pair of Klipsch Heresy MKIs and I am astounded by these, I'm in love (AGAIN). I need an Intervention. I bought the Heresy's with an eye towards trying a triode amp some day, and these are very sensitive. But I wasn't prepared for the sheer amount of DETAIL these retrieve and communicate, which in addition to the SPEED and DYNAMICS micro and macro, which I did expect, adds up to one incredible ride! I was also not prepared for the almost total absence of horn colourations, which I did expect (glad to be proved wrong), just the eensiest amount of upper midrange/lower treble glare, less intrusive than many modern two-way speakers in fact ;-). I have them mounted on stands like normal bookshelf speakers, which might explain the very tight bass I am getting (against the general opinion), sounds like down to 50 Hz or so (helps to have Giant Idlers :-)). PERFECT apartment speakers. Perfect Idler speakers too, as they TRULY capture all the acrobatic and intense dynamics and speed and razor-sharp transients which are particular Idler strengths (it's ALL strengths, but these stand out). Keep us up to date on your Fisher system adventures please!!

Hi Goughary, you need M4 threaded rod. Good luck.

Hi all, just here to report the Incredibilitude (you heard it here first, folks) of, what else but Idler-Wheel Drives?!? I have, being a Heretic, been driving the Klipsch Heresy MKIs with a 100-watt Mission 777 power amp, and backed up by the Lenco and Garrard have heard things which were not even remotely hinted at before!! Hey Mario, if you thought my set-up was detailed last time (with the Pierre amp and ESS AMT4s with Heil Air Motion Transformers), you ain't heard NUTHIN' yet!!

IMAGINE driving a pair of horn speakers with an incredibly Powerful Idler-Wheel Drive AND an incredibly powerful SS amp (with two transformers and more juice than I've ever experienced)...run for cover!! But actually, I am amazed at how delicate and unforced this system sounds when required, like acoustic guitar pieces which are rendered with more perfect delicacy and a light touch (but lightning response: the Mission amp was the fastest amp on the planet when it was released) than I have ever heard in my system. BUT. When something is SLAMMING, it is SLAMMING, She Blinded Me With Science hitting with more speed, SLAM, detail and forceful BASS than I have ever heard in my system. And the Klipsch are reputed to be weak in the bass. Not with an idler-wheel behind it (both Garrard and Lenco), and not with a powerful SS amp behind them! I also have them mounted up on stands so the tweeter is at ear level, and there is now nary a hint of horn colouration, brightness, grain and aggression of any sort. Neutral. I have found my speaker. I will however, eventually be hooking up a tube amp to them, the Search is on.

Now I had bought these speakers with an eye to trying out an SET, but having the Mission handy (which I bought because it was made in Canada back when metal-work was cheap in Canada - the big MISSION cast in metal for the faceplate with the ISSI being the heatsink - and I wanted something Canadian in my otherwise international set-up), I hooked it up after it wowed me via the KEF 103.2s. I realize now that good as my system was - and almost all who have heard my system either already had an idler-wheel drive, or went on to buy one - I have not even been scratching the surface of just how good these are, when properly optimized. Even via simple acoustic guitar works I heard things which I have never heard before, such as the clear separation of several guitars into 3 guitars, and with more delicacy and dynamics Macro- and Micro- as well. But with something already dynamic and impactful, like Thomas Dolby, the results are quite simply frightening. My skin is still sitting empty on the couch :-). I also extracted what sounded like an extremely powerful 40 Hz from the Heresies!

So now to the role of dynamics in sound. This current set-up shows just how important dynamics Micro- and Macro- are to the retrieval of detail and information, something which, as you all know (or should) idler-wheel drives excel at (along with every other audio attribute there is), so that should be "particularly" excel at. Imagine 3 guitars all playing at the same time. Most turntable/cartridge combos have difficulty keeping the three clearly separate. But the INCREDIBLE ability of an idler-wheel drive to capture the LEAST (and MOST) change in dynamic pressure means the three guitars are now much easier to apprehend. This is because the three guitarists are playing with varying amounts of pressure (or pluck), and the ability of an idler-wheel drive to faithfully capture this PLUCK (which test is failed by belt-drives which slow down at EXACTLY these moments of intense groove modulation) means the three guitarists are clearly identified and so separated, each strand and item of musical information faithfully organized and separate....and yet, with that ineffable Idler Magic, together in a way that again eludes the competition (this due to Speed Stability, of course, meaning perfect timing, or as near as). Ditto ALL instruments/recordings/electronica, ALL faithfully captured, organized, and communicated.

Now an idler-wheel drive is one thing, but not all stereo components further down the chain are created equal, some speakers are a faster than others, some preamps faster than others, and some amps faster than others. One thing I'll say for my current set-up, which is likely sweetened by the presence of the Audio Research SP-8, is it more faithfully captures ALL the dynamics a micro- and macro- (with the help of the horn-loaded Klipsch, with metal horns, and the ultra-fast Mission) than anything I've ever heard, ever, anywhere, at any time. This also means, in the light of what I've just written, that it is also the most detailed and informative system (AND exciting) I've ever heard.

Does this mean it's the best? NO, the little Sony is definitely velvetier and smoother (which helps with bright/grainy recordings, or records with groove damage), and I imagine a good tube amp will preserve the speed and detail (or near to), and inject some warmth (but this system IS surprisingly smooth and captures rich resonances easily, I'm in no hurry). Also, the Fab AR2ax's still preserve the incredible bass SLAM/weight/heft and the consequent edge in PALPABILITY (which I hope to inject into the Klipsch via tubes), and the amazing KEF Reference 103.2s still, incredibly (at half the size or less), go deeper in the bass and with an almost equal sense of limitless dynamics (but NOT speed) and detail as the Klipsch. I'll be experimenting further.

All this to say, that as much as I thought I was retrieving from the Lenco and Garrard 'tables, I've not even been scratching the surface!! No wonder the Lencos and Garrards I've sent out to do battle are crushing such luminaries as various EMTs and Platine's , not to mention the usual Suspects, Linns, VPIs, Nottinghams and so forth. They are being plugged into various high-sensitivity systems with balls and sound pressure, which CLEARLY show the great Idler Strengths (and once again, it's ALL strengths...just that some are more striking than other in a washed-out world of belt-drives and anemic DDs). The more responsive your speakers/set-up, the more clearly the Idler Strengths will be heard (and the further behind belt-drives and DDs will be left behind in the dust, choke), in a nutshell.

Be-OO-tiful receiver Mike, I've just scored a tube beastie to match up to my Klipsch (and various others for the fun of it, including the very sensitive ESS), not as vintage as the Scott, but still vintage. I've been sitting on a totally-fried tube Fisher integrated, also reportedly good.Gotta get off my ass and fix that one some day. Great to hear about the Eicos too, I'll have to retire from the human race and lock myself in a shed with a soldering iron and a listening chair. Have fun all in the Land of Vintage Gestalt!!

Hi Montepilot: the more the mass the merrier. Doesn't matter so much how you achieve the mass, so much as how MUCH mass. The best results I've had so far is with a combined weight/mass of 75-80 pounds, which is FAR FAR superior to a combined mass of, say, 40 pounds, much more than double the results. To achieve this mass with Russian birch-ply and MDF, I reach plinth dimensions of 23"W x 19"D x 6"H, Lenco and feet not included. Do a little research on this thread and others, the mass only become truly effective when combined with Direct Coupling, which is the Key.

Hey Rjdcan, great to hear from you again! Give me enough years, and I will eventually get around to everything ;-)! Just so no one gets the wrong idea (so many are looking for reasons NOT to try an idler-wheel drive), in any system and with any speakers of whatever sensitivity, the big idlers like the Lencos and Garrards are CLEARLY superior in every way to their belt-drive cousins. It's just that, the more responsive/fast/dynamic the system, the greater the lead the idlers will take, due to their STUNNING dynamics Macro and Micro, and leading-edge transients. So don't take this as an excuse to avoid the Idler!!

Glad to hear you are still getting mileage out of that MC, it is unkillable!! I have a confession to make: faced with the repair cost on my Kiseki (one channel out and likely the stylus to replace), and perusing possibilities, a very good deal came up on an Ortofon Jubilee, and doing the research and reading between the lines (that not only was the detail and so on first-rate, but it was BEAUTIFUL-sounding), I decided to spring for it for Christmas (of course, audio-wise it's ALWAYS Christmas for me) rather than invest in refurbing the Purpleheart Sapphire, which never had quite enough balls for my taste, though plenty of Beauty. Well, the Jubilee has the balls of the Denon DL-103 and the refinement of the Kiseki (and like the Kiseki, FANTASTIC bass), it gets the music RIGHT, and based on this experience - and on the M15E Super which I still love (I should mount it on my RS-A1, but my Denon is still making beautiful music there) - I can certainly highly recommend the newer Ortofons as well.

And to those running Deccas, in experimenting with my various cartridges in order to optimize them/match them to the proper tonearm in the context of my system, I made the following discovery: the Decca improves vastly when mass is added to the tonearm. Add a cartridge weight at the headshell end of a tonearm, and the consequent and added moving back of the counterweight will effectively increase the overall mass. BIG jump in dynamics, detail, clarity.

Have fun all, off to listen to my latest classical score!

Hi Paul: one of the Decca's great strengths (and there are many) is bass power, which even its opponents concede. If you're not getting that now, then I hope anyway more mass will help. One thing for certain, the extra mass increases focus, SLAM/dynamics and clarity in the bass. In my system, with the slightly bass-light Klipsch Heresy's, I can't currently tell if it has increased reach. Try it, you might like it! One thing I didn't expect from a Decca being mounted on a Giant Direct Coupled Idler, is that now it sounds very much like a Grado (except with extra speed): rich and resonant and smoooottthh and organic. Never heard a Decca sound like THIS before! Very easy to live with. On belt-drives it comes across as more speed and detail-oriented, and in your face. Idlers suit it!

Yep Peter, they are horn-loaded as Rjdcan says, except the woofer: maybe this is the heresy! Apparently, PWK named the Cornwalls for the fact they were to be placed in the corn-er, against the wall :-).

Hi KB, that's the spirit and the right attitude! However, noise from a Lenco motor is NOT normal (mine are characterized by DEAD silence, even when compared to belt-drives said to be superb in this regard) it would help if we knew which model Lenco you were using, what wiring scheme, and whether you have taken it apart to clean and re-lube it. Any other details you might have as well which you might feel are relevant. Have you checked under my "system" for my info on motor adjusting and rebuilding?

And Peter, good to "see" you again, happy to see you're still enjoying the Mighty Lencos :-)!!

For an update on my system these days, I last reported I had acquired a pair of Klipsch Heresy's which totally blew me away and conquered me, and in a new development I have matched them to a tube amp, an Audio Innovations Series 800 MKIII, an EL34-based push-pull 25-watt Class A amp, which is monstrous power for the ultra-sensitive Klipsch, as I spend my days and nights diving for the volume control (due as well to the monstrous dynamics of idler-wheel drives, now Unchained)!!

Now the AI is not exotica, or classic vintage/legend, or even subversive/fun like the Dynaco ST-120, the Worst Amplifier in the World (which, come to think of it, I'll try with the Klipsch, as due to its stiff regulated power supply it has very fine control of detail and minutiae, should be fun ;-)), but, it IS musical, it does detail, it does bass, and I am very happy. It plays such beautiful music. Which is to say, a properly-balanced system will be superior to a system built up of legends and exotica. The fellow who came over yesterday, who has a very high-end system, also admitted it did not sound as good as mine. But, he will soon have a Lenco and I predict it will then become superior to mine in all kinds of ways, as I know and admire the individual components, Wyetech tube electronics (superb) and Coincident Victory speakers, which should be an excellent match.

Hey Dave, those Yamahas ARE good aren't they?!? A total surprise when I first hooked up my 625s in my system by a series of accidents, which I had bought strictly to test old electronics. Actually, I'm thinking they would sound superb with my tube amp!!

Anyway, have fun mixing and matching guys and girl(s ;-)). The Dynaco is actually sounding excellent with the Heresy's in the background, very smooth and detailed, had a feeling this match would work (and fun to challenge people's perceptions/prejudices), more later!!

Hi Mike, yes indeedy the AI 800 MKIII has an easy musicality, liveliness and fluidity which complements the Klipsch very well, sounding very smooth, AND produces some quite serious bass! It has a Beauty which reminds me of the Ortofon M15E Super, redolent of red wine and fires in the hearth in winter. I'll be making this set-up my mainstay for quite a while.

Hi Billybuck, I had reported a while back one of my audio buddies up here sold his 80-pound Technics SP10MKII, saying he no longer felt anything for it. Even before the Lenco reached its Giant phase, he would invite me over to hear just how much superior the 40-pound Lenco was to his Technics. I also owned and rebuilt an SP10 MKII to find out if it too could Crush belt-drives as easily as the Lenco, and if it were indeed a threat to the Idler Supremacy. It wasn't and I sold it. And Lencos have defeated EMT DDs, the best ever built. But if you think about it, the DDs are MORE complex, not simpler, as they require complex circuitry in order to work, and once these go - and they always do go - the 'table is toast, though one or two experts may exist in the world who can repair them.

The Lencos are in fact about the simplest and most reliable 'tables out there, far simpler mechanically than the Garrards, and so repairable by the amateur, and the wheels apparently last forever, provided they are the metal ones. However, you seem to have found one of the very few lemons ever reported, so don't let that one bad experience colour your views of the Lenco. If a Lenco is in good shape when it is first bought (and they almost always are), and has the metal wheel, then after proper restoration it will perform dependably for decades more. A friend of mine got the first one I ever rebuilt after my return to Canada (the Oak Lenco under my "system"), and six years on he still uses it without problem, needing only a dusting once in all that time to continue to play perfectly: his wife uses it frequently. I am now retrofitting the various mods/improvements (except mass of course) to it. I would advise you to abandon the Lenco you have, find a good one, and apply all you've learned to it. Once finished, the wheel will never need replacing (unlike a belt or thread), the motor will run for decades, and even the "ON" switch, which consists of a silver barbell and a spring, will last forever. The plinth, of course, doesn't wear out or go out of adjustment either.

Welcome to the ranks of the Lenco Initiates Glenn!! If everyone had had a quality idler instead of a crappy belt-drive (and by this I don't necessarily mean ALL belt-drives are crappy - though in the context of idlers....;-) - but the cheap ones were and are execrable) when CD made its first appearance, digital would have been laughed off the world stage and would today be analyzed as one of the greatest PR (and technological) failures of ALL Time!! One [apparently small and meaningless] Evil (the collusion between press and industry to lionize the cheaper-to-manufacture belt-drive) gives birth to others. Now we have MP3, the concept of "Quality" is fading from Western consciousness, it is Fast Food everything. Good thing even without exposure to the concept of Quality (and integrity, and ethics) some seem to have an innate knowledge of these things. Anyway, the lessons aren't done yet: it takes quite a while to absorb all the lessons of the Mighty Lenco. Your sensitivity to PRaT will increase, along with gestalt and harmony (which high-end belt-drivers and worse, the Digital crowd, claim to understand, like dessicated 90-year-old scholars discussing the concept of Sex...these definitely need the lessons Idlers can teach them), and all the musical secrets which lie engraved in those licorice pizzas will slowly be dragged out into the light to amaze, delight and enlighten you for decades to come!! Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!!!

Hi David, the Yamahas, along with the AR2ax's, are two of the speakers which have given me the largest dose of the Kundalini Effect, when mated to the Sony 3130F, though I do hear it peep through various combinations I have tried. However, with a big idler behind various items of equipment, I hear all kinds of flavours of Beauty and Excitement, keep us posted as to the strange Tube Beastie you might get next.

Hey Ronnie, small world!! I know I am loving the sound of this amp more and more, due as well to some 'table/tonearm/cartridge rolling I was doing yesterday. I'd love it if you contacted him and got me some more info/opinions on this amp!! But, to get to the RS for now. My own RS-A1 has no ground scheme whatsoever that I can see, so no screw/stability problem. With my Denon DL-103"E" there is no hum whatsoever in spite of this, but with my moving-iron AKG P8ES there was indeed some hum. But a caveat: the RS-A1 is in the back corner, so the headshell travels directly over the motor, I don't know if there would be any hum in the other position.

