Steakster wrote,
"The Pet Rocks sold pretty well."
Of course the pet rocks sold well. It’s all in the marketing. The original idea for the Pet Rock was actually PT Barnum’s Stone Soup, a concept not unlike my Brilliant Pebbles as fate would have it. Coincidence? But the pet rock’s big attraction was the packaging.
"The genius was in the packaging. Each Pet Rock came in a cardboard carrying case, complete with air holes, tenderly nestled on a bed of excelsior. Mr. Dahl’s droll masterstroke was his accompanying manual on the care, feeding and house training of Pet Rocks. "If when you remove the rock from its box it appears to be excited, place it on some old newspapers,” the manual read. “The rock will know what the paper is for and will require no further instruction. It will remain on the paper until you remove it.”"
Thus was born the Intelligent Rock. A harbinger of Things to Come?
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Dracula wrote,
"Geoff, you’re not even making sense. My $4k in room treatments has done more to improve the sound of my system than any $40k speaker cable or $10k interconnect I’ve auditioned."
Most likely you’re going to the wrong places for auditions. Have you given any consideration to uh, widening your circle of audio friends? I have a nagging suspicion you might be following the wrong sheep. Can I suggest placing an ad in your local newspaper for a HiFi store that can demonstrate expensive cables successfully? Surely there must be someone. Best of luck with that.
cheers,
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Conceits
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jl35
1,057 posts
06-23-2016 8:28am
not to mention the many who do not have to choose...they can do the $4k room treatment, a batch of $10k-40k cables, and $100k+ components...without concern with how much these items cost to produce...
Eggs ackly! Not to mention that room treatments are not intended to replace - nor can they replace - cable upgrades in the first place. I’m pretty sure they call that a Strawman Argument. Cables and room treatments are two independent variables. The enthusiastic and thorough audiophile must actually pay attention to a host of issues, and address them according to his wants and budgetary constraints. |
dracule1 OP
963 posts
06-23-2016 1:58am
Geoffkait: "I never said you did say there’s NO difference between cables. What you keep saying, though, is that there is NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE in sound quality between very expensive cables and inexpensive cables. And you yourself provided evidence to the contrary when you linked the blind test that showed otherwise."
To which dracula replied,
"Sigh. You just don’t get it do you? How many times do I have to repeat myself. CORRELATION, CORRELATION, CORRELATION!!!
You’re a horrible troll."
Oh, I get it alright. You apparently don’t seem to know that going to audio stores is no way to audition cables or anything else for that matter. For one thing they keep changing their equipment so much the system never gets a chance to break in. Hel-loo! You can repeat your correlation mantra as many times as you like. It still makes you seem like a naive troll grasping at straws. Some guy somewhere claiming that some audio product or another is too high priced. Yeah, like that’s not a troll we’ve seen a hundred times.
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mapman
13,405 posts
06-23-2016 1:04pm
"Obviously how much anything is worth is a matter of opinion and opinions will vary."
The only opinion that matters is the person’s who is selling the thing.
"Resale prices over the long run are most likely the only reliable metric to bank on when it comes to determining value."
i see. You’re investing in audio. That’s so funny.
"Another truth would seem to be that those resale values are almost always way less then original retail price especially when it comes to more commodity type products like wires."
again, you seem to be under the impression audio is supposed to be an investment.
"So its fine to pay a lot for nice new wires just don’t expect anyone else is likely to pay you the same amount if you paid full retail."
Nobody pays retail. Not in this market. Strawman alert. Example: a dealer pays what, 50-60% of retail. And sells them for whatever he can get, let's say 80-90% of retail. So, no one is paying retail. Gee, do you think the manufacturer knows that everyone wants a deal.
"I hope I’m wrong but I suspect in many cases here touting new expensive wires or other accessories that the touters did not pay full retail yet those influenced may well end up doing just that."
gee, ya think? ;-)
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dracule1 OP
966 posts
06-23-2016 8:49pm
GeoffkAit: "Nobody pays retail. Not in this market. Strawman alert. Example: a dealer pays what, 50-60% of retail. And sells them for whatever he can get, let's say 80-90% of retail. So, no one is paying retail. Gee, do you think the manufacturer knows that everyone wants a deal."
to which dracula replied,
"No geoff, try more like 10-20% of retail for dealers for expensive wires. Nordost dealers will offer close to 50% off retail and still make a huge profit. Even at 50% off, they're not worth the price to most audiophiles, like those $10k Nordost jumper cables let alone their $50k speaker cables. Reasonable cable manufactures who sell cables in the range up to around $2k have their dealers pay 50% of retail."
Don't know why you have your panties in a twist. In a capitalist system one is free to make as much profit as possible. Besides it's whatever the market will bear. You say they aren't worth the price but price is defined as what a buyer under no pressure to buy will pay to a seller who's under no pressure to sell. At least in capitalist countries. One assumes you must be one of them socialists.
Cheers,
geoff
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dracule1 OP
966 posts
06-23-2016 8:17pm
Geoffkait:"You apparently don’t seem to know that going to audio stores is no way to audition cables or anything else for that matter. For one thing they keep changing their equipment so much the system never gets a chance to break in."
to which Dracula replied,
"Geoff, you're so precious. Again you talk like you know something when you really don't. All cables I audition are in my own setup or in my friends setup that I know well. It's like shooting fish in a barrel."
Something's wrong somewhere. Do you have all thumbs for fingers? How the heck should I know why you don't get good results like most other audiophiles.
