To answer the thread question... Nelson Pass is right (about Nelson Pass)
Pass: Oh, I want perfection, all right, but I'm secure in the knowledge that I won't achieve it. Some designers give up looking for perfection. Its extremely difficult even with state of the art devices. This is why there is a mindset that you just have to take the pros and cons of various components and make the best combination that gives you the "sound" you're looking for.That seems to be the norm. |
I could tell you what it sounds like. It sounds like no amplifier is in use.
As far as performance - It's more like a 3D sound projector.
The only thing you hear is the original venue fully "displayed" as an acoustic image. Turning the volume up and down acts as a zoom control that changes the distance or your proximity to the performance. |
kosst_amojan If you read me post again - word for word you will notice that I don't use the term "should" anywhere in the post.
...that an amp should behave like a straight wire with gain...
or The problem with his interpretation of what a volume knob should do...
These statements imply that I am theorizing or expressing an opinion of what "should" happen. That is not the case. In order for me to relate an observation however implies that such a system has to exist. That is the case. ...a flute played softly doesn't sound as if it's further away.
It sounds like where it's at regardless of how loud or quietly it's played.
This is true but if you are sitting in the 10th row instead of the first row - it does sound further away. Also in the mix is the distance from the flute to the microphone. That is the difference between moving yourself physically at the venue and adjusting the volume in your listening room. Ideally you want the playback volume to match the acoustic volume expressed by the actual instrument(s). Even with no distortion - higher or lower than "normal" volumes will signal the brain that it is listening to a reproduction. If the volume is correct - the brain can accept that it is live
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Ironically the process has been perfected and the final version is coming out as X-12. There will be no X-13.It now has TOTAL control of the data recovered from the original recording. The Auto-Focus system has been perfected and now the holographic "display" is a full clone with no distortion and no noise. It can project the same acoustic layout including the exact spacing between objects as recorded. (at the proper volume of course) and the brain does in fact perceive it as live.
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Kosst
The point of this thread was to discuss Nelson’s statement that amps are a solved problem, that there is no technically perfect amp, and that they are, for all intents and purposes, art.
I understand that it is his viewpoint or opinion but it is not factual. His mission or target or goal (according to the article) is to make an amp with a particular "sound" or signature. Pass:
There are few things I enjoy so much as to contemplate the specific (and complex) characteristics of the many transistors (or tubes) and how they might fit into an amplifier to deliver a sound which has a particular signature. Rather than go through all the devices as if they were shades of paint on a mixing palette - I prefer to make an amp with "no sound". By default in order to have a "sound" the amplifier modifies the pure input signal to include a form of distortion or corruption based on the devices used. It is not necessarily bad thing but I don't want to hear the parts - the only thing I want to hear is the music. As far as bold statements - I am trying to be polite. I have a policy of not criticizing or speaking ill of other designers. Mr. Pass by his own words is not seeking the perfect amp. I am. I could give you a few bold statements of fact but it generally won't sit well with some individuals that post or read this thread. It would be good news for some and bad news for others. |
willemj
I think the engineering science to design and produce a straight wire with gain reached sonic perfection in the 1980's.
I would agree with this except I would say it reached its sonic "limits" in the 1980's. It never reached perfection. The need to be energy efficient is a noble cause as well however I think that removing distortion found its limit when it was clear that lower THD measurements, while impressive to those buying by specs only, proved to be seemingly unrelated to the actual sound of a system. Tube gear (with admittedly higher THD) still dominated the high end market. Even today the tube gear still enjoys a comfortable percentage of the high end market. Many SS designers would be happy if they can get their gear to sound like tubes. |
kosst
Where exactly are you getting perfect signals?
One of the biggest surprises I've run into is how much information is actually captured in the recordings. The resolution of the image embedded in the source is vastly superior to what was assumed as a limitation. The real problem seems to be with the resolution of the playback system. If you recall I was offering to send you a preamp - not an amp.The entire playback chain is the amplifying process. The core process I have developed is zero distortion. This circuitry is an analog "block" that you use to make a phono stage, a DAC (output stage), a line stage and the voltage gain stage in the power amp. The output section passes the phase coherent signal to the loudspeakers. There will be limitations when driving speakers that do not adhere to the same coherency do to its design. Obviously you must have at least decent speakers.