Did I ever mention that I find the Rega RB-300 to be one of the Greatest Bargains in Audio History ;-)?!? Yesterday I had fun playing tonearm/cartridge swappies on my two 'tables (B75 Bogen-Lenco and Garrard 301 grease-bearing), and having recently acquired a new Rega RB-300 to replace the old one (which I traded mounted on my old Ode to the Denon for equipment a while back), I re-wired it with my usual recipe of Cardas internal wiring and Music Boys (I LOVE this recipe!!). Anyway, I had constructed a special armboard for this tonearm for the Garrard 301, and mounted the Ortofon Jubilee to it. What sound greeted my ears!! For years I used the Kiseki Blue on the RB-300 on my Lenco, and then my Kiseki Purpleheart, and never did the Rega let me down, sounding powerful, incredibly detailed and blindingly dynamic, and yet "honest", in the sense of tonally correct and with dynamics in their proper proportion (like the more-expensive JMW tonearms).

Again yesterday it freshly blew me away with Ortofon's current statement MC. Never have I heard Marianne Faithful's brilliant Broken English LP sound so perfect, so mesmerizing, so amazing, as if it were the product of careful and expensive recording, transference and vinyl!! But nope, just a garden-variety commercial LP available for a few bucks used. Didn't know it was THAT good sonically, run to the nearest store and get yourselves copies! Also never have I heard this LP on a Giant plinth, or with a cartridge of this stature. I heartily recommend the Rega for ALL idler-wheel drives (including, of course, the Garrards), there is definitely a synergy between it and idlers, almost as if, like the Koetsus, the Regas were designed on idlers :-). As I've written before, once I'm done playing with all these other tonearms, I'll likely end up with solely a Rega.

And speaking of incredible bargoons, a fellow audiophile was here yesterday, and clearly heard the supremacy of the Denon DL-103 at PRaT, timing, it being the only cartridge so far to generate the full power of the Kundalini Effect (which is not to say that there aren't perhaps some others out there that can achieve this). Mounted on the RS-A1, it has detail to rival the best, and a lack of hardness due to the RS-A1's swivelling headshell, which pretty well eliminates tracing error. The Denon DL-103 should be dissected and examined to see what makes it tick, and the lessons applied to all new MC designs, but no, it's too cheap, and so is not taken as seriously as it should be, it being assumed the more expensive materials of more expensive cartridges will address all issues (wrong). Of course, there are all sorts of flavours of Greatness, from the Grados' supreme gestalt, through the Ortofon's supreme evenness and balance (combining a large portion of the Denon's energy and PRaT with state of the art tonal perfection and detail), and so on, it's a complicated and fascinating old world, glad I have multiple 'tables and tonearms!! Vive la Vinyl Fun!!

Hi Ronnie, no, there is no little screw interfering with the flush-mounting of my RS-A1, it is affixed flush using two-way tape with no problem on my arm-board. Perhaps they took care of that in their later models. Oh well on the AI 800 count, nevertheless, it is sounding glorious!! As it should, given it is being driven by idler-wheel drives :-). Now I'll play with the Lenco/Morch/Decca!!

Hi Leisual: if the Lenco is working fine, then buy some rust solvent and clean the Lenco up and go through with it. The cleaning up part will be more work, bt in the end it will be stellar. Apparently tea is an excellent rust solvent: TEA.

Hi Mike, the disc MUST be utterly flat or it's not worth the effort (too much vibration/noise). The other option is a variac with which you can adjust the voltage/speed and remove the offending disc completely. Do as Gene suggests and wait for a spare on ePay, as a variac will reduce torque, and Torque is Sacred.

Hi Ghougary, I don't think plaster is overdamping, it being fairly neutral and non-absorptive. Give it a go! As to the bias weight, biasing is not an exact science, as the force actually changes as the needle travels across the LP, there is no absolute value. So I think the Lenco weight would be perfect, actually close to the size/mass of the original, which is quite small. Been really busy these days, but will be back with yet more Idler Impressions later ;-).

Had been away from home the last few days, and played Pink Floyd's The Wall, and while I was drinking pop from the bottle (bad me), I almost swallowed the bottle when the Lenco Dynamics came suddenly slamming out from a quiet introduction!! Forgot just how SLAMMING the Mighty Lenco/Idler was!! The words are "speed stability", true, in-practice, actually-playing-a-record, Speed Stability. There goes the one musical advantage digital has over vinyl! Back later for more ;-).

Hi Chris, from your description it sounds almost impossible the noise is coming from your bearing. Remove the idler wheel and simply spin the platter to see if there is any noise, make sure it is not coming from the idler-wheel. If it is indeed coming from the main bearing, then take it apart again, polish both the spindle and bushings with some sort of powdered metal cleaner, and then re-lube once it has been thoroughly dried. I use Mobil 1 10W30 for extra-quiet operation.

Hi Igor, in fact those who follow my writings know the Rega RB-300/Denon DL-103 is one of my favourite combos! So for roughly a grand I would buy the RB-300, spring for an Incognito kit, a Kerry Audio counterweight, and buy either a 103 or 103R, or a 103 and have it re-tipped by Soundsmith. The OC9 is also an excellent match to the RB-300, it has less SLAM/ PRaT than the Denon, but still quite good in this respect, and more delicacy/detail. As for the Lenco, given the acreage of the Giant Direct Coupled plinth, I no longer cut the corner off, I simply rotate the Lenco 90 degrees clockwise and build an armboard next to it which will accommodate short and long tonearms. Check out the later photos under my "system" for an idea.

And now for the promised diatribe on speed stability: yesterday the fellow came over who is waiting for a Lenco so he can kick out his Wilson Benesch Circle. He has much more invested in his digital rig than he does in his vinyl rig, and yet what did he remark on above all others things in listening to the Lenco? You got it, speed stability. As I wrote up above, the ONLY musical advantage (I did not say "convenience" or "silence", neither of which are musically-important) digital has over turntables is speed stability. This, it turns out, is due to the use of belts (and overly-complex DD circuitry, which still must combat the nefarious and serious Stylus Force Drag, or SFD), which of the three systems is least suited to combat SFD. And of the three systems only one was specifically designed to combat SFD, and that's the idler (political correctness and wishy-washy ersatz "wisdom" notwithstanding). Because when the idler-wheel system was first designed the stylii tracked at 10 grams and more, which required some serious muscle to counteract. Later on, when listening, it is evident that of the three systems the idler-wheel is STILL the best of them, as is evident when simply listening to them (properly set-up, of course).

So, all of those razor-sharp transients, that incredible PRaT and gestalt, that amazing bass SLAM and power and depth, the incredible detail, the astounding imaging and retrieval of the acoustic space, the naturalness, is due, indeed, to simple speed stability. The Giant plinth does act to quieten down the noise to astonishingly low levels, but it also serves to nail down the workings to increase even more that astounding speed stability. And the more stable the speed, the more all of the above attributes increase. And the way to improve the speed ability even more is to increase the mass of the plinth, and to direct couple it. In fact, I believe that much of the reported speed instabilities of the Garrards in particular (and the Thorens TD-124s) is due to the habit of isolating them from the plinth via rubber suspension/grommets/gaskets, which being springs, allow the 'tables so mounted to rotate, just like a Linn on its three unstable springs.

So, night after night up here I sit astounded, listening to my Lenco, after decades of use. How many 'tables can give such satisfaction over the years (and so reliably and painlessly with minimal upkeep), and not only satisfaction but constant amazement, excitement and power?

So, for all you digitophiles out there who claim to love music, imagine what would happen if the LP could match the CD (or DVD, or whatever else they are cooking up) for speed stability? Imagine what would happen if all the LPs' advantage in naturalness was accompanied by the transient speed and clarity of digital, but without the reconstruction by computer of the original waveform? You don't have to imagine, you only have to listen to a properly set-up idler-wheel drive, and hear the best of both worlds, which will never be achieved via computer chip. Get ye out and hear a Lenco or Garrard (or other large quality idler), Direct Coupled to a Giant CLD plinth!!! And all your dreams of musical reproduction in the home will be realized, aaahhhh, sweet satisfaction at last :-).

Hi Michael, if you can't adjust the speed properly at the brackets, then you need to go further into the machine and adjust at the joint which shifts the idler-wheel assembly. This is the circular bit with two screws which pivots around a nut and bolt arrangement: loosen the screws, and move the idler sled backward or forward (with the two screws sliding and changing position on the two arcs) until you get a good range of + or -33 1/3 with the bracket in the middle, then tighten again.

As to the tonearm, does sound like an arm-lift problem as Harry said. Even though the Denon is burning in, and probably the phono stage too, it shouldn't sound so bad. Remember: the tonearm should be parallel to the record with the stylus in the groove. Once this is done, then use the nifty dynamic VTF arrangement on the Rega to increase mass to suit the low-compliance Denon: shift the counterweight as far back as is conmfortable on the end-stub, and then use the spring to achieve 2.5 grams tracking force. Can't do that with an RB-250! I LOVE those RB-300s, especially with MCs (here they stand up to the best, their biggest problem being they're too cheap, and too ubiquitous). However, with Grados I do believe the RB-250 sounds better, but will know more in the future.

Just a reminder to budding DIYers and the curious, though it's true that a Lenco can be brought to unimaginable (and as-yet unmeasured) heights by going to various extremes, let's not forget that the success of the original thread was due to the Mighty Lenco's amazing sound quality, even in humble - or even NO - plinth. AND no tweaks or even lubrication!! In the beginnings of the original thread, though we laboured to build various [what at the time we thought] heavy CLD plinths, in imitation of the Garrard plinths the Japanese were then building, one fellow, owner of a fully-tricked-out Linn LP12/Koetsu set-up, posted his experiences with Lenco with no plinth at all, with Rega tonearm in original hole, with all the geometric and VTA inaccuracies this entailed:

"This evening is the first chance I have had to play with the beastie. I found (it took me a little while) the Origin Live modified Rega 250 that I bought two years ago intending to mount on an Empire 208 if I ever found one. I didn't. I also found my little used Denon 103D. An hour later we were ready to go. No plinth. I precariously balanced the Goldring on two lead shot filled plywood boxes that I made ages ago to set a pair of Carver Amazing speakers on. The speakers are long gone, but the heavy little boxes thankfully remain. Albert I don't know what TT you had before the Goldring, but my expectations were certainly not high since I have a heavily modified Linn LP 12 with an Ittok arm and Koetsu Black cartridge. I have to say that the Goldring with the lesser cartridge (the Denon 103D at $225, while a very impressive cartridge is no match for the $1,500 Koetsu), unravelled the music and separated instruments better than the Linn with the Koetsu. At first I thought that was hearing over-simplification of passages, but when I started hearing things in the foreground that were either distant on the Linn or very subdued, I knew this was not the case. Separation of lead and backing vocals and clear enunciation of words seemed better on the Goldring. I think I have to switch the Ittok and Koetsu to the Goldring to be completely fair. But then I think that there would be an even greater bias towards the Goldring."

"I continue to be impressed by this TT - even without a plinth - which I know will improve everything. It's subtle for the most part and reveals everything with a very light touch, never screaming "look at all this detail". But when there are massive dynamic swings it is scary. For the ultimate test of just how scary, play "No Pasaran" from Joe Jackson's 1987 LP "Will Power". It will make you leap out of your pants. Also even in it's plinthless state it sails through those classic 'test' tracks like "Sad Old Red" by Simply Red and "Ride Across The River" by Dire Straits - both tough tests of the ability of a system to reproduce bass that stops and starts on a dime with no overhang."

"I am a long time Linnie. I have own LP 12's for 28 years. My current Linn has an Origin Live DC motor and a Cetech carbon fibre subchassis. On a whim I bought a GL 75 and put an Origin Live modded Rega 250 and my beloved Koetsu Black on it. Holy shit, better bass, much better leading-edge dynamics and pretty remarkable imaging. This is all without a plinth. I'm just resting this beast on two lead-filled boxes. I am about to make a decent plinth and see where it goes."

"I STILL haven't built a plinth for my GL 75, OL Rega, Koetsu Black. But I'm playing it all the time. And I get more impressed with every LP. I should mention that I went from thin, model train oil to Mobil 1 grease and then a combination of the last two. My last choice seems to be the best. When I eventually get around to building the plinth it will be on this site. Just listened to Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms" and Little Feat "The Last Record Album". I'm hearing things that were not there AT ALL on the Linn. Buggeration. Is that possible?"

Now over the duration of the original thread I emphasized fun, and posted my own shoddy plinths for all to see - which are still up there and viewable (after all its' about sound quality and musical magic, not ultimate aesthetics), I have done nothing I am ashamed of and much I am proud of, including the Canadian Rustic ;-)! - so everyone from the totally inept and inexperienced to the better-trained would be encouraged to join in and see what all the fuss was about. I asked the more talented among us to continue to encourage the neophyte and untalented, and downplay their own efforts, as I knew that if I did not strive to prevent it, it would become a pissing contest, and the thread would die, and instead of the joy it should have brought, bring instead ugliness and pettiness.

So, now the original thread is dead and this but its "baby", let's not forget the fun component, and please do not believe the various forms of poison being spread about on this topic, a phenomenon which is inevitable considering the success (with its concomitant envy and other base and destructive human feelings) of the original thread and its intent, to have both the Lencos and idler-wheel drives in general recognized as serious, viable high-end 'tables.

The Lenco is indeed Mighty with nothing but a Rega tonearm unceremoniously plopped into the original hole, sitting on bricks, and mounted with your cartridge of choice. It is not true that it will cost you a "bundle" to achieve true high-end performance, it is not true that you need endless talent, materials and time (though it will improve performance) to achieve this. What IS true, is that with the purchase of a Lenco, some bricks, some solvents, cleaners and lubricants (Mobil 1 products), and some damping material, and a humble tonearm at a couple of hundred bucks, you can achieve sound quality that in audiophile terms can duke it out with $5K turntables, and which in musical terms (i.e. PRaT, gestalt, harmony) cannot, I think be outmatched by anything, at any price, and all this, STILL, for roughly $500 total or, depending on your luck, less.

So let's remember all, that though, indeed, I DO believe the idler-wheel system is the best of all systems, and continue my activities in proving this point/wait for the evident evidence to be absorbed, that ALL efforts should be encouraged and welcomed, and that those neophytes out there should not look at the tremendous aesthetic and complex efforts being made out there and be cowed, and should instead meditate on the Case of the Fully-Tricked-Out Linn LP12 owner. Don't get carried away with the thought that you will get the One Ultimate Turntable of all Time, as evidently even those who rebuild Lencos achieve varying degrees of success, and likely at some future point some new thing will come along to seriously boost its performance: things are not static. So do what is in your power to do, whether it be four bricks or complex woodwork, and be at peace: the Lenco will NOT disappoint, regardless. Have fun, and be proud of your bricks ferchrissakes (sorry, M.)!!!

And those sitting on the sidelines: what have you got to lose?!? The original thread was heading towards 4000 posts and had lasted nigh-on three years, not because the Lenco was mediocre or questionable, but because it was unbelievably good. And Ay, There's The Rub. The Lenco is so literally unbelievably good, that all who read accounts of it believe it MUST be a case of hyperbole and exaggeration, and so dismiss it, despite 3,700 posts before it was deleted (the longest thread in audio history at the time the delete button was hit), and 3 years of success, and more, counting this new spin-off. So, take the hint, start using your heads, and get ye out and buy a Lenco, and achieve what you are seeking at a budget price. What have you got to lose? And more to the point, what might you gain?!? While Garrard-ers on other forums gaze longingly and with awe upon the Impressive and Legendary EMTs, Lencos are out there, in largely original trim but for massive plinths, casually and with no sweat outperforming them. Who knows, like me, you might find yourselves developing some woodworking skills! Though, to confess I DO miss the days when I had fun with creative and crazy designs (as a substitute to tools and talent) and spray-paint from Canadian Tire, sigh, and fun and sound quality (i.e. MUSICALITY and not audiophile detail) counted, and not aesthetics. Think I'll go re-set-up my Canadian Rustic, I'll NEVER let it go ;-).

She's a beauty Peter, and I REALLY love that green!! Knowing how subtle and all I am ;-). Also love to see that familiar-homey birch-ply/MDF layering, so dependable. Beautiful accurate work as always, you should have been a watch-maker..or are you? Can't wait to get my own top-plate. Please contact me about your motor mounts too, I'd love to get some for my own project. Still waiting for my own top-plates, perhaps they're in Iceland, visiting, for the moment, bringing Good Lenco Vibes :-).