Cheerios |
mitch2
1,270 posts
06-26-2016 12:23pm
grm said,
"What is the definition of a genuine Audiophile? I'm new to this hobby and entered it believing its about the music and to a lesser degree the playback hardware and wires. I have spent more on my music collection than on my system. I definitely get more excited about a great recording than on a new piece of wire"
grm, good for you. Don't worry about becoming a "genuine Audiophile." Instead, go listen to and/or buy some more music....you will be happier."
I'm afraid that ship has sailed. He's got Krell and Sonus Faber. Hel-loo!
;-)
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An audiophile is someone who has found out the hard way that going from Redbook CD to 20 bit CD to 24 bit CD and going to higher sampling rates to SACD and even Blu Ray and hi res downloads doesn’t necessarily guarantee you will actually realize an increase in sound quality. The problem is finding a system that has the resolution, bandwidth and dynamic range capability to explore what you’ve already got, even with the humble and abused Redbook format. Not to mention all the audiophile tricks to improve Redbook and any other digital format performance.
cheers,
GK, MD
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almarg
6,489 posts
06-26-2016 12:53pm
"It appears to me that in the initial reference to "genuine audiophile" the poster was simply using the word "genuine" to mean something along the lines of "sincere." In other words, in contrast to an audiophile who is attempting to disguise an interest in promoting a product."
That’s odd. It seems pretty clear that is NOT what he means. But I think I understand why YOU would say so. I have long maintained that it might be helpful to wear name tags that identify the wearer as a troll (T) or shill (S). ;-)
geoff kait
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almarg
6,490 posts
06-27-2016 8:34am
Geoff, the relevant part of his post was:
The problem is, there is too much misinformation/aka: b**s*** posted on this forum about TL and cables with fantastic magnets inside by posters who every man and his dog on here knows are NOT [emphasis added] genuine audiophiles.
One man’s misinformation or disinformation is another man’s information. It is one of the challenges of high end audio to figure out what is the truth in a minefield of misinformation and disinformation. I do not think any of us has a lock on what is bs and what is not bs on all topics, including the topic of exotic cables.
Cheers,
Geoff Kait
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Almarg wrote,
""TL" is an obvious reference to a certain brand of very expensive cables, if that isn’t clear. "Cables with fantastic magnets" is an obvious reference to another brand of very expensive cables."
I’m hip. I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
almarg also wrote,
"Each of those cables is the subject of a very long-running and lengthy thread here, and in each of those threads the most prominent advocate of those cables is an individual who at times has been claimed by certain posters in the thread to be, um, insincere."
Your conclusion is a judgement call, I’d opine, as to whether someone is being over zealous, insincere or dishonest, or shilling for someone. But I actually don’t think one can discern the difference between enthusiasm and insincerity or even shilling on the Internet so easily any more than one can detect irony or sarcasm is certain posts.
Almarg also wrote,
"Or to use some of my words that you quoted, to be "attempting to disguise an interest in promoting a product." In other words, to NOT be a "genuine audiophile," with "genuine" meaning something along the lines of "sincere," as I said."
Actually, the more I think about it there is no prohibition against promoting a product on this audio forum. I mean other than a manufacturer promoting his own product out of the blue.
Cheers,
G. Kait, Machina Dynamica
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Looks like those cables will come in real handy this winter when they cut off my heat.
- Super flexible even in sub-zero temperatures
ta ta
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mapman
13,425 posts
06-27-2016 11:32am
"TL is a reference to Tara Labs I believe.
When people read or hear teh words of others, its always a judgement call. People’s perceptions matter and do not always match the facts even if the facts are made clearly available. Its just the way things are and good for one to be aware of as opposed to banking on facts alone."
As Bill Murray shouts in his marching routine in front of the army brass, "Just the facts, Jack!"
As Bob Dylan says,
"You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination..."
“There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Boscombe Valley Mystery
;-)
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audiolabyrinthandbirdiemayarecommericalshills
9 posts
06-27-2016 10:13pm
Just the facts, Jack? What about the truth? If I posted the truth in this thread, I would be subjected to trolling attacks to discredit me in an effort to restore the status quo. The truth? I know it, but you can’t handle it. I will just say the rabbit hole runs deep..
I'm intrigued.
;-)
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audiolabyrinthandbirdiemayarecommericalshills
10 posts
06-28-2016 8:01am
@geoffkait , curiosity it useful. Let me know when you're determined.
Lay it on me, Stringbean. Be gentle.
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audiolabyrinthandbirdiemayarecommericalshills
11 posts
06-29-2016 2:20am
geoffkait3,657 posts06-28-2016 10:58pmaudiolabyrinthandbirdiemayarecommericalshills
10 posts
06-28-2016 8:01am
@geoffkait , curiosity it useful. Let me know when you're determined.
Lay it on me, Stringbean. Be gentle.
Geoff, truthfully if I published all I know about a couple of members on here, i'd be suspended or banned within 24hrs & receive reprisal attacks in return (as has happened before). Been there, done that. Not getting down in the sewer again. Besides, I think i've said all I need to say already..
I wish to avoid all that sort of thing, personal characterizations and so forth. I thought you were referring to the truth involved with cables. My bad.
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica |
danvignau
70 posts
07-02-2016 10:22am
There is a very small difference in the handling on my sports car with the absolute best tires I can get, and no the girls don't care. But why do we need to impress the boys with our toys?
You need to get an Alfa, dude. Then you will see how much difference tires make.
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