Perfect mediums? Which perfect medium exactly?
If you are asking about the medium of air - there is no distortion presented to the sound waves traveling through air. The two times you use air as a conduit starting at the original venue is the air space in studio or hall and the air space in your listening room. These two segments have no distortion. The electronics between those segments has to approach the same level of purity found in air. For example just by switching the preamp in an existing system of otherwise decent electronics can give you many more magnitudes of resolution and information compared to a conventional preamp. The same holds true for the phono stage. Without replacing your power amp. I'm sorry for the confusion but when I talk about amplification I am not always referring to a power amp.There are enough problems before you get to the power amp that already restricts what you can expect to be passed on to the speakers.
what perfect gain devices are you using in your perfect circuits?
Here you are talking about two different things. It is possible to have a perfect circuit without perfect gain devices as long as the result of a unique configuration produces the perfect output. I also manufacture my own devices used in critical areas of the circuit because they don't make a device capable of behaving the way that is required to cause the overall circuit to have a linear output. My target was to detect velocity in the source signal and force the output to be synchronized to the recovered velocity which is clearly embedded in the recording. This gives you a way to match the playback speed with the recorded speed. If you don't do this you end up with an unstable or smeared image. This "out of focus" nature of such an image hides the extremely fine details missing in playback. The more stability - the more resolution. This can be seen by simply reducing mechanical vibrations in the system as well as better overall grounding which also helps to stabilize the image.
What is perfect gain?
Perfect gain is gain that does not change under load. Again I'm not talking specifically about a power amp. The desired holographic image will collapse do to any non linear segment in the entire chain. Perfect gain in the analog world is a fixed numeric value that is used to amplify the input signal at any point in the 360 deg range. If you take a line stage that has 6db of gain or an amplification factor of 2.0 then of course to be linear it would need to stay at 2.0 during the entire dynamic range. If as the signal approaches the first positive peak and it falls short by a tiny amount (like the amplification factor at that moment was 1.998) then this is a sign that the amplifier has literally slowed down and the signal has a degree of compression that makes the shape of the current signal (fragment) look like a lower frequency. The same holds true for any segment in the 360 degree signal that somehow ended up with a gain of 2.002 - in this case the speed of the amp has gone up. The expected value of the peak has been passed and is seen as an acceleration in velocity. This non linear nature is what causes the playback speed to vary. Harmonic distortion is the direct result of accelerating the fundamental frequency to a higher part of the spectrum. By detecting the velocity rather than trying to make a crude "comparison" as in classic feedback attempts - you simply hold the velocity constant. Constant velocity is constant gain. Constant gain is linear. Under these circumstances, there is no way for it to cause the speed to vary and as a result it does not have the ability to generate harmonic distortion. Holding the velocity constant is done as a phase correction. The greater the ability to detect velocity gives you better ability to hold it constant. This type of correction is done along the horizontal or time domain axis - not in the vertical axis the way classic feedback works. It also does it in real time preventing any form of distortion from appearing at the output of the circuit. This is what makes this method of amplifying distortion-less. Detecting velocity is extremely difficult and requires sensitivity of astronomical proportion. This is what took me years to figure out. This high gain detector drives the automatic focus system Advances in the velocity detector over the years has given rise to resolution as seen by the version nomenclature like the X-8, X-9, and so on. It currently stands at X-12 and is the final version because at this level of correction - the detector now gives 100% control to the auto-focus system. No additional correction is necessary. The detector can discern changes in velocity as small as a few micro-degrees. As a result the output of the circuit can be totally phase locked to the fundamental (input) signal. As long as the lock holds - it produces a clone of the input signal. The lock is good down to (and below) the noise floor. When no signal is present the auto-focus can maintain a lock on the actual Johnson or shot noise seen at the noise floor. Any music signal rising up from the noise floor is already totally locked. This means that the auto-focus can accurately project tiny sound objects in the background at tremendous depths while providing massive detail for anything in the sound stage at any distance. It does this with 100% transparency starting from a jet black background. Percussion instruments are startling and because the brain is use to listening to live music coming through air - it readily accepts sound waves with similar stability as live. The average person listening to a full system that works this way for the first time can't make it passed the first 10 seconds without looking around and saying "what the hell is this?" they cannot wrap their head around what is taking place because it seems both impossible and live. Although a conventional system can sound spectacular - after listening to a system that does not distort - and returning back to the conventional system - it now sounds distorted. Here is a simple test for distortion: Can you tell if your listening to tubes or solid state? Do you recognize a 12ax7 or a mosfet? Does it have a "signature" sound? If you can recognize any device used anywhere in the system - its distorted. It is leaving a finger print of that device on the music signal. You cannot hear H-CAT. It has no sound. By re-enacting the disturbance pattern of the original air space in your own listening room you have cloned the sound event. The result is pure music with instruments suspended in mid-air as a ghost like image. I rest my case. Roger |
stfoth,
Early on in the project (years) you can see the THD drop to low levels by making a specific part of the circuit take over the handling of the input signal.