Ah and my good friend Mr. Kundalini: though there are flashes with the Audio Innovations/Klipsch combo, I have only heard the full brunt of the effect (which is to say, going beyond mere raising of hairs on arms and neck, caused by musical timing perfection, to full-fledge shivers up and down the spine, observable in others too), so far, with the Sony 3130F/AR2ax combo, and to a slightly lesser extent the Sony with other speakers too. Something about that Sony...

I want to re-set-up the Sony/AR system, but the combination of tubes and Klipsch Heresy MKIs is sooo beautiful in other ways I'm finding it hard to force myself to dismantle it. Gotta have several sound-rooms!

The other necessity for the full brunt of the Kundalini Effect - so far (there must be other combos, and the Ortofon Jubilee actually makes a very good stab at it, and of course the Decca) - is the humble Denon DL-103, which like the Sony, is seriously vintage, and yet, like the Sony, gets the timing and gestalt aspects of the music, with the necessary drive behind it, soooo incredibly best-in-the-world right. So, today, having been sent an Ikeda tonearm to test out by a Lenco afficionado, I will indeed take apart my beloved AI/Klipsch pairing, re-set-up my Sony/AR2ax pairing, and test out the Ikeda with the Denon, for which it is supposed to be an amazing match, to see if it too can pull off the Kundalini Effect. For those interested in the Ikeda, the Fidelity Research tonearms were designed and built by the same man, and are available, of course, at a lower price. The owner of the Ikeda has the right attitude re. the Kundalini Effect: open-minded and in a spirit of fun and enthusiasm, joie-de-vivre, grain of salt, but still valuing what I am talking about here: the intense and distilled musical experience, which in a sense transcends mere sound to yank directly on our DNA.

And needless to say, the Prime Ingredient for the Kundalini Effect is an idler-wheel drive! So, yes, I have to say it, despite the best efforts of a few who need to learn about having a good time, to kill the party and the fun (while profiting by it): Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!

And on the Lenco Front, some big news cooking perhaps this summer, as I continue to send the Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lencos (and Garrards) out to be inserted into ultra-high-end systems to amaze and delight, and to make the point: just how incredibly effective the Lenco is, in largely original trim (with its potential largely realized by judicious tuning and optimizing...and by the proven tonally-neutral and dynamically stupendous and balanced birch-ply/MDF recipe), with no need of anything but attention to detail and an inert mass. We don't yet know what its upper limits are, and isn't it exciting to attempt to find out what they are?!? And let's all hum the Mantra: "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad;
if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing."

And finally, speaking of having fun, I insert a photo under my "system" demonstrating why a Giant Lenco is a Giant Lenco, everything being relative, and "Giant" being a perfectly adequate and accurate word, not to mention evoking the intent/effect much more effectively than "Reasonably Large Lenco" or "Larger-Than-Average Lenco", which would have people both yawning and wondering what was meant. A photo, taken long ago, of a Giant Lenco with Rega tonearm sitting next to a Rega P3 record player, with Rega tonearm. Enjoy your Giant Lencos ;-).

Hi Helen, great to hear from you again, and that you are hearing the Lenco again! The magic of it never ceases to astound me, and I've lived with it for nigh-on two decades now, now THERE's value for money :-)!

Oops, and great news on the marble plinth Mario, you know of course that I'm watching with great interest, as my original idea back in the early '90s when it seemed actual manufacturing might occur, was the building of Lenco-derived decks out of romantic Parian and Naxian marble, famed in poetry for centuries. Ah, such grand visions...then the bottom fell out of the analogue market, falling to its lowest point and indeed seeming like the long-foretold END. Glad to see it wasn't so, and in fact the reverse!!

Up here, I made a booboo and blew a fuse on my Sony, and made a Great Discovery: my AR2ax's, with which manly He-Man 100-watt SS amps struggle, is easily driven to great volume and with superb tight bass by my 25-watt Class A push-pull tube amp! No more dramatic verification can there be of the designer's cautioning that the speakers were designed for the output transformers of tube amps, having been designed in the '60s. This means nigh-on world-class sound can be achieved at an incredible budget price: match up the superb AR2ax's to a vintage Dynaco amp for an incredible end result. I was amazed at the increase in soundstage depth and specificity when I switched from the Klipsch - which are quite good at this relative to some other speakers - to the ARs, which clunky-looking as they are, definitely look like they shouldn't image at all. And, the predicted increase in PRaT and magic, along with against-the-evidence-of-the-eyes excellent detail and tonal neutrality. And where's the hidden subwoofer? I love these speakers!! Terrible fun swapping all these vintage legends in and out too, each set-up emphasizing yet another strength of the Lenco, and commanding respect for those legendary designers (Paul Klipsch, Henry Kloss, Herb Vilchur, Oskar Heil...) and each I could easily live with. But at these prices, why choose only one? I have got to try a Dynaco ST-70 with these speakers at some point, likely at the end of the summer/early Fall.

The Ikeda/Denon match-up is very good, very detailed (making the Denon DL-103"E" sound like a high-end MC in this respect), and with no hint of fierceness whatsoever. Further listening ahead. Have fun all!

I got my top-plates from Reinderspeter, beautiful work Peter!! Won't be working with them until late summer though, as currently I am swamped, and then I'll be out once again somewhere on the globe, perhaps having some Lenco adventures, as some of you might soon discover, or not.

After a prolonged absence (a few days) from my system, I returned to Music Heaven, ah, these vintage systems sound soooo GOOD, especially when backed up by big idlers :-)!!

Great to read such detailed work on main bearings, and evidently from an expert, kudos to Sander!! Though I have never yet found a Lenco bearing which was not pristine, I'm sure they are out there, so I'll add the instructions to my "Lenco Lore" against future need (for other 'tables too:-))!! Speaking of which...Huh?!? What happened?!? Something stank in the State of Denmark, I heard a noise, then it all disappeared. A Mystery ;-).

Anyway, I'll be playing with my Lenco this weekend, have to say, so far, I LOVE those Rega tonearms (especially the RB-300)!! They do so much right, and have such a warmth and musicality, and seem to work well with all cartridges!! Perhaps it's my Cardas/Music Boy (especially Music Boy) wiring recipe. Highly recommended. Now it's mounted on my Garrard (with my Ortofon Jubilee), but I think I must set it up again on my Lenco and hear it, once again, there. More reports to come, have fun all!

Hmmm....everyone seems to be sleeping, so I'll jump in. The motor voltage is strictly a matter of wiring: make sure the AC goes to positions 1 and 4 on the barrier strip at the back of the motor, and the switch to positions 2 and 3. Look under my "system" for an idea. The NA spindle does indeed simply pop in, the only difference between the two is machining of the sloped part against which the wheel spins. Just pop it in, wire correctly, and it'll work. Problem is getting a NA spindle, as it will necessarily come from a whole Lenco. You can always consider buying one of the cheaper light-platter Lencos for parts. Good luck!

Great post Helen: an object lesson to detail-fixated audiophiles out there in how to listen to Greatness. Not that the Lencos and other big idlers don't also rule at detail/information-retrieval, just a matter of musical priorities. While the Lencos and other large idlers rule at detail and everywhere else, where they REALLY get stupendous and downright supernatural is in the intensity of their musicality/musical POWER. Go back and read Helen's post all, and think "Kundalini Effect" ;-). Can anything but vinyl (available in the here and now) do that?!? Vive la Vinyl, and the Idlers which realize its potential!!

Hi David, I wish!! The whole thing, as written in the article, was Bob's idea, and for that I thank him deeply, as should you all, as an Ambassador/Product of Da Thread will be sent out for Official Recognition!! Celebrate!!! When Bob, who isn't afraid to tell it like it is and use big words like "Crush" and "Incredible" - and like you too David ;-) - if the facts support the word (i.e.; it is an accurate description of the reality, something which seems to escape so many who see the world through socially-imposed politically-correct lenses, and so don't like to make definitive statements), approached me and asked me if he could approach some magazines for a review, I wrote him to go ahead, kill himself doing it, that no one would touch me or the Lenco/Idler Movement with a 10-foot pole!

Imagine my surprise when I received - THE SAME DAY - not one but two e-mails, via Bob, one from Srajan Ebaen, the editor of 6moons, saying yes, and one from Jeff Day, an outspoken idler fan himself, who was looking forward to it and supportive. So, seeing that Srajan was based on Cyprus, that I try to travel every summer to the Mediterranean, that I had been involved in quite a few digital vs analogue dust-ups on Audiogon recently, I thought to - as always - put my money where my mouth was (Srajan has a VERY serious digital rig, coming in at something like $43K, so the Lenco has its work cut out for it), combine the Whole Enchilada and see what happened. Again I didn't expect success, and was amazed once again that not only was Srajan open to the experience/experiment/adventure, he was enthusiastic about it and day by day knocked down every single of my proposed objections/road-blocks!

I do believe Srajan, being an original thinker himself, is attracted to rebellious, questioning movements. He did the research himself, and so I had to try and make an effort too and at my end I contacted my contacts and had them relieve me of much of the expense: providing tonearm, cartridge and phono stage (and many thanks to them as well). But this will still be a very expensive venture, to ship, to build (I am having special metal feet made, having the metal parts bead-blasted and professionally re-coated in a very tough finish, developing a special plinth-building method, etc....this is for a high-end audio mag, no Canadian Rustics here!).

So I still don't know if it will happen: as should be clear to those who have followed my writings over the years, I value Travel well above Audio, and if it comes down to a choice between months of freedom doing my thing (also very expensive) and a review of the actual Lenco animal, then it's bye-bye review.

Those who have read the article will also have noted the Wyetech connection: to my surprise Roger Hebert, the brilliant mind behind the World-Class Wyetech electronics (and you haven't lived until you've heard a Lenco via his equipment...check out the several reviews of his equipment in various mags including TAS), catching news of the possible review on the Arctic Wind up here, came out and publicly announced his own Lenco conversion. Another who did not hesitate and instead trusted his hearing.

He heard one of my Lencos being demonstrated at a certain speaker manufacturer who was using Wyetech prototype top-of-the-line monoblocks to drive them (the combo, with the Lenco and ONLY with the Lenco, literally shook the concrete basement floor of the auditioning room) and was impressed. I soon received a phone call asking if I would bring my Lenco to his house for a demonstration? For reference, Roger uses big Zus, Coincident Total Victories, and a HUGE pair of limited-edition Tannoys (my favourites, though the other two are superb as well), and was using a VPI Aries with a Benz L2. Within one minute of hearing it, Roger turned to me and said "I want one". Still frightened of using the word "Crush" you timid fellows out there?

But Roger is a professional who produces impeccably finished and built electronics (works of engineering and visual art, truly, inside and out), and had to have a professionally-finished Lenco, and not the "dog's breakfast" that particular Lenco was :-) So, elated at the PR value of this latest conversion, I hired a cabinet-maker (and learned from him, very expensive lessons), and a lacquerer, and so began the making of the new plinths, which I owe to Roger for kicking my ass to take aesthetics more seriously, and teaching me some lessons as to Zen-like Perfectionism.

That same dog's-breakfast Lenco was also auditioned by Rob Fraboni, producer for Keith Richards and Bob Dylan among others, and he spent time listening to it via the prototype spoeaker/amp combo from various points in the room (the Lenco was VASTLY superior to the high-end digital source as the speaker manufacturer already knew, which was why I was asked to bring the Lenco for the demonstration for Fraboni). Though a digital man, he was interested enough to ask "Does it have to be this big?" Aesthetics is one thing, but ay, Performance is the thing!

Anyway, This Is It: the Lenco as it has developed on this Thread, and so its child, gets Official Recognition. I will be building it - assuming I AM building it and shipping it (a lot cheaper not to, it's a lot of beer and suntan lotion) - according to the Principles developed on the Home Despot Thread: Giant Direct-Coupled (pan married to the plinth) birch-ply/MDF (humble but most effective so far in my experience, and in tests superior to some quite more exotic recipes), Glass Re-Inforced (the pouring of high-grade marine-grade glass epoxy into the hollows of the Lenco top-plate to re-inforce and eliminate vibration/noise, pricey but worth it) Lenco L75. Of course the aesthetics will be expensive, but we have to send out a proper Ambassador from Da Thread/s do we not, and not a dog's breakfast ;-)?!?

Now, I had promised a while back that things were getting exciting, and now I think we're THERE :-). This is, I remind you all, cause for CELEBRATION (quit yer whining, you whiners out there), so go Ye out and do so however it is you do so!!! So one more time for the Gipper (whoever he is): Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!

Hi Grant: the post Audiogon found so nice, they posted it twice! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a bar up in the A'Gon control room ;-). Thanks for stepping forward with corroboration of that amazing experience a while back, offering a window into the Lenco experiences up here in the Great White North (especially white this weekend with an ongoing snowstorm)! Thanks to Oregon too for his unfailing energy, support and enthusiasm!

You're welcome Kravi4ka, and good luck with your project! You're not too far from my yearly summer peregrinations. I hired a lovely Bulgarian singer to work with me in that bar on Rhodes Srajan mentioned, her husband working the front disco bar (mine was more MUSIC-oriented, of course ;-)). They were a great couple, and she got into the work with great spirit. The bar's theme song was The Pink Panther, and somehow, playing that song always turned the flame up high on the party/business. She didn't question it, and whenever things got quiet she would come to me and say "Play the Pink Panther." No sooner the opening bars came on, the doors would burst open an a crowd stream in, like magic, every time. I've since bought the LP, and the music is terrific, and the recording fabulous!

As to making history, the review is another step in my original War to have the Lenco/Idler recognized as the Truly Great and Mighty system it is (the first being Da Thread, made a success and possible by all those intrepid participants over the years), in fact The Best, though a mighty indirect baby step, as it won't be compared with other vinyl spinners, or in a vinyl context, but instead be inserted into an all-digital system, and auditioned by an all-digital Man. A very very serious all-digital system. In fact, a perfect test of my claims of Lencos/idlers and the importance of and performance in speed stability over the years. The Lenco/Idler phenomenon continues to grow and expand due to its, indeed, actual, in-practice, tested and proven, Mightiness. The Lenco, again as developed by all the participants of Da Thread/s over the years (and I have UTTER faith in it) will be undergoing its first baptism by fire!! An interesting experiment, dontcha think? And, perhaps MOST importantly (at least to me), I'll get to sip drinks on the beach on my way to somewhere/something interesting, and on my way FROM somewhere/something interesting :-). Getting back to music, as the Aerosmith song says, "Life's a Road, not a destination" (often featured in that bar :-)). And who knows where on that road the Mighty Lenco will go?

Enjoy your Lencos all, and all the other idlers out there! Time to start testing combos with the Lenco/RS Labs and get to work!

Hi Richard, thanks for your support, as always, and your usual caveats - a HEALTHY form of HONEST debate - only underline your integrity, and the integrity of this thread, as other healthy and fascinating debates have done in the past. Thanks to all those who have debated, like gentleman, using honest evidence, logic and opinion (inevitable as we don't know everything) various issues with me in the past, to keep this thread vibrant and alive. For now, I'll leave the PC-Science and what constitutes acceptable evidence connection for another day, as the bigger Sturm und Drang (German for storm and drama) of this new higher-level exposure will concentrate our energies and attention.

Long ago, the first of my persistent opponents, that first Richard121 - driven like all the others by considerations of ego (i.e. the lowly and base envy) - had written the following over on "that" forum, which has set the template (especially on that particular forum, very interesting, perhaps I should re-analyze the original thread and write a book after all on the subject) for all attacks on me ever since:

"John,
You should go to Audiogon... there is a thread there "Building Hi-end tables cheap at Home Depot" that you will either laugh at, or get pissed, because the guy is convincing people to buy Lenco L75 tt and build a massive plinth (he claims this will cure the rumble problem).
The guy obviously wants center stage, sort of like a cult leader... he will not listen to any logic.
The thread is enormous... so many people are falling for this."

Now yet again: "Posted by rich121 ( A ) on February 18, 2004 at 20:55:43

Make sure that you post your thoughts.... many of these guys reading this, are buying these tt, I did also, and then... researched it, finding out how bad the rumble problem really is.
This guy is a "cult evangelist" wanna be...
Richard"

Now that the Lenco's Mightiness (and this is no hyperbole) is proven, then what of Richard's charge? It shows that what drove me all along was indeed, as I claimed, the Lenco's - and by extension the idlers the Lenco represents - amazing abilities/performance, which I wanted to share with the world (and effect TRUE progress). The charge that ego motivated/motivaTES me doesn't hold water, but it is an easy charge to make, as the stand I took - and proved - has made me somewhat of a public figure (in our small little analogue audiophile world), and the price of "fame" (as far as that goes) is unwarranted criticism.

