Best multi-purpose subwoofer
Thank you very much Tim. I find your posts quite educational, as I think you have more real-world experience than I do, and you have paid very close attention to your experiences. And you write very well! I think a good distributed multisub setup is pretty effective at largely removing the room’s signature in the bass region, which is normally superimposed atop all of our recordings. We don’t realize what has been happening until it’s gone. Duke |
Thank you Tim and Duke, and everyone else who has go graciously taken the time out to write and educate. There is a lot to this subject just like any other piece of equipment in the audio chain, and to me that is where the most fun is being an audiophile. In regards to subwoofers there is no debate that multiple subs are better, but to choose one that matches with your room acoustics, and your R/L speakers is equally important. I believe for HT it makes the task a little easy, but for dedicated 2 channel critical listening it gets tough. How well does the subwoofer pair with your R/L speakers cross overs will depend on how well and smoothly it rolls off, bringing the mids and low to life. For my Von Schweikerts VR4 that hit 20Hz comfortably and smoothly, it’s really difficult to pair a good subwoofer. The only way is to audition - but it’s really a hassle to ship the product back every time. Again this is a journey and definitely I am just now in the beginning stages (currently own a NHT SW1 8 inch sub powered by a SA1 mono amplifier). I have owned the sub since 1998 and it’s time to upgrade - mostly for 2 channel listening. |
Duke Lejeun: " Thank you very much Tim. I find your posts quite educational, as I think you have more real-world experience than I do, and you have paid very close attention to your experiences. And you write very well! " Hi Duke, Thanks for the kind words. I've done quite a bit of research on low bass room acoustics, in-room behavior of the longer bass sound waves and sub woofers in general. But I don't consider myself an expert, just an enthusiast who has learned enough to be dangerous. My main motivation was trying to supplement the less than stellar bass produced from my main speakers, a pair of Magnepan 2.7QR 6 x 2 ft. panels that bottom out at 37Hz. These speakers have excellent mid-range and treble response but I knew my system needed better low bass response. I also knew that integrating subs with electrostatic and planar speakers seamlessly was considered difficult by many. I began my journey searching for good bass response by using a single large M&K passive sub with a 12" driver powered by a separate class AB 150 watt amp.and later added a 2nd 10" self-powered sub. I'd describe the bass quality of both of these initial tests as better suited for HT than music. It was relatively easy to position the sub and subs so that the bass sounded best at my listening position. After adding the 2nd sub, I perceived the bass as more detailed and smoother but it continued to seem disconnected and not well integrated with my main speakers on music. Since buying and properly installing the AK Debra bass system, I now consider my journey searching for good bass response completed. I'm not going to describe again how well the distributed bass array concept, whether the AK Swarm, AK Debra or a custom setup, actually works but instead just state I now consider my system's bass response for both music and HT as state of the art. I believe this concept will work equally well in any room, with any speakers and that any skeptic would be convinced once they auditioned a properly setup system. My sole intention is just to share the word about an exceptional solution. Tim |
Hi ghulamr, You already have a very good system with high quality speakers that can reproduce very deep bass well. Can you tell me exactly what qualities you'd like to improve on the bass of your system? I just read a very good review on your Von Shwiekert VR4 MKII speakers on Dagogo.com. In the review, he mentions bi-amping them using a pair of class D 200 watt Channel Island D-200 mono blocks on the bass modules with very good results. The D-200 monos are no longer made but there are many very good high powered class D amps that could be used instead. Class D amps are often used to drive subs because they're small, powerful,have low very low levels of distortion, have very high damping factors and are relatively less expensive. Would you prefer to try this out before sub woofers? Here's a link to the Dagogo review: www.dagogo.com/channel-island-audio-plc-1-d-200-class-d-monoblock-amplifiers-and-xdc-2-ac-enhancing-... If not, I think you have 2 options for setting up a distributed bass array system in your room: Opt#1- Custom DBA: Use your existing pair of VR4 bass modules as sub#1 and sub#2 of the 4 subs required. This option has 2 variations since you would need to buy either A. 2 passive subs of your choice as sub#3 and #4 and the Dayton SA-1000 class AB 1KW amp used by the Swarm ($419 at Parts Express) or a class D 4 ch amp to drive all 4. Or, B. 2 amplified subs of your choice as sub#3 and #4 and either keep your current setup of not bi-amping your VR4s or biamp them if you'd like. Opt#2- AK Swarm or Debra DBA: Keep your existing system as is and just buy and add the Swarm or Debra complete system with 4 subs and the class AB amp to drive them. No matter which option you choose, I can help you with the proper setup procedure and any additional subs or amps you'd need. Opt#2, since it would actually consist of 6 subs in your room- the 4 Swarm subs plus the 2 VR4 bass modules) would likely provide the best quality bass and most bass (but controllable with the overall system volume control on the Swarm amp). Please let me know your thoughts on this and removing the AV7005 from your system. Tim |