Once the distortion hits the noise floor - two possibilities exist. If the noise is seen on a spectrum analyzer is -100db then the distortion is either -100 as well (or less). Listening tests at that point reveal a caliber of resolution that can be associated with those numbers. After that point any further improvements (hearing more resolution/less distortion) is happening below -100db. If you monitor it over time you can see the random nature of the noise will occasionally drop below -100 for a brief time. When this happens it exposes the harmonic measurement which if it was -100 then even in the absence of noise it would still read -100.
Instead it measures -130db. This quick peak indicates that the distortion is still being driven to deeper levels and you can verify by what you hear that you are going in the right direction. After that point the THD analyzer is of no use. Now we take over with the math to determine how far down it wold be. Because of the phase lock kicking in and stopping it from being able to generate harmonics - you now can use the degree of resolution as a gauge going forward. As I continue to raise the sensitivity of the detector by X amount - it translates directly into an increase in resolution. It is obvious when resolution goes up - other instruments that you never heard before are now "visible". Again, continuing to raise the detector output gives you the numbers needed to calculate the degree of lock presented to the fundamental. At this point it no longer can distort at least as seen by harmonic output. Now we are down to how much bandwidth are we limiting the fundamental to vary. As the detector continued to improve I can calculate how much phase shift is now allowable as far as deviation from the fundamental frequency. Since I know that the detector sensitivity can be triggered by as little as a few micro-degrees, It ensures that the smaller the allowable phase shift - the tighter the focus. Remember the detector drives the auto-focus.
The correction uses phase shift countermeasures that are extremely tiny and guarantees the fundamental is now the only thing that can exit the stage. The red shift / blue shift torque is held at a balanced point by a hair trigger which is the velocity detector. All of the correction as I mentioned is done on the horizontal axis. (time domain line). To do this the detector has to be rotated by 90 degrees so that it is literally seen by the music signal as a path that it must travel through to reach the output. (unlike monitoring the voltage or amplitude levels as in the vertical axis).
Trying to use negative feedback driven by amplitude measurements is no way to accurately correct anything. As you may know by the time you get this "sample" of output to use as a countermeasure its too late. That "piece" of music already left the circuit as distortion.
By using 90 degree phase detection capable of seeing a micro-degree of phase shift you have plenty of time to fix the problem in real time. Once this process takes over and we know the sensitivity of the detector we know the max deviation from the true fundamental. At this point it is right in the ballpark of the same phase shift you would expect sound to experience traveling through air. (virtually zero).
At this level of phase purity we have emulated the linear property of air.
The sound of the unit now seems more like a hole in the wall or portal through which sound waves are allowed to pass through unaltered.
The hardware is cloaked.
Hope this helps.
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As you can probably tell this is not a conventional means of amplifying.