The charge against me over on that - ho-hum - SAME forum, is that I am taking credit for what is not mine. While it is one thing to not toot one's horn (and one reason so many believe these charges is that I indeed kept silent and let Freek and Fred lead the charge over there and took no credit, so other than a few battles evidence is scarce on the ground), it is entirely another to stand idly by and watch others, driven by their petty ego issues/ambitions, try their damnedest to erase one completely from the record. So let's look at that posting once again and analyse it for what it implies: ""John, You should go to Audiogon... there is a thread there "Building Hi-end tables cheap at Home Depot" that you will either laugh at, or get pissed, because the guy is convincing people to buy Lenco L75 tt and build a massive plinth (he claims this will cure the rumble problem). The guy obviously wants center stage, sort of like a cult leader... he will not listen to any logic.
The thread is enormous... so many people are falling for this."

This shows that the denizens of that forum (who turned an originally enthusiastic participant of the Home Despot thread into a dedicated opponent) barely knew the Lenco/Idler/DIY phenomenon even existed. But thanks to Rich121 and various others who attacked me, and continue to attack me on that forum, the Lenco/Idler/DIY thing caught on and spread.

Long ago I had written a big thanks to that original opponent, who set the template for all the following attacks against me, as every time he attacked me in public forums the e-mails and interest grew due to the free publicity (and people LOVE the controversial, something these less-than-sharp adversaries cannot understand), and so, like fertilizer on plants (think of those Yahoos: "from whence they began to discharge their excrements on my head"), helped the Lenco phenomenon grow and grow. So, once again faced with a deluge of e-mails on the subject due to their attention being drawn to the 6moons article/Lenco phenomenon (and these e-mails ALWAYS represent only a tiny fraction of the actual awareness out there) I would once again like to thank the same crew for the free publicity! Thank You, oh Thank You so very much.

This same fertilizer is also largely responsible for the incredible heights the Lenco has now reached, so I would ask all Lenco participants to thank these Yahoos along with me, as I present a case in point. That SAME Richard (very busy boy) tried to discredit the entire effort on yet another issue, this time the issue of proper geometry. Over on that - YAWN - SAME forum, he had posted that no proper attention was being paid to either tonearm geometry/positioning or VTA (I was just plunking the Rega tonearm in the original hole, due to the Lenco's natural Mightiness it still sounded amazing as Palmnell's - Linn LP12 man - above posts testify). So, in order to save the Lenco/Idler/DIY Project from this attack, I pioneered the cutting off of the corner (which I no longer do, plinths were smaller then) and the creation of the removable armboard method for our DIY plinths. This actually represented a BIG advance in the Lenco performance and phenomenon, as, in addition to the increased sound quality due to proper positioning and VTA, there were no longer any roadblocks to the use of any tonearm anybody wished to try! And so began the Great Tonearm Frenzy as we all began to rediscover and mount a variety of vintage and current tonearms - from Decca Internationals and Maywares through Regas to Grahams, JMWs and various SMEs - to test them out with the Lenco, and also began the Great Cartridge Frenzy as various vintage cartridges were rediscovered and the whole Lenco/Idler/DIY phenomenon became Supercharged.

The same motivation - various forms of attack and unfair criticism - prodded us all to raise and raise the Lenco's performance: Direct Coupling, high mass, deep investigation of the Lenco Guts and how best to restore/tune them, proper lubricants, brilliant and inventive solutions as tey were showcased, and so on. So let us all, I beg you, thank these opponents for this richest of Fertilizers, who through the years - and STILL - motivate us all to reach for the sky. The latest reaching being the shipping of a Mighty Giant Glass-Reinforced, Direct-Coupled Lenco to Cyprus. I Thank You for the free publicity, I Thank You for energizing this thread, I Thank You for the ongoing opportunities for setting the record straight, I Thank You for the energy and for the motivation - the Fertilizer - which keeps this movement and phenomenon growing and growing, to who knows what point/level. Join me all, please in a BIG Thank You!

Now, freshly energized and motivated, time to start planning/actuating/building that emissary of our efforts, that plinth! Hope you're all having as much fun as I am fellow Lenco-ers :-)!!

Greetings Mario, fellow adventurer down the Audio Path and fellow amateur historian/archaeologist. Thanks for the kind words.

Time to address some of the usual misleading and distorted postings out there, provoked by the Preview, and to learn something of the scientific process in the bargain! Part of the reason I believe in the Scientific process, but often have serious doubts as to the Scientists who should be following them (who are often – but not always - to Science what the Enron accountants are to accountancy), is because of their often selective reasoning/consideration of the evidence...favouring of course whatever it is they choose to champion. Sort of like a certain forum’s (you all know which one) recent treatment of the 6moons Preview: the 6moons INTRO, CLEARLY marked as such, is in the PREVIEW section, and so is a PRE-view, not a RE-view. Nevertheless, it is there treated as a RE-view, the better to mock and denigrate it for....not being a Re-view after all. Nothing new here, as that forum has been the home, first of those who attacked any suggestion on my part that the Lenco was a serious ‘table, and now any suggestion that I ever battled there to have the Lencos and idlers taken seriously, that forum now dominated by DIY idler projects (due not only to my battles with what have now become Captain Idlers, but to the activities of two who followed the Home Despot/Lenco forum, Freek and Fred)! Take a look at this, from the early days of the thread:

“02-19-04: Musicus53
Hi, John

I just wanted to let you know that your fame (or in this case, infamy) is rapidly spreading since you've now a subject in the Vinyl Asylum! I thought the post about you was actually laughable, but I had to repond (as "Vinyldork"). I just hope a "deprogrammer" doesn't kidnap me now and convince me that Lencos are crap before I get to do the project! Some great links from bornin and I'm looking forward to the pics.

Don”

The denizens of that same forum (is it something in the water there?) – the one which, as the preceding post makes clear , evidently thought my promotion of the Lenco and idler-wheel drives was to be stopped and was laughable - NOW claims I never conducted the battles there I evidently did, to have the Lencos and the idlers recognized. Let’s have a look at another reference to that same forum for Old Times' sake :-):

“02-20-04: Rich121
Did you not read the posts? They basically repeated what I said in this thread earlier.... These are Lenco owners who posted... I'm talking about the posts on AA that Musicus53 reported. Obviosly, you did a search of AA to dig up the few positive posts, why don't you tell the truth, about the overwealming negative posts? That are from Lenco owners. Most every one that still owns a Lenco, says that it is only useable for old 78's because of the rumble (which you claim is not there!, Which you claim can be eliminated with a massive plinth...) What it amounts to, is your claiming that it will (plinth) defy physics and magically divert the rumble from the platter, to the plinth!!! What a joke!!!! The plinth is not even directly connected to the motor/idler wheel/platter.... it is connected to the plate, then the plate is connected to the motor, motor to idler wheel, to platter WHICH IS WHERE THE RUMBLE ENDS UP!!!”

Now Richard wasn’t lying here, I had to dig long and hard to find ANY positive mentions of the Lencos, because any such mentions were quickly punished by Yahoo-like avalanches of abuse, and they learned to keep their heads low (as on all forums at the time, though not with that Yahoo-like intensity characteristic of that particular forum). Apparently things don’t change, and neither do their ways, three years down the road. Some of the less rabid on that forum should begin to think about cleaning up over there.

For the literate (those who can tell the difference between “Pre” and “Re”), one could also consider Swift’s “Yahoos”, he evidently had these types in mind which existed in his day 300 years ago, as they do in ours: “Several of this cursed brood getting hold of the branches behind, leaped up into the tree; from whence they began to discharge their excrements on my head: however, I escaped pretty well, by sticking close to the stem of the tree, but was almost stifled with the filth, which fell about me on every side.”

To show further examples of this type of selection, they – again Yahoo-like – select my early plinths for mockery and denigration - which I let stand to constructively encourage amateurs to join in and feed the Idler Ranks, and which Srajan selected with no argument from me (thus disproving any ego issues on my part, as I might have asked him to post some of my better efforts: the top Lenco is Willbewills - say Hi! - and the centerpiece is Tom's) – and carefully avoid mentioning or displaying the later plinths which have been up posted under my “system” on Audiogon for months now. Then, following the same utter lack of logic (but a very fine sense of prejudice and pettiness), they charge me with having too large an ego! Not that they get away with it: for while they egg each other on and thus think themselves clever, I receive regular e-mails from frequenters of that forum, informing me of the latest antics of the “court jesters” and “the usual suspects” (and thanks for the info all, but truly, I’d rather not know ;-)).

Any who are interested in witnessing the antics of these Yahoos, or practicers of selective consideration of the evidence, go ye over on that forum, and check out the 6moons thread, and identify them! Then, simply as a spectator sport, watch for their next postings whenever my name – or Lencos – comes up. A very interesting lesson in a certain type of human behaviour, and an excellent example of what I am talking about re. certain scientists' selective consideration of the evidence, and other techniques used over the years, such as: claim a statement which was never made was made (just like deliberately taking a "Preview" and presenting it as a "Review," to then take issue with it), and then attack the statement to discredit the individual! I have seen these tactics – and many more - used in the history of science (of which I am an avid student), and in the 20th century and the 21st century too.

And now, let's get back to Lencos and away from spelling and dictionary lessons, to Mightiness, Hyperbole, and Political Correctness (yes, one of my favourite subjects because one of the biggest problems). Many have accused me of hyperbole (of course) because I make "outrageous statements" with respect to the Lenco, and this, of course, offends the Politically Correct (and provides an excellent handle for certain Yahoos to focus on). But, as Grant so courageously pointed out, the statements are NOT, after all, exaggerations, since they are accurate descriptions of the Reality of the Lenco. Let's look at the question in terms of logic: the Upper Limits of the Lenco have not yet been found. In fact, so far, the Lenco has CLEARLY beaten all comers up to $20K in the Land of Belt-drives (haven`t had tests higher than this...yet, though I am slowly Climbing the Ladder), and even some very Scary Classics like the EMTs (even the BEST of the EMTs). So, given the Upper Limits have not been found, then how is it even possible to hyperbolize?!? Ergo, they are NOT hyperbole.

Dare to Think the Unthinkable you watchers out there: what if I'm right?!? What if, after all, Idler-Wheel systems ARE the Superior System?!? How else to explain the incredible success Lencos and idlers are having out there, despite the over-engineering of many of the current belt-drives, after THREE years. It's not because they suck, uh-uh. Gadzooks! Could I, after all, be right?!? Of course, the Yahoos won't like that one bit, as then some serious amounts of egg would be flowing from their collective faces, so you can bet they will oppose the Unstoppable Lenco Juggernaut (as they already are), in order to avoid the destiny they (NOT me) have carved out for themselves, to be an ugly little footnote in history as....Yahoos.

YOU BET I'm gonna make this review happen, and place my destiny in the hands of the Audio Gods and roll the Audio Dice (I've never heard the phono stage to be used, and don't know which cartridge will be provided, for one).

Though I have often thought to simply abandon the whole Idler/Lenco thing and let the very persistent and tireless Yahoos (what IS their diet?..I gotta get me some) have their "victory" (elimination of me from my own history/activities/achievements, and theft of the same), I also am fundamentally unable to let it happen, and am doomed, dammit (I often wish it weren't so), to battle (though I had hoped, very FAINTLY hoped, knowing what I do about the often ugly history of the development of science - silly me - it would be about evidence and logic). When Bob asked me if he could approach some magazines on my behalf, I told him to go ahead, secure in the knowledge I wouldn't have to take on this burden/pressure (and as the Yahoos demonstrate, it is a burden) as no magazine would touch me with a ten-foot pole. I here take the opportunity to post the relevant parts of the e-mails:

From: Jean Nantais [mailto:ripplefritz@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:59 PM
To: Bob Olson
Subject: RE: Riggle VTAF

"Hi Bob,

Yep, pretty busy these days, but I don't think one of my Lencos will ever get reviewed, too much of a threat to the industry."

"Jean,

Geez, 7 or 8 turntables in one year - and I thought I was extravagant moving up to two tone arms! You may well be right that no one in the mainstream audio press would review the Lenco. But if anyone would, it's Srajan Ebaen of 6moons.

Bob"

It turns out Bob was right. It is also damned exciting stuff - this is the stuff of LIFE! (I think I'm gonna faint ;-)) - and we, Lenco followers ALL, owe Bob a big thank you! It turns out he read both Srajan and I exactly right. Had I known that I would have told Bob "NO!", but, here we are, heading into the perhaps-Great Unknown. Feel the adrenaline, Home Despot threaders!! Now, where IS that suntan lotion?!?

Ah the Old MM vs MC debate! Reminds me of the early/middling days of Da Thread, and the Great Cartridge and Tonearm Frenzy: signs of health to see it re-appearing here! Myself, overall I'm an MM man, but, certain tonearms do sound excellent with MCs on the Lencos and Garrards. But, in the final analysis, MMs are simply superior to MCs in the difficult-to-pin-down gestalt arena, and if I had to choose, I would have to vote for an MM. Fortunately, I don't have to choose!!

And the "humble" Denon DL-103 goes a loooonnnggg way to narrowing the gap between MMs and MCs at gestalt, and when mounted to a sympathetic tonearm (and it is VERY sensitive to phono preamp/loading, I find that, *generally-speaking*, with active devices it prefers 100 ohms, and with transformers it seems to open up at low impedances, like 3-10 ohms or so...but these are generalizations and final results unpredictable), simply rules at PRaT, which goes some way to making up for the slight shortfall in gestalt.

Ah what a complicated web! The Ortofon Jubilee, when mounted to the JMW 10.5 tonearm, gives THE most evenly balanced and "accurate" tonal balance I have ever heard (the JMW actually pulls this trick off with quite a few high-end MCs, seems to be its characteristic), and it also excels at PRaT and gestalt, though not to the extent of the always-slammin' Denon. But this too is valuable, as perfect tonal balance (AND perfect emphasis/capture of dynamic shadings, another JMW/MC characteristic) allows one to simply sink into the music (as opposed to being physically dragged into it - Kundalini Effect - as with the Denon) and forget about audio.

Though my Decca is always hooked up these days, I'm pining for my MMs, and if I have the time I want to mount my Black Widow or my Mayware (and some others) to Mr. Red and play with my MMs: the fabulous Ortofon M15E Super (which wows everyone without exception, and is the precursor of the rightly-respected and famed VMS series); the Piezo YM-308 MKIIX (which is a state-of-the-art information-retriever, and I have yet to hear it in my new set-up); and of course the various and glorious Grados, which may be the most overall musical cartridges ever made, and which set the standard (especially the Woodies) among ALL cartridges for retrieving air, imaging, and the sonic resonant signatures of acoustic instruments, AND of course the human voice. Plus, they rock, they do PRaT, they do bass, and they have a warmth which once heard, is very difficult to live without. Time, methinks, for some more fun with MMs :-)!! Thanks for inspiring me all!! Have fun with your removable-tonearm Lencos and other idlers!!

Hi Harry, I too once had a chance to get my hands on a McCurdy Idler, very nicely-built (under contract I believe to another company), but passed on it as it was going for too high a price, and I was still sitting on my nice Rek-o-Kut Rondine I haven't had time to get around to yet. Btw, my Rondine has a small idler-wheel and a metal motor pulley, so I expect to get it to sing rather well and silently (I hope: rubber grommets instead of springs). I did hear a big Rek-o-Kut with the giant puck and plastic pulley, and in mono it was glorious and silent (in mono there is no rumble). So there is a use for these, provided you use them for 78s and other true mono pressings, don't lose hope for these amazing machines, as in mono they have all the slam, bass, detail and perfection of speed one hears with a Lenco! Good news for those who spend big bucks on state of the art mono MCs, they should consider these as well as, of course, the Mighty Lencos.

Thanks for putting your two cents in Bob: I'd like to add that several of those who have abandoned their Uber-Pricey belt-drives in favour of Mighty Lencos are using absolutely top-of-the-line MCs and tonearms most of us can only dream about, and these in full-range systems: there is no limit yet found to the Lenco's abilities, which is utterly silent when properly restored and rebuilt.

The Mighty Lenco continues to conquer, continues to prove that the Idler is - in spite of those politically correct pundits (and Yahoos ;-)) who want to pretend/assume all systems are equal in the absence of actual testing so as to "please" everybody and assume a fraudulent "wisdom" - quite simply the superior system! Once again it is about speed stability, and once again, at speed stability the belt-drive is the worst of the three solutions, which is precisely why - apart from materialism gone mad - they have reached the $100K level. The idler, on the other hand, which was designed and created FROM ITS INCEPTION to combat stylus force drag (at its inception cartridges tracked at 10 grams), is the BEST of the three systems.

To recap the logic: if it takes $100K to market a small motor driving a rubber band driving a platter to realize vinyl's potential (a VERY iffy proposition: we haven't compared these to Giant Direct Coupled Lencos...yet :-)), then the system is inferior. A good idler-wheel drive, on the other hand, can reach and exceed this performance level (as will become clear with time, Yahoos notwithstanding) for much smaller outlay: concentrate on the motor, on the idler-wheel, on a simple balanced platter and decent main bearing, and let a simple recipe of a non-resonant mass do the rest (i.e. NAIL IT to the ground so ALL the motor's energies drive the platter, and absorb noise). This is a MUCH more effective way of counteracting the much-more-serious-than-formerly-thought phenomenon of stylus force drag (which is why belt-drives in the $50K-$100K league are now common). Bringing back an old example: it's as if a group were proclaiming the superiority of steam-driven cars over combustion engine cars, but in order to make a steam-driven car which will match a combustion engine car for speed, it would have to be 100 feet long, weigh 100 tons, and cost $100 million dollars.

Anyway, there are more glorious conquests coming on the horizon, and the [possible] review, and likely more reviews and more conquests after that (each leading to the other). The Idler Phenomenon is growing, precisely BECAUSE it is superior, more and more are being swayed by the logic, and word is spreading in the audio underground and behind the scenes (as well as the articles which are growing in number), via those who have Mighty Lencos . This is a matter of science, logic, engineering and CHALLENGE: an exciting enterprise, don't let the Yahoos poison this endeavour, as Yahoos do (their reason for being)!! More conquests of very serious 'tables by Lencos on the horizon in addition to the review, and you bet I'll post them soon as they come in :-)!! Have fun with your idlers all!

Hi all, up here I've been having continuing Adventures in Idler-ing, of course, AND human nature, which is to say, the blindness of prejudice. But first, back to the roots. Recently I re-fixed up an Elac Miracord 40 MKII, a lovely Art Deco beauty with round buttons and a Magic Stacker ;-), built to the exacting - and simple and durable - Elac standards, which is why they are my favourite record changers).

I've often recommended it and I recommend it again: those who are sitting on the fence wondering if there is something after all to the whole Idler thing should find an Elac record changer (Listener magazine once ran an article on just such a restoration), or if a bit more ambitious, a Dual or Garrard SP-25 (MKIII or higher), which are more complex and less durable machines. When one is sitting with no large experience of record players hearing a Giant 80-pound Beast/Idler, then one can ascribe what one is hearing to all sorts of things (like, for instance, that a $30K belt-drive would be even better, and so both miss the point, AND make a likely erroneous assumption) and so remain unconvinced. But, if a confirmed Belt-Driver hears a little, humble Elac, Garrard SP-25, or Dual idler, properly restored, tweaked and tuned, THEN to what can one ascribe what one is hearing: something well beyond the abilities of a rather expensive and well-known belt-drive? One can't point to mass, or to some sort of Super Bearing, or any of a host of other possibilities.

In effect, one of these little spuds is exactly what prompted my own "religious" conversion to the Idler Faith, Brothers and Sisters. Had I first heard instead a Garrard 301 in a birch-ply plinth, would the conversion have been so total and absolute? I don't know. I likely would have gone idler (as already I valued PRaT and dynamics above all else), but I would also perhaps not have drawn the conclusion that the idler-wheel system was superior to the belt, at least not immediately. But, faced with a little itty-bitty Garrard SP25 MKIII (these have superb motors btw), which I had restored, and set against a background of highly-regarded belt-drives (Maplenoll, Audiomeca), I KNEW I was hearing something superior to both, and considering the engineering and build quality, the ONLY thing which could be responsible was the drive system. And the fellow who picked up the Elac today, and heard it for a few moments, had a similar reaction.

Which is a roundabout way to say, yet again, to those sitting on the fence seeking Musical Knowledge, dig up one of these old, cheap, common idlers, lovingly restore it, put a decent cartridge on it (give it a fair shake, today's Elac was mounted with an NOS Grado 8MZ, a VERY serious MM), and plug'er in and let'er rip. And prepare for Enlightenment.

Getting back into the Ultra-High-End, I just finished the restoration from junk of a butchered Lenco G88, which was not only spray-painted black with the irremovable paint from Hell (I finally had to have it bead-blasted), but also had a toasted speed control and on-off switch. The plastic trim cover was also spray-painted and, being plastic, couldn't be bead-blasted, so I had to fabricate a substitute from MDF, devise new switches, and have the extra pieces, along with the Lenco and platter proper, re-coated in cream polyurethane paint. The plinth, a two-armed affair for an OL Silver and a JMW Signature, is finished in blue lacquer, finished to a mirror finish (called "polishing the polish"), very expensive,m good thing I wasn't paying for it all! But nevertheless, a prototype for the Cypriot seafoam-green-and-cream Review Lenco, based on an L75. It'll be under my "system," and, of course, it sounds astounding (the recipient currently uses a Wilson Benesch Circle, which has caused him aural pain ever since he first heard the Lenco in the Wyetech Labs system). The fellow's system consists of top-of-the-line Wyetech electronics and Coincident Victory speakers. I thought I'd NEVER finish this project!! Tomorrow night I go over with the Lenco for a few hours of listening and, of course, a bout of Crush the Belt-Drive yippee!!!

Speaking of Crush the Belt-Drive (and Direct Drive), I still receive occasional e-mails from the erstwhile PLatine Verdier owner (and Cain & Cain 301 owner) that the Giant single-plinth Diect Coupled Garrard 301 blows him away, and the owner of the EMT signs himself The Lenco Man. Those looking for that Final Turntable are foolish to ignore the Mighty Idler, and time will prove me right (as it already is as I climb and conquer the Ladder of Belt-Drive - and Direct Drive - being).

In other news, my distributor of, among other things, high-end belt-drives, has just received his second Lenco (the first for his home, the second to help demonstrate his other wares). HERE's a fellow who can rise above his prejudices!: though he distributes high-end belt-drives, he is totally enthusiastic about the Lencos. Meanwhile, another fellow who came to audition the Maplenoll is precisely the opposite (and relatively destitute): upon entering my listening room, he saw the Lenco and said "Oh, an idler, it's OK if that's your thing". I didn't want to play the Lenco, as I knew he would come to the erroneous conclusion the Maplenoll sucked (instead of the correct one that the Lenco/Idler is Mighty).

A friend of mine was in the room, in fact the erstwhile owner of the Maplenoll, who was still wondering if the Lenco was really that much better (he had never compared them in an A/B, and the Maplenoll truly is an excellent belt-drive), and heard the Maplenoll and was impressed. Meanwhile, the fellow was going on about idlers rumbling and being only "for certain tastes", and seeing that he wasn't serious about the Maplenoll and it was a waste of time (the Hell with it), I turned on the Lenco, played the same record (some Art of Noise), and said "Here's your rumble". The background was silent, but more than that, the increase in bass, dynamics, detail, imaging, in fact everything everywhere, was shocking. My friend was sitting there in shock. As to the fellow, water off a duck's back, he was deaf to the whole thing, or decided the Maplenoll was crap, and walked out as if nothing had happened. Invincible prejudice/stupidity. This type of prejudice only ensures limitations: such a person will always miss the possibilities and wallow in mediocrity and mistaken assumptions. So be it.

Meanwhile, my friend, who was luke-warm before, is now clamoring for a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco, and is utterly converted. The moral of the story is: Prejudice leads to deafness in audio and aural unhappiness.

Enjoy your Idlers all, May the Wheel Be With You!! Time to get back to the shop and do my final run: the Cypriot Lenco.

Hi Mario, you don't know the half of it: I also have a Rek-o-Kut Rondine Jr., and it too has a metal motor spindle and smaller wheel!! The Idler Gods certainly smile upon me, beginning in that fleamarket in Helsinki :-). Other than "Rondine" written in cursive Art Deco script, I have seen nothing else written on these, I'll look next time I go to the workshop, which is out in the country.

Congratulations Stefanl, nice catch/price, now you become a SERIOUS Lencoer!!

Over here I had not had time to try my Rega RB-300 seriously ever since I built my own Giant Lenco (Mr. Red), and so I set it up this past weekend. My God the MUSICALITY!! I was astounded!! This against a context of a parade of high-end tonearms running through my system, all of which have been stellar in various ways. But this shows me those vintage tonearms I was playing with before really did have some sort of edge in the musicality sweepstakes over modern high-end tonearms, as the Rega, though always stellar, did not match the others for overall musicality. But the first thing which struck me when I mounted it (rewired with my fave Cardas/Music Boy recipe), with the Ortofon Jubilee, on Mr. Red, was the BIG increase in musicality - smoothness, liquidity, wholeness/gestalt, PRaT, flow - ahhhhh, I'm back home again.

Then I mounted the Denon DL-103"E" to the Rega and the music jumped up again in intensity, and for the first time via the Klipsch, the Kundalini Effect!! A miracle hallelujah!! I also learned something about synergies, as while with my other speakers the Denon definitely sounded better via my active step-up, via the Klipsch the Kundalini Effect (ultra-intense PRaT) only manifested itself when I switched the Denon to the Fidelity Research transformer I have.

Now, the RS Labs certainly extracts more from the Denon in terms of detail, slam, soundstaging, dynamics and utter lack of nasties than the Rega, but the Rega has a Grado-type gestalt, and perhaps PRaT, which eludes almost everything else (excepting the SME V, which is the Denon's natural partner, strangely enough).

Anyway, I'm SO happy to have the Lenco/Rega together again, more experiments ahead!! Have fun all, and remember, the minute you change a single element in your system, all conclusions as to synergies goes out the window, it's a complicated old world. Which is why we all endlessly experiment, is it not? And thanks for the kind words Harry, keep enjoying your idlers!! Back to my Lenco/Rega/Denon, playing Kraftwerk SO liquidly/flowingly, ahhhh :-)

Hi Glenn, there are indeed two little teflon washers, one on either side of the wheel. These silence the scrapings of the wheel, and should be greased on both sides for best performance. Good luck finding one, can't remember if this was addressed over the years.

Hi Ronnie, reminds me of my first Lenco of all, sitting on stilts with just the Rega bolted in the tonearm-hole. Minus the big white brick of course ;-).

Up here I've just finished another Giant Lenco, the Burgundy Bomb, and listening to it with the RS-A1/Denon DL-103"E" I am once again amazed: it's hard to believe ALL Lencos can sound this good, and so before playing a new one I always expect it to be a disappointment, and am always delighted to be proved wrong!!

The instantly-recognized Lenco sound can be summed up in two words: "Unstoppable" and "Liquid". There is an inevitable POWER to the sound of the Lenco, a sort of juggernaut-type unstoppable sound - which is speed stability SO potent it is actually audible - allied to an utterly fluid and ultra-finely-grained smoothness which is purely liquid. As often written, like the aural equivalent of the Amazon in full flood: Unstoppable, and liquid. Add in ultra-accurate and razor-sharp transients, unbelievable amounts of detail, unmatched gestalt, ultra-deep and limitless and TIGHT bass, limitless dynamics, a soundstage as wide and deep as the Pacific, and you have the case of the Mighty Lenco: the turntable which is SO unbelievably good that even after three years of total conversions - and gaining in frequency, and replacing pricier and pricier belt-drives and yes, DDs - witnesses to the Lenco/Idler Phenomenon cannot believe it is for real.

In fact, I've thought about this often: if the Lenco were not quite as good as it is, acceptance of its Greatness would actually likely be more advanced than it is today. But so incredibly, unbelievably good is the Lenco (and so proving the case of the Idler-Wheel Potency), that this leads to strong (but accurate) language which leads onlookers to dismiss it as wishful thinking. Right now Eurythmics "Touch" is playing, and NEVER have I heard it hit with such transient alacrity/agility/speed/slam, backed up by POWER and PRaT which makes one get up and dance, and shiver and shake uncontrollably...yes: the Kundalini Effect!!!! Dismiss as hyperbole you watchers out there, and deny yourselves what it is you all claim to be seeking.

Cheap to buy a Lenco, simply sit it up on stalks like Ronnie or on bricks like Palmnell long ago, and find out just where your pricey overengineered (and underperforming, as you would find out) belt-drive rates!!! I just received an e-mail from a group of fellows who, reading the 6moons preview, set up a Lenco - unmodded, untweaked, unrestored - and were utterly blown away when they set it up against a pricey belt-drive, which shall remain unnamed for now.

Why is the Lenco so good? There is a logical reason: speed stability. That's it. It demonstrates just how bad belt-drives are, and just how audible the complex circuitry in DDs are. Of the three systems, the idler - which was built and developed specifically to combat Stylus Force Drag (the braking action of the stylus in the groove) - is the superior one. Decades of development of what was a good idea to begin with (as opposed to belt-drive, which was a bad idea to begin with), which is today continuing with the ongoing Idler Revolution!!

The Lenco especially relies to a large extent on pure physical fluid momentum to achieve its particular form of speed stability: the flywheel platter (much more of a flywheel than any other idler ever made), coupled delicately to its vertical (and very thin and accurate) wheel which does not pull or push the platter to either side, leaving the platter to spin like a top with an inexhaustible source of energy, the 1800-rpm cogless motor. Platter-motor, motor-platter, a closed system which, once again, utterly ignores the existence of stylus force drag, and at the same time provides an extremely sophisticated and unstoppable 33 1/3 RPM.

Speed stability figures for belt-drives are evidently averaged out, as are those of DDs as comparison to Lencos makes ultra-evident. Where the Lencos and other large idlers score is down down down to the micro level. Current speed stability figures are like using rulers in which the smallest graduations are centimeters to measure millimeters. The incredible musical prowess of the Lencos demonstrates that the human ear is MORE sensitive to speed instabilities at the micro/(millimeter)-level where idlers rule than at the macro level where, perhaps (think loaded dice and the three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics), high-mass belt-drives achieve better figures, when averaged out. Where's my proof you ask? My proof is this: listen to a Lenco, and Dare to Compare.

While Lencos sitting on bricks and perched on stilts sound great, what mass brings to the party is this: greater extension at both frequency extremes, more silence, more detail, more dynamics and slam, and the reason for all this is partly increased speed stability. Yes, being nailed to a very large plinth prevents the Lenco from moving however minutely, and concentrates all the Lenco energies on its amazing Mill: the closed-system platter-motor motor-platter, with the vertical wheel delicately and unintrusively acting as Liaison.

All these things will be proven with time, the Great Audio Ladder is being climbed, the Audio Gods are with us!! In the meantime, enjoy your Lencos and other idlers all!!

I'm back to discuss the RS Labs RS-A1/Denon DL-103"E" combo: it is superb, and could easily be that mythical thing, the Final Analogue Set-Up! I've just discovered the key to this combo - so it performs as well in the bass as it does everywhere else, which is to say fully and perfectly - is solidity. Either it should be mounted on a thick and solid tonearm-board (I made an extra-thick one of walnut bonded to birch-ply), or directly to the plinth (the RS-A1 directly on the plinth the Lenco is set-up on provides perfect VTA).

As I've written before, in musical terms - i.e. SLAM, PRaT, gestalt, naturalness and tonal "unexaggeratedness" - the "humble Denon DL-103 is the King of MCs. But mount it on a tonearm which truly realizes its potential - and so far in my experience this means either the SME V (pricey) or the RS-A1 (at the price an incredible bargoon, given it ranks as one of the Best Tonearms in the World at $1350 full retail) - and it becomes a prime detail-meister as well, especially if it has the elliptical tip (80 euros for the re-tip from phonophono in Berlin).

I cannot get over just how incredible this match - Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco, RS-A1, Denon DL-103"E" (regular 103 with elliptical tip) - is!! It has as much musical magic as I've ever heard from anything, dynamics to blow the furniture out of the room, it has the detail of $5K tonearms allied to state of the art MCs, AND it's dead quiet and picks up none of the Mighty Motor's electrical field, even when the cartridge rides directly over the motor (and the arms wires are totally exposed, and there's no ground wire for the tonearm, perhaps that's why?)!! AND it's dead quiet in the groove!!! As to PRaT, I've never heard its equal, and the bass detail is better than I've heard from the Denon (and pretty well anything else) except when its mounted on the SME V.