A totally different approach was needed to remove distortion. |
kosst,
I seriously doubt anybody honestly wants a stack of truly zero distortion electronics
If you had a preference when it comes to watching TV would you reject the newer 4K resolution TV (as opposed to standard / HD) because it is too revealing? If your [home theater] had several boxes that once you replace them with higher quality gear - would you not appreciate a picture that was much clearer and allowing you to enjoy movies etc. with no [visual] distortion? With most gear you are stuck with some distortion. People are treating this distortion like it was cholesterol (having good and bad versions). In my mind there are no "good" harmonics. To me they don't belong there and you certainly don't get that mixture at the live concert hall. The only good harmonics if you will are the rich natural occurring harmonics the come out of the musical instruments as part of their sound. Otherwise just get yourself an Aphex Aural Exciter and be done with it. I think that would fall into the category of "art". Believe me when you hear what music sounds like with no distortion - you are forever hooked. The only thing harder than trying to develop this technology in the first place is the ability of a listener to describe it to someone who has not heard it. |
teo_audio
As for zero distortion electronics, not possible
Too late. Been there - done that. One of the biggest problems that exists in communication is mixing or confusing facts with opinions. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion - not to their own facts. You speak as if you are certain of this.
Its not possible (in your opinion) because......why?
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kosst
What you seem to describe is just a very complicated feedback and filtering technique.
I just realized there might be some confusion based on your statement. I want to make it clear when I say that I wanted to remove distortion - I don't mean that I have found a way to literally remove it or "filter out" distortion. The idea of any filter is to catch / remove unwanted things that already exists. The proper statement should be that I have found a way to prevent distortion from occurring in the first place. I have removed the mechanism needed to create harmonic distortion. The complicated part is true. |
@atmasphere I ask simply because in the past you've not indicated that you have any means of quantifying this timing thing you talk about. Just so you know, that's a bit of Red Flag.
Thanks, I appreciate your letting me know what I'm doing wrong. I don't want anyone to think that there is actual snake oil under the hood. I'm really sorry that there is so much difficulty trying to explain this concept. Even the owners of H-CAT still can't describe what they hear to someone who hasn't heard it. Mostly because all the good adjectives used to describe the sound of a system have been wasted on "good" sounding gear. When the real deal comes along - people are left speechless.They literally cannot find words to describe it. |
kosst,
If I watched TV I'd want one that replicated looking through a window, not a portal to a different reality where everything pops and moves in hyper-smooth action. I prefer my stereo to be as realistic.
Ironically there is one term that comes close to describing the experience - realistic (or real).
Reality doesn’t look anything like a modern Samsung TV
This statement tells me which TV NOT to buy. |
trelja,
Thanks for offering your time to check this out. The only way to understand what I have been trying to share is by actual listening.
Please go to my website and use the contact form or email me at info@h-cat.com so I can set this up.
I am willing to have you come by and hear the final version.
Roger |
kosst, I don't understand the obsession with the scope and analyzer - didn't we learn that the THD measurements did not correlate with how it sounds?
You've cited no measurements.
There is nothing to measure. Take the line stage for example. You see a test tone at 1khz sitting at 0db out and if you look across the spectrum headed north of 1 khz you see flat constant noise around -110db. If you specifically monitor the 2khz frequency you see that it is also just the noise floor. There are no other "bumps" showing up in the spectrum. Total absence of harmonic distortion. This was my initial proof that I could prevent a circuit from generating harmonics by using a phase based countermeasure circuit directly on the music signal. |
kosst,
I want to see truly perfect measurements under the most grueling load so that when I listen to it I know that what I'm hearing is the sound of perfection
You keep talking about power amps - I'm not. The core building block that is the "cloning amp" is found in phono stages, line stages, power amps (as the voltage gain) and dacs (as the analog output stage) the power amp will not be "perfect" when driving strange loads. It will successfully drive 90% of speakers. You may have some interaction that is introduced by the amp/speaker coupling/matching. I have been talking about the amplifier process which is the entire chain of components - not just an amp. This is why I offered to have you listen to the line stage. Besides I'm sure there are perfectly bad sounding power amps that can produce a KW into 2 ohms or have the perfect square wave at the output - so what? On the one hand you are saying the specs don't mean anything as far as the sound of the amp (tube amps measure poor but sound great) Solid state amps can measure incredibly good but can drive you out of the room when you listen. In other words perfect specs do not mean a perfect amp. If you examine the core H-CAT amplifier [stage] it has perfect specs and zero distortion. The output stage needed by the power amp to drive the speakers will do its best to maintain the purity that drives it. The power amp has no overall feedback loop (from output to input). The core process uses tiny amounts of phase correction that can be considered "feedback" because it is a countermeasure but it differs so much from the classic negative feedback because of where it is in the circuit and how it is implemented. |
kosst
With all due respect, telling people they just need to listen to understand the technical claims is the same thing as you saying "My word is the only proof you need to believe my claims"
That's not what I said
The only way to understand what I have been trying to share is by actual listening.
That's what I said. You won't gain any technical insight by listening. But you will experience the acoustical result of the process. It is the experience that I'm trying to share. teo_audio, Can you enlighten me on the time/space 3d reality issue ? Thanks |
kosst,
Don't you think it would have been wise to wait until the gentlemen from PA was here to verify if this is in fact for real or a hoax? |
kosst,
I told you that this would be good news for some and bad news for others. You are making my point. |
Sorry my bad. So I guess that the raw circuit is fine by itself. Its just that if you want to make the sound even richer and fuller than the original recording - then you add the extra distortion.
This also gives you the added bonus of listening to the performance on a larger or wider sound stage than the one they actually used for the recording?
Is it me? |
kosst
Practically everybody who builds one applies some positive phase second order distortion through the NFB loop balance to warm the sound up and open up the stage.
There is your red flag. |
You do realize I know the circuit you are listening to. Really good designers understand that carefully chose distortion is much better than no distortion. Not true. If that's what they think then they are not a really good designer. Something else is happening and they are blaming it on the zero distortion [settings]. They are using distortion as a partial countermeasure to the real issues. I happen to know exactly what the problem is with that circuit but I don't get involved with other designers stuff. When I said I don't think the designers are thinking outside the box - I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately they just don't know where to look to resolve the issues in their circuits. That's why things seem to have slowed to a crawl. They have run out of things to try. A circuit can actually measure zero distortion and still not be zero distortion.Typically a sign wave test does nothing but tell how good a low frequency servo it is. Music is an entirely different matter.
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kosst, He doesn't know what a 100% distortion-free amp sounds like. He's never heard one. I thought that was the whole purpose of his visit. Unless he has calibrated microphones for ears, oscilloscopes for eyes, and a distortion analyzer for a brain, he cannot substantiate your claims.
My gear is built for humans to enjoy. No cyborgs.
Our ears,eyes and brain are far better than man made test equipment when it comes to making observations. I'm surprised that someone so deeply embedded into specs like yourself would swallow some pride and go for the added distortion needed to make it tolerable. What's up with that? I never had a customer call me and ask if I could give them a knob on the front panel so they could add a little distortion.
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kosst
Everybody knows you can manipulate a signal to sound like all kinds of things
Well that is certainly true especially if you have a way of adding your own flavor of distortion. ...even those things you claim your gear does.
Here is where there is a problem. It is the absolute absence of manipulation that makes it distortion-free. You know like air. You must be disappointed when you go to a live concert. Do you bring your own bag of distortion with you? Or wait for the CD version to come out and listen to it at home where the "proper" amount of distortion can be added. I can't wrap my head around the idea that we need distortion in our playback systems. Your amplifier circuit by itself (without adding distortion) apparently is making enough mistakes (errors) to warrant having to do something to hide or cover up whats happening.
...applies some positive phase second order distortion through the NFB loop balance to warm the sound up and open up the stage.
Translation: without adding second order - the raw circuit is "cool " sounding and has a narrow or restricted sound stage. Yes? |
kosst,
I'm not accusing you of being the measurements freak. I'm sorry if you got that impression. I'm trying to show the difference between an amp that measures zero compared to an amp that IS zero.One sounds awful and one sounds incredible. Can you tell me how to measure zero distortion with a music signal as the source?
If you measure the voltage level (of the source) like an orchestra playing normally and you get X amount. (lets say 1/2 volt nominal) Then without changing a beat - add the guy with the triangle at the back of the hall when he adds a single note to the mix. Besides not being able to identify it on a scope - how much additional voltage appears now that the triangle is playing. How big is just the triangle voltage? Millivolts? microvolts? nanovolts? picovolts? This is the range of signals I work with and have mastered control over.