The Lenco, which may well rank with the Best in the World (or better ;-)) when properly optimized, is an incredible bargain. The RS Labs RS-A1, which ranks with the Best in the World (when matched to the Denon especially) is an incredible bargain. The Denon DL-103, when one concentrates on the music instead of the information (and even on the information...when mounted on the RS-A1), is King of MCs, musically-speaking (and in many important audiophile areas as well, such as imaging and balance). Put them all together, and you have a combo which for many will be their Last of All Time. The strengths of MMs (gestalt, PRaT, warmth) allied to the strengths of MCs (speed, detail), and pumped up to the MAX via the Giant Lenco, yikes!!

Enjoy your Lencos and other idlers all!!

Hi Sixfigure, dammit that's the second meet-up I'll miss by a month or so, just got an e-mail this morning from an old friend who will be on one of my favourite Greek islands....exactly a month before I get there. I'll only be landing in Athens at the end of the first week of June, and don't expect to make it to Cyprus until the end of June/beginning of July. If you have reason to make it to that part of the world at that time, or at the end of July/beginning of August when I will be making a re-appearance there, then feel free to join us (of course, Srajan is the host and must be consulted).

But the Mediterranean or not, you owe it to yourself to hear a Mighty Lenco some way, somehow, just fire me an e-mail and I'll see if there's one in your part of the world. There's a regular battalion of Lenco owners forming up in the Washington D.C. area! Why? Hearing is believing, and some Giant Direct Coupled Lencos are there to hear :-). Also groups forming up in Colorado and Oregon and other scattered Lencos, and of course my own area where again, hearing is believing. Great to see you concentrating on the magic!

Thanks for the encouragement Bob, your enthusiasm is always much appreciated!!

Over here I enjoyed another bout of Crush the Belt-Drive, this time my own turntable in my own system! I've decided it was finally time to sell my Maplenoll, and so I carefully set it up for demonstration, and in setting it up in my system it sounded glorious. The Maplenoll rightly has an excellent sonic reputation (though criticized for build quality, I was the unofficial Maplenoll technician in my area and discovered secrets for flawless performance). For context, a fellow had recently contacted me, having discovered my participation in older Maplenoll threads on other forums, and contacted me. He wrote me to say he had a VPI TNT which was inferior to the Maplenoll in performance, and wondered if I had any tips to further the performance. In addition to being superb in terms of the usual audiophile obsessions - detail, frequency extension, imaging, and so forth - the reason the Maplenoll was my main source for so many years was its thunderous bass, amazing dynamics and incredible PRaT, being a true music-meister.

So, set up in my system it sounded glorious, so much so I worried, so I moved the same album over to the Lenco to settle the issue. WHAT a killing!! The bass which had been superb on the Maplenoll deepened and became much faster and more dynamic. Transparency - again superb on the Maplenoll - increased a hundredfold, details came out which were simply inaudible on the Maplenoll. Transient speed and dynamics macro- and micro- increased to an incredible degree. Even imaging, where the Maplenoll excels due to its linear-tracking tonearm, improved drastically via the Lenco (using the admittedly imaging-excellent RS-A1 tonearm)!

Finally, the musicality - gestalt, PRaT, entrancement - increased to a supernatural degree, to the point where I ended up once again in a multi-hour LP listening Mega-Session! I just hope none of those who may be considering the Maplenoll are reading this ;-)!

I've built myself a new Reference Lenco/Review Prototype for demonstration purposes, the Bauhaus Lenco, with single tonearm, that being the RS-A1 (with Denon DL-103"E"). The angular black-and-silver RS-A1 makes of the black-lacquered Lenco plinth with gray-recoated top-plate and platter a Bauhausian feast for the eyes (I like it anyway), simple, yet modern, a fortuitous accident! I'll include it under my "system". Have fun with your idlers all, WHAT music!!

Hi M16707, congratulations on your score! I've used both to great effect on Lencos, the ADC especially prefers the low-mass SME IIIs, on which it sounds incredibly musical, which would also be a good match for the Ortofon. The Ortofon would also sound good on a Black Widow, or a SME 3009 MKII with fixed headshell (low-mass too) and especially a Mayware low-mass unipivot (especialy if you can manage to re-wire it), and these would also sound great with the ADC! Can't wait to eventually get back to my vintage tonearms for some fun myself. Have fun!

Hi Helen, congratulations on discovering the Glories of the Lenco/Rega, and of course of a great MM, by all accounts. The MM vs MC debate is not over yet :-)!! Good and cheaper substitutes for the Quads are speakers with various alternative tweeters, such as ribbons (of course), and the Heil Air Motion Tranformers, such as those in my ESS AMT4s. While I think it would be very hard to find ESS speakes in Europe, there are current speakers using these elements, including of course Heil speakers, and Elac (speaking of idlers!!). Infinity built and marketed several ribbon-tweeter speakers in Europe and there are other sources too. Of course, these are all hybrids (ribbon/AMT tweeters, cone bass drivers), but they do catch a large chunk of the planar magic (my ESS are still unsurpassed in the mid/highs, and I'm in fact looking forward to setting them up again).

As to the Lenco/Rega, after years of this thread and reported experiments and comparisons, it's not so much that the Lenco/Rega is in particular a synergy, but that indeed the better the tonearms mounted to the Lenco, the greater the results, period. This is, of course, mostly in terms of information-retrieval. The Decca is still perhaps the most PRaT-ful tonearm ever made, thought the RS Labs might give it a good run for its money. The Dynavector 507 MKII (very pricey), is also incredibly musical. The SME V/Denon DL-103 combo is EXPLOSIVE, and has supernatural PRaT, and incredible detail too. ALL tonearms so far tested have sounded incredible on the Lenco....provided, of course, the proper synergy is found. Some cartridges favour certain tonearms, and preamps and phono stages too. Even transformers and active head amps extract different things from different combos: a 'table/tonearm/cartridge combo which works in one set-up may not in the next (and vice-versa), as there are preamp and phono stage electrical issues to consider as well. And even then we're not out of the woods, as a change of speakers can change what one had previously concluded and thought settled. A great 'table/tonearm/cartridge/phono stage set-up, as I discovered when I tried the RS Labs/Denon via my FR transformer - which did not sound as good as my active step-up via every other speaker I had - sounded better with it via my Klipsch Heresies! Remember to make no ultimate judgments all, excepting of course, the Mighty Lenco and other idler wheels, which underpin all said set-ups, and reliably outperform, well, everything thrown at them so far, in every system!! I LOVE that reliability/dependability :-)!!

On the exciting news front, I just booked my ticket to Greece, and am working on a prototype of the Lenco/plinth I'll be sending to Cyprus, assuming I get that far. I'll take the steps, and hope for the best!! Of course, I'll be sending my usual Russian birch-ply/MDF recipe, continuing the Great Traditions of Accumulating Evidence and Putting my Money Where my Mouth Is. Let's put it on the line.

Let's consider what this recipe has accomplished, when applied to a Garrard 301/Dynavector 507 MKII/Denon DL-103 in a very high-end system, pitted against both a Platine Verdier/Koetsu Urushi and a Cain & Cain low-mass, two-tier plinth: "Well, got the stock i/c on the Dyna, and not all tweaked yet, and nothing sitting on stand, without isolation, and it betters the Verdier/Koetu Urishi on a special Isolation stand...I am candidly surprised. I did not expect this. I had the the Cain and Cain plinth and it did not sound good. This is way above. The 301 is incredible in your plinth. It has only the inexpensive Denon 103 R and that is not redone yet...and only a stock cable and it is better by a long ways than the Verdier on a special isolation table. Next I will try the Koetsu in the arm....and in my best phono stage and see. Damn...don’t let this get out, or it will ruin the high end." I'll post a photo under my system of the Garrard sitting next to the Platine. So there you see why I am so confident of this recipe, which has also, let us be reminded all, the fabulous EMTs, which make the rabid anti-Lenco Garrard-ers quake in their boots and drool. For reference, the Cain & Cain did not sound good in that system, compared to the Platine Verdier. This changed, however, when the Garrard had been properly restored, and built into a high-mass Russian birch-ply/MDF plinth, with no tricky separate tonearm pod. We'll know more once the Lenco sails to Cyprus (assuming it does, knock on wood).

Have fun with all your audio experiments all!

Hi Bob, so far, so good, it at least looks as if there is a very good chance of a review, knock on a few tons of lumber, or perhaps a forest ;-), this is complicated and pricey! I have to say the Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco with RS is one of the most amazing, musical, magical, detailed and exciting combos I've ever heard (I can't stop marveling anyway, with Denon DL-103"E" from phonophono), so that at least is a nice bit of synchronicity, considering the tonearm being provided for the review is indeed the RS-A1 (though I may include a more user-friendly tonearm for the review for more casual use).

Tomorrow I deliver the prototype of the design to the lacquerer's to find out how that works out, so we'll know soon. The top-plate and platter have already been recoated. I even have someone who will build me a shipping crate!

As to e-mails, we'll see. I like freedom in my travels, which comes before all, and which is why I travel ;-), but I'll chime in with any big news if it is appropriate to do so (or maybe I'll leave it as a big surprise when Srajan publishes the review), keep your eyes open, watch this space!

Veerrrryyy interesting bit of information there Gene, I love these tidbits of idle info :-)!

This weekend I hope to mount my JMW/Ortofon Jubilee combo on my Bauhaus Lenco and report back on it, a tonearm which, also rather incredibly given its size and apparent mass, sounded utterly amazing with the vintage, high-compliance AKG P8ES MM, a Classic. Keep your eyes peeled for vintage classics all, a lot of fun and satisfaction to be had there!

Hi Richard, this is in the context of the post I was responding to from Kravi4ka - "had decided to make it the classic 23X19X6" - which is the Classic Giant as has been a running theme for well over a year now, why is why Kravi4ka refers to it as "classic." It's further explained by my own: "As to Mass, while Mass is Class, I find that the "magic" weight - at which point the Lenco not only improves but transforms upwards to a whole new Level of Being (perhaps the Best in the World, GASP!) - is reached at 70-80 pounds, after which it is just more improvements. I design in order to be practical: the magic weight is 80 pounds or so, more than this will be a problem both in the present and in the future, and is already a challenge."

The Giant Lenco "classic" weight/size as Kravi4ka says, assuming Baltic birch/MDF, is indeed 23" x 19" x 6", which indeed, made my "my jaw hit the floor" exactly as claimed. More than this seems to have MUCH less effect than the transition from 40 pounds to 70-80 pounds. Less than this, considering the HUGE gains made when crossing this size/mass barrier, should only be considered if space constraints are truly insurmountable. Which is why I am shipping a Giant Lenco to Cyprus, though it profoundly affects the cost of the whole enterprise. Perhaps a doubling of the mass over this "magic point" is required to have a profound effect, but I don't think so, and anyway, it is highly impractical. Maybe I'll try it after Greece, but I don't know how I will get it onto the stand!

Hi Tessera, to answer your second question first, the best source of replacement parts including metal wheels ate the Lenco B55s and variants, which go cheaper as they have the cheaper pressed-metal platters and smaller main bearings. They have the superb Lenco motors and also the metal wheels.

As to aluminum, what it does is provide rigidity, which isn't the same thing as damping/killing vibration/noise. In a context of Direct Coupling (which can't be done with metal or stone), wood is very much more effective at this. Better to stick with maple and MDF or birch-ply. Though a slab/layer of metal somewhere in there would increase strength/rigidity, sonic improvement is not a forgone conclusion, more experiments at the end of the summer!

The Review Lenco is at the lacquerer's, hoping it'll be done in time for my flight!! Wish me luck all!

Hi Michael, thanks for the encouragement, and for the excellent, detailed and informative review!!

For particulars on the Review Lenco I'll be sending to Cyprus to further the Lenco - and Idler - Name, it will be a two-tonearm Lenco, as asking a novice to use an RS-A1 regularly and exclusively is just plain cruel (though NOT sonically) :-). The RS will sit in the back left corner, and the second tonearm - still to be determined - will sit on the front right.

As written, it'll be finished in '57 Chevy colours, to emphasize the roll-your-own freedom and fun aspects which have always been central to this and the original threads. I'll be rebuilding a used older Swiss Lenco L75, no NOS parts, so everyone will know the astounding quality of these old machines, again as already developed since the early days of the original Home Despot thread: this beast will be a proper and fitting Ambassador of these threads, and I thank all those who have contributed to its success - and the consequent bringing to light of the mightiness of the Mighty Lenco - over the years, and those who have offered encouragement. This'll be a review of the Child of Da Thread(s)!! Which means: Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced birch-ply/MDF Lenco L75, with all original parts.

I'm working today on rebuilding the motor and associated hardware while the plinth sits at the lacquerer's, and hope to have it all together, tested and ready to pack by early next week. Then it begins its sea voyage to the Eastern Mediterranean where, lucky me, I will meet it for a musical love-fest in Srajan Ebaen's various soundrooms!!

Anyway, back to work, have fun with your Lencos and various idlers all!! Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!!

Hi all, just a quickie here Tessera: I went to an Independent Grocer and found Cameo right there on the shelf, also often found in Loeb's or Loblaws, if not indeed at the Home Hardware. Rubber Renew is found at electronics stores, but lacquer thinner - also at Home Hardware :-) - is just as good.

The Lenco/RS-A1/Denon DL-103 combo is one of the most ELECTRIFYING and exciting/musical combos I have ever heard, and the RS tonearm SO good that the Denon on it matches a state-of-the-art cartridge on almost any other tonearm in terms of detail! Given their respective prices, a helluva bargain, especially when you throw in the Mighty Lenco :-)!! If a thief were to break into my home and steal every tonearm and cartridge I had, but left the RS/Denon behind, I could easily live with it as my sole combo for the rest of my life, it does NOTHING wrong, musically-speaking. The JMW with a good MC, however, is more perfectly balanced and neutral (The RS is not strictly neutral), so it's sophistication vs DRAMA and fire (not that the JMW/MC -- and various MMs - is lacking in excitement). Another great combo is the MG-1/Dyna 17D MKIII, which together on the Lenco is FIRE AND balance!! Likely other great combos out there too (low-mass/Grado, RS/MM, etc.)!

Enjoy your idlers all!!

Great sentiment Bob, I've lived my life by it so far, why stop now :-)!? Speaking of sailing, the Green Monster has just been picked up for shipping by sea to Cyprus! Let's hope the boat doesn't sink on the way there. Strange coincidence, it turns out I lacquered the Lenco the same shade of green as Srajan's Zu speakers!! Can you beat that?!? The Audio Gods are with me :-) !!

And speaking of yet more sailing, I decided to let the preview guide my trip. I didn't know at the time I sent the e-mails which were quoted that they would be quoted, and they mentioned that I had often stopped off on Cyprus and my way from Greece to Israel/Egypt and back again. So I got my Egyptian visa, and if time and money permits, I will do exactly that for the review, stopping by on my way back from Egypt by ship to assemble the Lenco and begin the review. Though with island-hopping and shipping I don't know if even two months allows me the time to do it. We'll see.

I'll be largely if not completely off-line for the next two months, at least on forums, so have a good summer all, and pray to the sea gods for me and the Giant Lenco!!

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and as always Vetterone, you choose to ignore the reports of Lencos beating EMTs, reported by their very owners (not all Lenco implementations are created equal, I am only interested in realizing the idler potential). The 80-pound plinth a band-aid? Might as well say as well the 70-pound platter is a band-aid (used in many belt-drives, and some at even greater weight/mass... a band-aid to cover speed instabilities...if looked at Vetterone's way). Where's the difference? And if it works, then your whole argument is moot, as it is (ALL solutions to problems of implementation of systems are in this sense band-aids, like the complex electronics necessary to make direct drive work without sounding like crap). Fact is, a large inert mass is necessary to realize the Lenco potential (made potent by direct coupling), and the potential of most if not all idler-wheel drives (as the comparions between the Cain & Cain Garrard and the Giant Direct Coupled Garrard testifies). Not all implementations are created equal.

And, despite the various personalities who have tried again and again to misrepresent my activities as aimed only at promoting Lencos the better to dishonestly discredit (i.e. "misrepresent") me - "Remember all, the Mighty Lenco is merely a tool (being cheap, and this is the real reason for the attacks, not to mention lowly envy/personal attacks/gadflies) to make the Greatness of the Idler-Wheel Drive known, and this has been a tremendous success..." - I have ALWAYS made clear that the Lenco was simply a means to demonstrating to the world the greatness of the idler-wheel drive system in general. More, these idler activities and discussions of speed stability and drive systems led to such companies as Teres and now VPI to reconsider the idler-wheel drive, and led to Teres' current rim drive, much as they may deny it.

As always and since the beginning, I have nothing to hide and do not operate from blind prejudice. I encouraged the world to rebuild the Lencos away from my control and report in public their findings. This is called a search for the actual facts. Lo and behold it turned out the whole world was wrong (except for perhaps two fellows, ignored and shouted down), the Lenco WAS brilliant as I claimed, and the idler-wheel system much better than generally thought. And fact is, nothing has yet managed to even come close to a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco as I have advised be made (tricky and difficult to implement, but as Tunin4fun, the owner of a collection of Garrards and EMTs demonstrated, well worth the effort). This philosophy of truthful enquiry (i.e. get people to try it in their own systems) led, due to its incredible success, to the longest-running thread in audio history at the time it was deleted, and sparked dedicated websites. And, as I wrote, the Teres will prove itself superior - or not - to the Lenco when it is compared to a Giant Direct-Coupled Lenco in the same process of actual comparison THEN judgment, as I have written previously.

Jejune, good moniker, if you haven't heard a Lenco then just stick to your prejudices. In the meantime, I will continue to encourage actual comparisons and experience of the reality until the Lenco meets its match, and the idler wheel drive has been accurately placed in engineering history. The whole point of this review. When you have something constructive and not ugly to add, feel free to return. To those watching, I do occasionally get irritated by these constant and unecessary ugly personal attacks, and occasionally lose my cool and reply (who wouldn't?). I always regret this, but if I were NOT this way, people like Jejune would have played pile on the rabbit (as they do and in fact did in the beginning over on that other forum) and would have crushed the whole Lenco/Idler venture early on, and the current Teres rim-drive would almost certainly not exist, and many would still jump on any who dared mention an idler/rim-drive in the same breath as a belt-drive (ditto for DD), as the case was when I started, and many now converted would still be miserably listening to their over-priced belt-drives. Thanks for making my point Jejune, keep it up.

To all who are watching, I have ALWAYS put my money where my mouth is, and thrown down the gauntlet, meaning that, I leave it to actual comparison - i.e. testing the theory (say, that the Teres with its 70-pound platter as opposed to the Lenco with its 70-pound plinth is superior) - to decide the issue, not endless and ugly personal attacks of the sort put forward by, say, Jejune. I have always tried to stick to the subject - TEST the theory, compare. I have NEVER initiated ugly personal attacks, and only very rarely responded in kind (and always at a MUCH lower level of ugliness), as is a matter of public record (for those who are interested in the truth and not their own prejudices/hatreds).

So, this is the point of the Lenco review, which, assuming it is ever released from Customs and the review to proceed (I'm beginning to wonder): a first professional and OBJECTIVE review of the Lenco, which will open the door to others, as has already happened for the Garrards and the Thorenses. THEN, with the years (evidently) we will know the truth of the matter, a first review is just an opening of the door.

Now, tomorrow I head to Egypt to bring costs down and see something REALLY interesting (though Jerusalem is an enormous buzz, incredible city which has me grinning like a Cheshire cat whenever I step into the electric souk/bazaaar streets), and from there I will have only very spotty acess to the internet, so feel free to indulge in yet more ugly personal attacks concerned fellows!! Erase me from my own activities, take credit, and use my own self-defense as an excuse to develop fresh venom. For thinking men (and for venomous "men" try to rise above the muck), keep an open mind and stick to the subject: I say the idler-wheel system is the best yet devised, let's actually test this out, avoid venom, and see. The Idler Wheel Revival taking place around the world is indeed very strong evidence for this, and even Teres' new rim-drive attests to it!

And finally, for those who just don't get it: this whole audio thing is just a tiny part of my life, and rather unimportant actually, except as it pertains to truth, I'm not an Audio Trekkie. My REAL passion, evidently, is seeing the world on extended months-long and years-long voyages, having adventures in unplanned fashion, and seeing what comes next (in fact, this whole Lenco venture is an example of this itself, an unplanned Movement rising from the Void). Throw in love/romance/women, fine foods and exotic or otherwise live music, and you have Jean, trapped between trips in Canada one fine winter, out of boredom remembering the anger he felt when he realized he and the world has been duped as far as the idler was concerned (on one of these trips/adventures, in Helsinki, with a beautiful woman), and starting a thread with the words Home Despot in them. It turned out to be a tremendous success, and became an enormous responsibility, which, Bohemian as I am, I feel intensely. This is the ONLY reason - and the pursuit and demonstration of the truth - I continue with this. I have often wondered if I should just disappear, but this would be granting to various ugly characters an undeserved victory, yet another responsibility. In other words, life, love, experience, are all FAR more important that audio, but audio too is a microcosm of the world, with its battles of truth vs deception, and even here, it seems, the battle must be fought. Be nice if the battles were more often about logic and evidence though, and less often - or not at all - envy, spite and status. I do, however, TRULY look forward to the day when I can with clear conscience be free of it, maybe even by the end of this trip!

In honour of Music, which IS an important experience/activity I grant you all, I go to hear a Bach performance in a courtyard next to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre tonight, and refresh my ears as to the sound of real instruments, in an amazing setting (just the way I like it). So, Vive la Lenco (which even if it turns out not to be the best is an incredible Gift), Vive la Idler (ditto), be back participating, if at all, likely aftere the review. Enjoy your summer all!!

Greetings from the Greek island of Rhodos all, a medieval fortress-city built by the Knights of St. John long ago, on the shores of the Aegean sea across from Turkey. A home away from home for me, where I've lived and worked at various reprises. I'm loving it all over again! I'm not entirely sad to report that the Irresitible Force - the Mighty Lenco - met the Immovable Object - Cypriot Customs - with the result that, despite the enormous (for me) amount of money and time and effort I invested, the review is cancelled. Why am I not entirely sad?!? Because, had it not been for the various trials and tribulations associated with making the review happen, I would not have contacted George Karaolides on Cyprus for help, and would not have landed in his living room soon after he had taken delivery of an EMT 930. So thank you Bob for setting this whole thng up, leading to the fasinating situation of a Giant Glass-Reinforced Direct Coupled Lenco being in the same room as an idler-wheel EMT 930. Pretty good shooting, blind from Canada to the eastern Mediterranean, I'd say ;-).

I've always been fortunate in my misfortunes, from the defective Garrard SP25 I was forced to strip down, thus discovering the ilder wheel principle; through the Lenco I was forced to accept instead of the Garrard I was looking for, to the moment of boredom which led me to discovering Audiogon. Now I have landed the Lenco in the same room as an EMT 930 - with myself present for once for the comparison - something I could not have done in Canada!!!

The EMT in question had been worked on and fully restored by two of Europe's leading experts, one providing the latest and greatest suspended metal frame, and the other doing the actual EMT, at a total cost of 9,000 euros, 11,000 once the matching EMT headshell is included.

Among the many misfortunes which plagued me as I approached Cyprus was the discovery that after all the RS Labs RS-A was not, due to problems, being included by the distributor for the review, something which I had been banking on. Fortunately, I had a good friend of mine riffle through my things back at the farmhouse back in Canada, who discovered the arm and airmailed it to me, with the result it arrived in time for me to use it to set up the as-yet incomplete EMT (still missing the specific and necessary headshell and cartridge).

Now this is a great story in its own right: George was a teacher of physics, and as a physicist - who nevertheless loves vinyl and analogue - he was in the habit of saying "vinyl sucks". Whenever I heard this I would correct him and say that if he thought so it was because he had not heard vinyl yet, not having heard it on a properly set-up idler-wheel drive. Of course, he took this with a couple of pounds of salt. So we set up the EMT with the Shure V15V on the RS-A1, plugged it into his electronics and via his Quad ESL-57 speakers, and George was, as he put it, shocked, speechless, and astounded. He and his partner in business Stan, who are developing an audio business (with manufacturing in mind, which explains the investment in the EMT as a Reference Source) admitted that it sounded like master tape, and they should know, as one of their hobbies is taping professional musicians in various venues on their reel-to-reel, I think a Revox, George will eventually chime in to correct me if needed on this score. Stan, also astounded, went so far as to say the EMT/RS-A1/Shure combo were superior to their master tapes, and it was eventually worked out that this was due to the original mastering equipment being superior to their own. Thus was the work and the investment vindicated, the EMT is a truly Great and stunning machine.

I waited three weeks on Cyprus for the Lenco to be released, and afer that gave up and headed to Israel and Egypt, where I waited for another three weeks before it was decided to cancel the review. Eventually the Lenoc WAS released, and since the European motor I had had shipped also surfaced (also held by Customs all that time), I decided to head back to Cyprus after all to at least finish the Lenco and find out for myself (having to rely on second hand accounts which are nevertheless reliable since they are from the very owners of the EMTs conecerned, let it be emphasized and noted) how the Lenco rated agaisnt what is considered by the cognoscenti the second-best idler in the world, the best being the larger EMT 927. I had originally planned on three days as sufficient to accomplising this, but due to various new disasters this was reduced to ONE DAY.

I arrived in Cyrus exhausted by yet further adventures/misadventures, to be confronted with a Lenco antique: the motor was corroded and cobwebbed, and was one of the very early types with three pins to select voltage. Not having any choice, we went out and bought the necessary materials, and I proceeded to rebuild and restore the motor. Yet further difficulties (they've never heard of Robertson screw tips!!!) and finally we had the motor installed, and both George and Stan present.

First impressions were about even, with different presentations (Lenco sharper, EMT "bigger," imaging different from each, Lenco forward, EMT backward) but with an annoying hardening/brightness emanating from the Lenco, which worried me (this being one of the dangers of unsuccessful Direct Coupling). Stan couldn't stand it and, to be frank, neither could I. But, in plugging in the EMT, which required unplugging the lamp standing over the Lenco, the brightness disappeared. So, the playing field began to be a contest in earnest, as it turned out that the lamp was the culprit. Now both machines were incredibly musically compelling, and George kept on saying "Thank you both for installing such incredible machines in my listening room!" But there were still some serious differences in the presentation of both machines.

But, NOW there as an annoying noise emanating from the Lenco, and this I tracked to the different VTAs reached by the RS-A!/Shure combo on both machines. I raised the RS-A1 on the Lenco, and the low-frequency scraping, AND presentation changed drastically. NOW the Lenco pulled ahead in audiophile terms, being significantly superior in its ability to resolve dense an complex passages, with finer and more extended high frequencies, and significantly better resolution of detail. Musically, they were both incredibly powerful, with the EMT having a bouncy rhythmic presentation, while the Lenco, as I've written countless times, had that characteristic unstoppable "Amazon in full flow" sound of limitless power and even presentation. The EMT was bigger and warmer sounding, the Lenco more razor-sharp and resolving. I believe the EMT's warmth is directly related to its loss of detail relative to the Lenco, its warmth being in fact "fuzziness". Why fuzziness? Because the Lenco was Direct Coupled to a large non-resonant mass, while the EMT, due its design, cannot be. Further, the EMT chassis is made of bakelite, not metal, a plastic which fails to deal with the enormous energies. Furthermore, the EMT's "bouncy/engaging" quality will, I predict, be found to be a colouration (we'll wait for George and Stan's further tests and comparisons), as this is precisely how the Lenco sounds when mounted in a low-mass plinth. The unstoppable quality has perfect timing, and reaches far more deeply into the guts/emotions/power of a performance, as the more subtle timing relationships are actually obscured by the "bouncy" quality, while they are revealed by the perfect evenness of the Amazonian Giant Mass.

Now, over the years I have proven my integrity and truthfulness. While I may not gracefully accept the various jibes, misrepresentations and frankly, lies (how else to describe claims I had written or said what I have never written or said?), punted out there about me, being as diplomatic at times as my opponents are; my reputation for fair reporting is deserved, and I do not misrepresent here. A Giant Direct Coupled Glass Reinforced Lenco is, overall and in audiopile terms (some may prefer the EMT warmth/bigness) superior to an EMT 930, and very likely all the other EMTs as well, especially given Tunein4fun's testimony, now vindicated. Now I don't say this is because the Lenco is inherently superior to the EMT (though it is becoming apparent that the Lenco is MUCH, MUCH better than originally thought), but instead because it can be Direct Coupled to a large non-resonant mass. Further, tests like these (and others like the Crush the Belt-Drive events), reveal that the combination of MDF and Russian birch-ply is incrdibly neutral, and friendly to the preservation/revelation of dynamics, being furthermore even across the frequency spectrum in all respects: incredbly extended from the lowest bass to the highest highs, with everything in-between in its proper perspective and relation, both in temrs of frequency and dynamics. If I continue to promote Giant Direct Coupled plinths for idlers it is because of the same old mission: to ensure that idlers being built out there and compared are preforming to their utmost so no false/hasty conclusions are come to. If I am now building and making these available to others, it's because of the old adage, "if you want something done right, then do it yourself." Many are in love with complexity for the sake of complexity, and a single non-resonant mass is, for them, too simple a solution, and so they oppose it. Other are disappointed if exotic Unobtainium is not included, and in this too they have been adversely influenced by high-end magazines. What IS superior is what is more effective, and if this is both simple and easily obtainable, then so much the better, as it keeps costs down, and makes it more uiversally accessible.

So I'll explain once again: a single, high, non-resonant mass quite simply prevents the enormously powerful motors in these old machines from moving, to whatever degree, the entire turntable. So long as the mass is insufficient to prevent this, the motion translates into speed instabilities. The 80-pound mass vs the 40-pound mass simply stops any extraneous, and damaging, motion, and focuses the motor's entire energies on simply revolving the platter at the correct, and unstoppable, speed, as Stylus Force Drag is a MUCH more serious problem than previously believed. The Direct Coupling increases the effectiveness of the mass, plus it provides a MUCH more effective way of sinking noise from every source, providing a jet-black background against which the incredibly potency of the idler motor and system can be heard, that master-tape-like result which so astounded George and Stan.

Finally, a Giant Direct Coupled plinth can be fairly easily (or rather relatively) accomplished, not requiring the years of effort an extremely complex assembly requires, and so makes the astounding results more accessible to the world at large, and ensures, according to my own personal mission, that the idlers be heard in their greatest glory in larger numbers and across more countries, cities, listening rooms. I'm not saying that there is not or will never be an improvement on this simple and sensible, recipe, just that effectively, I am extracting results which many fail to do, thus proving the extreme effectiveness of this recipe.

Finally, according to many out there, the Lenco STILL ranks behind the Garrard and with the EMTs at the top, and isn't it interesting that this is the precise ladder of cost, with the Lenco cheapest, the Garrards more expensive, and the EMTs most expensive of all? Ths is the same old Audio as Status problem raising its head after all these years, and it was my stance against this which was the true reason for the original threads's success in the beginning: bucking the system. Always a rebel, never a conformist it appears. I'll say this too, though many of my most "rabid" opponents will LOVE this: Having heard the SIGNIFICANT gap, in audiophile terms (NOT musicaltiy), between the EMT 930 and the Giant Direct Coupled Glass Reinforced Lenco, I can with confidence say that the Garrard also is superior to the EMT 930 (and ths also of the lesser direct drives, and likley the EMT 927 too), PROVIDED, you guessed it, it is Direct Coupled to a high non-resonant mass.

So, all that said, I'll continue reporting my favourite sport of Crush the Belt-Drive, as right now I am FINALLY conquering that most resistant of audiophile pockets, my own home town, who while I was away obtained my own Bauhaus Lenco, and are currently being mass-converted to the Mightiness of the Idler and the Lenco. One's own home town or country is ALWAYS the toughest to conquer, which is why so many Canadian musicians, for istance, Neil Young, Joni Mithell, etc.) end up living in the US. And it started with the Crushing of a late-edition TNT/Graham 2.2 combo. Other pricier and well-respected belt-drives wait to be Crushed (THAT battle still cotinues, though we are definitely making inroads), and the only way I can access these is to sell Giant Direct Coupled Glass Reinforced Lencos to the men who own the truly megabuck belt-drives. I want to work my way up the ladder all the way to the $100K league, and settle this issue once and for all.