If the entire orchestra was quiet and just left the triangle - it would be seen on a scope as closer to the noise floor. In order to successfully project that object back to the rear of the hall and keep it in focus - you need circuitry with enough sensitivity and resolution to handle the task of rendering that object at that distance. The greater the depth or distance of an object - the harder it is to place it back into the image unscathed.
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You can't show me a circuit that does what you claim. You can't because it doesn't exist. If it existed you'd have patented it.
Patience grasshopper - and all will be revealed. |
@stevecham Zero "velocity distortion" is an oxymoron. Just as there is no net movement of air molecules in the propogation of soundwaves, so too there is no net movement of electrons in the propogation of electrical signals in audio circuits. Very good - when you get a chance please have a look at my white paper where I describe among other things how the air closest to the violin is being disturbed by the sound vibrations coming from the violin (strings). Adjacent air molecules are passing the entire sound of the violin as a wave. What we hear with our ears is the influence of this disturbance flowing as a wave through air. The speed or velocity at which the wave travels is around 750 mph. The original air molecules have not left the stage they are still at the violin. Zero "velocity distortion" is an oxymoron The velocity of the air medium is zero. In order to successfully amplify a music signal that is "traversing" as a flowing wave, you must maintain a constant velocity (neither faster or slower than 750 mph). Changes in the playback speed of the music signal generates harmonics. Air never alters the speed of the traversing sound waves - neither should the amplifier. If you can stabilize the velocity of the amplifier you have simulated that property of air. This is readily recognized by the brain.
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kosst, Apparently you've been at this gig for years judging by the guy who offered to take a listen to your gear who wasn't overly impressed the last time he heard it. Its true - of course that was ten years ago. A lot of progress including a few breakthroughs have occurred since then. Do you know how many large corporations started in the garage of the founder? Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Hewlett Packard - they all had to start somewhere. Being on the same path - I feel like I'm in good company. The trick is that you have to make progress otherwise technology WILL slow to a crawl.
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kosst
Nothing you've said reflects understanding
That's because nothing I've said you understand. The field is 3D sound reproduction. |
Roger is claiming circuits alter play speed AND he claims that's the source of distortion. That's pure BS.
This is exactly what I'm claiming. |
kosst,
Harmonic distortion is caused by nonlinearity in the gain devices. Period.
I agree 100% - we know it is caused by nonlinearity I'm not disputing that. I am saying that I know the means by which harmonic distortion is actually generated by the nonlinearity. At any point along the [sign wave] that the gain is increased or decreased you have essentially speeded up or slowed down that segment of the sign wave which makes it appear as a higher or lower frequency. This is the only way that 2khz energy can exit a circuit fed by 1khz. What I'm saying is the actual means for producing the harmonics is directly caused by the damaging effect the a nonlinear event has on a pure 1khz tone. We are on the same page but I can go further and describe the chain of events that ends up with the harmonics. I have studied a kind of slow motion observation of those events in order to place a trap that is triggered by the very first sign that it has come upon a non linear obstacle You can nip it in the bud if you know how to detect that it is starting to distort. The very first thing to go is the phase of the pure tone - this is the birth of a harmonic. My circuit can spot this at such an early point that it can be stopped before it even has left the fundamental frequency of 1khz. The detector can spot a shift in phase of micro-degrees and apply a phase countermeasure that prevents it from continuing shift in phase and ultimately in frequency (as monitored on the spectrum as 2khz) A non linear amplifier produces harmonics by literally manipulating the phase and frequency of the input signal. Period. If you can stop the manipulation from happening - you have stopped it from distorting. As long as the detector can monitor the phase of the fundamental and apply a countermeasure to prevent it from going any further - it now has no means of distorting. Classic negative feedback is supposed to do the same thing but it can't. It relies on monitoring the instantaneous voltage at the output and compares a reduced version back to the input (typically a differential pair). This method is monitoring the voltage along the vertical axis. Because of this configuration - vital information is lagging do to the fact that damaging events have already occurred by the time you notice a change in voltage. |
kosst,
Can you explain to me how an amplifier can produce energy at 2khz when all it has to work with is the pure 1khz tone applied at the input?