For the record, I do not like and never intended doing competitions between various idlers, I have always used the cheap and numerous Lencos to prove the superiority of the idler wheel drive system, as I have written from the very beginning. The Lenco is not necessarily inherently superior to the EMT: it is its ability to be Direct Coupled which accounts for its icredible abilities. This is the best and simplest way to deal with the idler-wheel system's defects (a too-powerful motor, but just powerful enough to deal with Stylus Force Drag), and to extract the MOST with the LEAST effort and materials. To those who want to experiment and are evidently having fun, I enourage and cheer you on, but this is separate from my mission to prove the idler's superiority to the other two systems: belt-drive and direct drive.

On the subject of direct drive: I am not so much opposed to direct drives in general (though I AM confident that the idler is superior, but we'll see), as to the use of quartz-locking in direct drives, which I beleve is audible, negatively, by the human ear. I was suprised when I first heard the servo-controlled Technics SL-1100, which unlike my SP-10 MKII was fluid and musical (instead of dry and unmusical), and was REALLY gobsmaked by the incredible filigree-detailed and fluid servo-controlled Sony 2250/2251. So I am truly looking forward to building one of these into a high non-resonant plinth (AND, of course, Direct Coupled) to see what it can REALLY do. Perhaps I am wrong about the inherent superiority of the idler, and, as I've reversed myself before when confronted with FACTS (i.e. actual comparisons, such a 40 pounds vs 80 pounds), I'll reverse myself here. I am DYING of curiosity and, after all my misadventures, truly look forward to getting back to my workshop.

And good news to those who want MORE budget Giant Killers: I want to emphasize to all that the EMT is a truly ASTOUNDING machine, compelling, master-tape-like, POWERFUL, but, and there's always a but, I couldn't help thinking "Rek-o-Kut Rondine" when I heard it as, to my ears, they sounded precisely alike, and interstingly, via the same speakers, Quad ESL-57s. So I'll be rebuilding and reporting on this as well when I get back. I'm dying to get back to my workshop!!

Finally, I hope we can all simply stick to the subject, deal with logic, engineering problems and solutions, and leave all the personal crap behind and revert back to reason, discussions, evidence, information-swapping, start with a clean slate. To those who accuse me of "big words", I say, I post the words of the owners of the machines being "crushed", this is good evidence, the testimony of the owners of the machines who, if we were to grant prejudice, would be more likely to be prejudiced in favour of the machines they paid big bucks for instead of the Lencos or Garrards or others they are reporting. There is, in fact, no better evidence. These types dismiss all evidence contary to their expectations as "anecdotal" (but after what number of reports does it cease to be anectdotal?), and all similar reports which support their expectations as unquestionable. If they refuse to try Giant Direct Coupled plinths, I am here to send them out for more testimony, and I will do so, in the spirit of strict observance of scientific verification. For instance the "theory" that all crows are black only holds until a true white crw is found. A sigle white crow is found, an is termed an "anomaly". This is how science works: using a workable and useful "theory" (as MOST crows are black) until something that better describes the reality comes along. As the number of white crows increases (i.e. Lenco/Idlers), so the need for a new theory/paradigm increases.

The Lenco/Idlers are NOT only about audiophile strengths (though in terms of detail-retrieval, dynamics and frequency extension they are unequalled and astounding), but primarily about bringing home the musial message intended by the musical artists, about musical POWER, and those who refuse to enter into the Great Experiment are truly cutting off their noses to spite their faces. These old machines are relatively cheap, and with ENORMOUS musical payback. They are NOT a threat, but istead a Gift. Take it and accept it as one.

So, on that note, I have one week left to unwind from what has been THE most stressful experience of my lfe. Though I thank Bob deeply for his support, enthusiasm and the end result, (which will continue to happen, as there are some truly BIG possibilities for that Review Lenco which will be reported on as time progresses and should the Audio Gods smile on this new venture), the next fellow to suggest I go through "official channels" (i.e. review in a mainline magazine) will be shot immediately. My karma is "Rebel", not "Conformist/System", and my luck only extends in that direction. I look forward to the day when I can, my objectives met, oblivious to discussions and forums, simply tinker away in my peaceful workshop in the country, eating lunch in the lovely Jennifer's restaurant, putting firewood in the woodstove early on a frosty winter morning, and consider my next experiment. To all those idler-tinkerers out there, I wish you the same pleasure I have in restoring/excavating/realizing these superb old machines!! Enjoy all, I'm going off-line again until I am resettled again in my workshop!!

Always have to bring it back to the same old muck, issues of "credit," the same stuff which has poisoned what should have been an entirely pleasurable - if sometimes stormy (on issues of engineering, measurements, results/experiments, etc.) - venture. Customs on imported things is an entirely different issue from crossing borders with a passport: I have never, until the Home Despot thing started, dealt with exporting and importing, beyond using the post office (and yes, even here things were sometimes delayed by months). If you use your head instead of your venom-sacks, you might see that many are in the export-import business for decades without ever leaving their home town (including Customs officials who never see more than stamps and places of origin), while travellers like me do not deal with Customs ever, beyond waiting for a shipped package and paying duties. The HUGE summer back-up overextended my own resources and time as well as the magazine's schedule, end of story. BTW, I never invented anything either, nor claimed to (which you would know if you weren't simply another purveyor of ugly hearsay with no interest in examining the public record and discovering the truth), just recognized and understood certain things, tinkered with and in some cases improved what had already been tried, and did what I could to promote it: i.e. start the "Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot" thread, do my bit to encourage people to participate by example and logical argument, and participate in various vinyl forums. It's the thread's success - NOT failures - which attracted the flies, or in this more particular case "gadflies", an apter description I cannot find. Now can we PLEASE get back to the issues: drive systems, idler-wheel drives, and Lencos?!?

This thread and the original - along with activites across many audio forums - is the collection of the independent testimony of people - the owners of the 'tables outperformed by the Lenco and other large idlers - and this is more than good enough, in fact, it's a phenomenon involving people from around the world, and which continues. I've personally learned my lesson and will not be seeking official channels again, my luck just doesn't run that way, and this is how I make my decisions (learned by months-long sometimes years-long travels with no plans, I know when a path is not my own). Lencos and other idlers will continue to be compared and auditioned - in greater and greater numbers - around the world, and how these eventually reach the audio press (and they already have in a few articles) is only a spectator sport for me from now on as far as I'm concerned (far too many non-performance related issues for my tastes, which is precisely why audio forums are so popular; better acidental discoveries - as in the positive-feedback TNT vs Garrard article - than planned reviews).

To the rest, getting back to original issues and the fun of discovery, the Lencos and other idlers - mine and others world-wide - will continue to be compared and reported on, on this forum as well as others. As with the crows, the constant addition of what is initially dismissed as/termed "anecdotal evidence" will, by its very weight and numbers, become simply "evidence". So don't stop building, don't stop comparing and experimenting, don't stop trying it out and tracking down those old machines, and best of all, don't stop reporting and sharing! To those who haven't tried, you have no idea of just how much MUSICAL information (as well as ENORMOUS amounts of detail) is waiting in those vinyl grooves waiting to be released, and you truly are missing a grand experience. Good luck all and have FUN, and share with generosity of time AND spirit, in a positive spirit of helpfulness. See ya all when I get back to Canada and have time to recover from all these adventures (for instance, it was HELL to get out of Israel, as both the Jewish New Year's AND Muslim Ramadan started the same day I arrived in Israel). And to be more specific re. the EMT/Rek-o-Kut comparison: the EMT had the same character/sound as the Rek-o-Kut Rondine I heard via the same speakers (I'm NOT saying equalivalent in audiophile terms), and I am truly dying to see how far the Rondine can go when Direct Coupled. Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!

Hello from the Country all, I've been overcoming Culture Shock in reverse, adapting to Western society after months spent in a Middle Eastern lifestyle and mind-set. I confess I do miss the walks along the beaches and in the mountains and medieval fortress cities, the movement and the exotic situations!! But, it's back to work and setting up the workshop after it had been mothballed for months. Out here the internet is snail-slow, but I'm working on this.

I'd like to thank you all for your support in the face of DungBeetle (who is obssessed not with the truth, but instead with mud-slinging and uncoveriung mopre dirt, evidently, being satisfied with nothing else...we'll go back to his old name when he shows evidence of positive as well as negative attitudes, and actual investigation of the situation). Telling that these types have to resort to my ancient pre-professional cabinet-maker plinths (I hired one to train me and help me out in gaining the Wyetech Lenco score for the brilliant PR/evidence this provided) I have let stand under my "system" to encourage novices (as I was then) to join in, be proud regardless (have fun and be creative to substiutute for ultimate quality of finish) and add to the store of evidence; questions of aesthetics being counted as superior to issues of performance, simply put a pissing contest. Even more incredible to me that some find this sort of issue/attack acceptable and join in. Those watching who are interested in the truth and the public record can download the original thread at Lenco Lovers, inspect my own Audiogon "system" (also for photos of my later more aesthetically acceptable work which has been there for close on two years now ;-)), and use their heads to put together the real story by extrapolation and some research.

Moving on to more pleasant matters, I've been thinking about the Lenco vs EMT 930 experience in Cyprus, which settles various issues I was thinking about. To wit, whether the Lenco with European motor running off European voltages and cycles sounds precisely the same as the same Lenco running in NA, a question which has come up in various e-mails. Happy to report that to these ears the Lenco sounded precisely identical in both contexts, which should be the case as the Lenco first blew me away in Europe before being shipped back to Canada/NA a decade later.

Another aspect of the experiment concerns a favourite subject of mine: the issue of subjective vs objective evidence. I have always been on record saying that music is NOT an entirely objective experience, of course, and so we must trust our bodily and emotional reactions in determining the superiority of various engineering solutions to reproducing music (and this includes the old MM vs MC debate ;-)). I.E.: if one 'table makes/forces you up out of your chair while the next makes it entirely an passive intellectual experience, then the one which raises you up is dong something right while the one which leaves you untouched emotionally and biologically is doing something wrong. Furthermore, there are engineering/scientific reasons for this, and in the case of record players this has everything to do with issues of speed stability. The ultimate scientific tool is the human ear, and trumps all theories and measuring instruments and systems in the context of home audio systems.

Since it is impossible to have perfection in any physical manifestation (i.e. there are always imperfections), then the issue becomes one of which types of imperfections in speed stability the human ear is sensitive to. So, for instance, I believe quartz-locking/referencing DDs is a mistake, as the human ear is extremely sensitive to the resulting form of speed INstability (negatively affected), however impressive the test figures are, which are necessarily averaged out in any testing. Idler-wheel drives (and belt-drives), however, are a purely analog/momentum solution to the issue of speed stabilty, and both are more fluid-sounding (less "dry"/analytical) than the quartz-locking DD solution. I'll write more on this later when I have more time to think and write and experiment.

All this leading up to another subjective reaction I had when listening to the EMT 930 vs Lenco: while the EMT was undeniably powerful, fluid, entertaining and rivetting, the Lenco did that familiar trick, raising the hairs in my arms and causing me to shiver, something the EMT failed to do. The Lenco - Direct Coupled to a high non-resonsant mass (which the EMT cannot be to the same extent) and Glass-Reinforced to address the resonant top-plate - provides not only better resolution of complex material than the 9,000 euro EMT, more detail, more high-frequency extension and greater focus - it provides a deeper musical experience, and I submit the Prime Directive in the reproduction of music in the home is depth of musical experience; detail and such-like being more in the nature of icing on the cake. This applies as well to the MM vs MC debate, which was my angle all along, not really matters of detail/information-retrieval, though indeed certain MMs - Deccas, some Grados, upper Pickerings and vintage Ortofons - do indeed extract an astonishing amount of information when sympathetically set-up. I'm happy to report however that some MCs do indeed provide an intense PRaT-filled musical experience (usually the preserve of good MMs), such as the Ortofon SPUs, the Ortofon Jubilee, and the Denon DL-103s (in its various guises). In terms of musical intensity, only the Denon matches a good MM (and moving irons) so far, while adding that extra focus/clarity MCs are so good at.

Anyway, this is me getting trying to get back on track after my months-long interruption, I'm setting up a new system and experiment with different components, thanks again for all your support and kind words, keep the Idler Ball rolling!! I'll be back with more as I once again get exposed to the sound of idler-wheel drives and various other 'tables, including the Sony 2250 DD. Over to you all and your respective reports and experiences now ;-), I'll be a while settling in and cogitating and experimenting. WHAT fun!!

Hello again fellow idler-wheelers: I'm here to report the latest bout of Crush the Belt-Drive. Once again, a VPI TNT, earlier edition (MKII I believe) was Crushed by a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco. The way it happened is more interesting than the fact that it happened, it being such a common occurrence and all ;-). As an aside, it doesn't occur to some that not only am I not exaggerating when I use the word "Crush" - a word which I am told some who have compared the rim-drive Teres 'tables to their own belt-drives have used - but that I am quite simply right about the inherent superiority of the idler-wheel drive system to the belt-drive system. This is not hypoerbole, not a stunt to attract attention. Of course, the unabashed use of "big" words DOES work as a PR tactic, but in this case entirely justified, as years of growing conversions attests. As I contantly write: how is it possible to exaggerate something which has not yet met even close to its match (the whole issue in the use of the word "Crush")?!? Also interestingly, Teres use the words "Direct Coupled", complete with caps, on their own website to describe their own version of the rim-drive.

Anyway, this fellow belongs to a jazz group who move meetings from sound-room to sound-room, each taking turns hosting, and all having quite serious systems. That evening it was held at John's place, who has posted previously on this and the old threads, who had a Giant Direct Coupled Garrard 301 (grease-bearing) set up with a Morch UP-4 (heavy wand) and Decca Super Gold, the best tonearm I have yet heard, incidentally, with the Decca. The fellow was smitten, and saw my Bauhaus Lenco sitting there on the floor. Being told it too was an idler-wheel drive, he did not hesitate and offered to buy it on the spot. This in a system which is not his, reminds me of the time more than a decade ago when I instantly heard the Greatness of the Idler when I had accidentally (unplanned) modded a humble Garrard SP-25. It shows this sort of out-of-context epiphany can happen to more than just one person. I arranged to loan it to him from Greece while I was traveling so he could test it out in his system, and he sent me the following words: "I finally got the Bauhaus over here and set it up with John's Rega arm and my cartridge. The VTA probably is not right but who cares. All I can say is: STUNNING! Truly, it is better than I could have imagined." As context, the VPI was set up with a Graham 2.2 ceramic tonearm, so in this way the VPI TNT had the advantage. In the end I had to build him an entirely new one to accommodate the different geometry of his Graham tonearm, and I'm keeping the Bauhaus for my own RS-A1, STILL one of the most sonically superb tonearms ever built, and an incredible sonic bargain.

I forgot in my list of projects to mention Reinderspeter's top-plates, something which is definitely on the agenda. In fact, I bought two, one being for two-tonearms and one for the Lenco-Noll project (it being slated to be married to a Maplenoll tonearm).

On the home audio front I continue to learn lessons and to plumb the depths of vintage audio: I am back to my Sony TAE-5450 preamp, which handily outperformed a Classé DR-5 preamplifier, which shows just how good the old Sonys really are (from back in the days when Sony was targeting McIntosh). Various of my amps were taken out by a defective ARC SP-8 (eventually repaired, but too late for my amps), so I was forced to resort to an untested Sony TA-3140F, which I originally ran with my new Klipsch Heresy MKIs. This was too bright, and out came my ESS AMT-4s, which provided not only the best balance, but also the most magic in this set-up. In fact, I'm pretty well back to the set-up I originally had when I started the original thread!! And it's STILL magical. For those who have forgotten, these vintage Sony electronics - especially from 1966 (TA-3130F, TA-3140F etc.) to 1976 (V-fets, TAE-5450, TAE-8450, etc.) are superb vintage electronics which see off many serious current pieces, especially in terms of overall dynamics, richness and that elusive PRaT; and the ESS speakers use the Oskar Heil Air-Motion Transformers, and as mid-to-high frequencies transducers have never been matched, let alone beaten (high-efficiency allied to beautiful detail and astounding dynamics). To my ear, and from extrapolating from readings, the AMT4s - the world's largest mini-monitors ;-) - are one of the most successful marriages of woofer to ultra-fast AMT transducers.

Anyway, have fun all, there are magical marriages to be found at all levels and all times, and for those on a tight budget vintage audio - ESPECIALLY the Lencos - is STILL the best way to go, with a little luck ;-)!