If you don't think it is using a modified version of the input to do this then if you stop the 1khz input - does the circuit still continue to produce 2khz energy? No. In fact there are no harmonics anywhere in the spectrum with no input.
The 2khz harmonic IS energy from the 1khz signal that has been warped and bent by the nonlinear event. It literally changes the shape if the pure tone (which is not pure any more) into a brief segment of what looks like a 2khz tone.
For that tiny moment - that small segment of the input signal has been moved up a FULL OCTAVE.
This can be seen by running a tape machine at twice the playback speed.
Don't tell me this is not happening - I know for a fact that it is. This is what I have been studying for years. By detecting the first sign of distortion (the initial phase shift that starts on its way to becoming a harmonic) and stopping it from going further - you have an amplifier circuit that has no distortion.
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kosst,
The source of distortion in a gain device is related to deviations in it's transconductance. Deviations in transconductance are, at the very least, the byproducts of capacitance, resistance, and inductance within the transistor itself. They're unavoidable characteristics.
The source of distortion is related to ....bla ...bla...bla. You realize that what you are saying is: "The source of distortion is related to the nonlinearity." You are describing what causes the nonlinearity - I am describing how the nonlinearity you have described causes the damage to the signal which as a result produces the harmonic. No matter how the nonlinearity manifests itself - I have a way to deal with it.
You have NOT solved all of those problems.
News flash - As a matter of fact I have. You see - all forms of distortion start off as phase shift or timing issues. You keep doubling down on the same argument and its not going to get you anywhere. You are digging a deeper hole that you are going to have to climb out of at some point when the truth is made known. This is not wishful thinking or a theory - the circuitry already exists that does EXACTLY what I'm describing and it works perfectly. I know this sounds too good to be true but its true. I told you this would make some people happy and others not so happy. |
kosst,
Do you think that after decades of work trying to analyze the tiny events that lead up to the production of harmonics that I'm going to say
"Oh I know - I'll just use negative feedback - why didn't I think of this before?"
Ok here is a fact:
If you see something and react to it and use a countermeasure against it to "fix" it you are applying some form of negative feedback.
True.
The trick is where do you apply it and to fix what problem?
There is no "loop" from output back to the input.
I don't monitor voltage fluctuations seen on the vertical axis.
I use a form of feedback that involves shifting phase by micro-degrees at a particular location in the circuit that will allow this type of correction to be effective in stopping distortion from happening. This type of "feedback" is 1000 times the potency of classic negative feedback which we know does not work.
The Auto-Focus by default could not "automatically" focus anything unless it can detect and react.
Classic NFB can only suppress harmonic distortion to lower levels.
My circuit "correction method" stops distortion all together.
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stfoth ...are all issues directly related to harmonics?
NO - All issues are related to nonlinearity (NL) which caused the harmonics. Harmonic distortion is one by-product of a NL circuit. Imaging suffers even with the slightest amount of NL A holographic image certainly cannot be maintained in such a circuit. |
Anyone on this thread own one?
I noticed they are not cheap.
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stfoth, re: zero-perceived-distortion link... Tenor amplifiers have no global feedback. We contend this to be the first step in great amplifier design. We then map the low natural distortion of our amplifiers. This is done for every tone and overtone - at every frequency simultaneously … at every amplitude. This allows us to understand exactly our amplifier’s dynamic nature of distortion while playing real music and not just the static measurement at a particular frequency and amplitude - the way distortion is measured by the industry today. With this detailed mapping, we shape our amplifier circuit using Tenor’s proprietary HSI technology in a manner that the brain perceives no distortion. What little distortion Tenor amplifiers have is now effortlessly and subconciously ignored by the brain. This is the premise of Zero Perceived Distortion - laying bare the beautiful essence of each original master recording in all of its splendour!
What little distortion Tenor amplifiers have is now effortlessly and subconciously ignored by the brain
stfoth
a different approach on "perfect."
Yes it is different but not correct and apparently not zero distortion. |
kosst,
You see - all forms of distortion start off as phase shift or timing issues."
WRONG. Just because a distortion wave form appears slightly phase shifted from the fundamental does not mean that the phase shift causes it.
I'm amazed every time I mention something you seem to see it from the wrong angle or something. I'm not trying to be difficult but let me clarify what I mean. in particular..
...does not mean that the phase shift causes it.
Just the opposite - the distortion caused the phase shift - not the other way around. When I say I'm tightly monitoring the phase of the fundamental - I am watching for the first sign that something has gone wrong. That is the canary in the coal mine. By stopping the phase shift - you have cut off any means of generating harmonics. |
kosst, I honestly wonder if you're not ripping off somebody else's work and hocking it as your own. Sorry kosst - you will just have to find out on your own what I have accomplish when you read the reviews or see it at a show. Good luck with your personal issues. I hope things work out ok for you.
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kosst
Why would I want to be one of those guys?
They are stuck in conventional world.
I have something far more creative.
I always think outside the box.
In a little while they are going to wish they were me.
Besides those guys and the others you did not name are running just a few years behind me right now.
I'm the happy camper. |
kosst
Glad you built your first hi-fi system!
Yeah that would be 1969 when I built my first tube amp. |
kosst
Your right about the not so common path but -
wrong about H-CAT It is not class D. |
kosst
Sure it is! You can't run a linear power supply or a class A or AB amp in a box with no heatsinks or ventilation. The weight and appearance rule out linear circuits.
Wow you can tell all that just by looking at it? Very impressive. But wrong. Is this "opposite day" or something? |
kosst
Without cooling though, there's absolute certainty what your output stage isn't.
Your absolute certainty is absolutely wrong. First you're criticizing my amp without hearing it and now you're telling me I have no heat sinks with seeing it. I don't think you are going to get away with that one. Its too easy to prove. (They are on the back) It idles at 30 wpc. Are you a remote viewer? |
kosst And in 48 years you haven't achieved any success or praise for your audio expertise, but you're about to teach the true greats in the field some big lessons, eh? As a matter of fact - Yes. This brings us back to the egg on your face moment that's coming down the pike like an 18 wheeler. Please kosst for Gods sake man - you are in a nose dive like you have no idea. You are making it worse on yourself. Think about this for a moment. Just humor me. What if everything I've told you is true and accurate? Including that there are no designers that are even close to creating what I have made. Wouldn't that be something? The good news (for audiophiles) is that it really is here. On that note I would suggest that we call a truce on beating a dead horse because its getting nowhere fast. Lets wait and see what happens next and then you can react.
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kosst Rather than accept the onslaught of valid and well reasoned criticism brought before you, you hunker down even more. Oh you mean like - I don't like you because I think you're a liar. Or There is some debate as to whether you're smart enough to realize you're full of crap. Or I'm pretty sure everybody here has concluded you're a fraud
Or We all see you have no clothes. It sounds like you have quite a crowd there - who are you "debating" with? The voices in your head? You brag you work in values of picovolts, but you can't prove it. I have to admit you might have me on that one. You arrogantly presume you've stumbled onto some new branch of physics or something and have the audacity to invent the language
The results I have gotten are from my endless hours of dedication to a single concept. I did not "stumble" into anything. The final circuit I ended up with was my target from the beginning - not an accident. I have figured out the correct configuration of the right components to produce live music. I was able to do this simply because I knew it was possible. This body of work includes what I have learned about how the ear-brain perceives something as "live" That understanding has helped shape the concept and implementation of an automatic focus system. And now all that work has paid off. The future got here sooner that you thought. Sorry but just like Hillary - you going to have to get over it.
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kosst You present the concept like it's some epic breakthrough to a world that's never experienced such a thing I know that is hard to swallow but yes that pretty much sums it up. On several occasions there have been people who after listening to such a system have had tears of joy. Only live music can touch that nerve.
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kosst - its really been great chatting with you but I need to get back to work. We are not getting anywhere with this argument and I'm certainly not going to change my position since I'm the one with the goods.
The difference is that I have the "before and after" - you only have the "before" and have not heard the "after" and so you cannot comment on it with any authority.
I really do wish you the best. |
