Anybody stop using power conditioning?


Has anybody ever purchased a powerline conditioner, liked it, but, then ultimately decide to take it out of the system? Is there a point at which very high-end components overcome the shortcomings of the ac coming from your wall?
crazy4blues
Don't share transport or CD player to your amp's on the same outlet. This seems the most effective way to remove the grainy high if rest of components are already fine. I used to have Martin Logan, and it is the best sensor to power line noise. You can hear the background noise after turning on lights or refrigerator running. Add one conditioner do help to reduce that noise. So, I think a good conditioner make sense if you can't isolate noisy electronics like air conditiner, refrigerator, PC, transport... to differet outlets. If you already isolate your noisy component, then it is not so critical.
I have no doubt that the results that folks have achieved are exactly as stated.

As we all know, not only is there the consideration of how much power is delivered, but also the quality and speed in which it can be delivered. Audioengr provided a small sample of the math involved in working through such problems. He discussed various impedances / problems found in common power cord / power delivery systems and the factors that these bring with them in terms of the speed and quantity of power provided. On top of this small yet vital part of the puzzle, one must also start to factor in such things as the quality of the power provided. Dielectric absorption, thermal losses, susceptability to RFI / EMI, distorted magnetic fields due to irregularities in the impedance of the cables, etc... are all factors that come into play. One will run into these variables with ANY type of cabling or electrical device that one attempts to use. As such, the "chain" is only as strong as the weakest link and should be viewed and approached as a whole.

Unless one can find a way to isolate the power being provided to the system from the AC mains using a low impedance / high current method, and then follow through the rest of the AC system with a high level of integrity, anything else is a band aid and side effects WILL result. This is why i do not doubt the poor results that some folks have encountered i.e. they were not a "complete" plan of attack but several different pieces of the puzzle thrown together at random. To top it off, some of those parts may not even be from the same puzzle i.e. they lacked compatibility with other components being used.

The approach that many audiophiles take to AC filtration / isolation is kind of like installing the wrong type / heat range of spark plug with the incorrect gap in a race motor. One "might" end up doing such simply because they were told by an "expert" ( i.e. "salesperson" ) that such parts would "work". Let's say that you took a spark plug that was designed for a lawn mower and installed several of them into a 1966 427 Shelby Cobra : ) Sure, the plug might thread into the hole in the block, just as all of your power cords and filters plug into each other just fine. No problems here. As the spark plugs are called upon to "work", the plug will fire i.e. the system still "works" and is running. However, the engine / system is surely NOT running optimally due to compatibility problems. Such a situation occurs even though all of the "basic" requirements of the installation were met. The end result is lower performance than expected. On top of this, you now have a LOT of side effects due to less than thorough planning and lack of parts compatibility. As such, it would be time to re-evaluate the approach taken and eliminate the source(s) of the problem.

With that in mind, we have to be able to achieve a high level of isolation from the mains to start off with. Not only are we isolating the system from what is in our own house, but what is on the lines being fed into the house. To do this properly, we have to have a filter / isolator that is capable of providing far more current than we will ever draw and do so without increasing the line impedance. From there, we would need to use a low inductance high current cable that takes advantage of a low absorption dielectric. This cable would also need to be configured in an RFI reduced geometry. All points of contact should be made using connections of similar materials that are protected from corrosion and / or maintained on a regular basis. The end result would be power that was "cleaned" first. That power would then be delivered on a timely basis in the quantity needed with the least amount of "damage" ( voltage drop / dielectric absorption / series resistance / phase & impedance problems ) possible. The potential for contamination after the initial filtering / isolation were accomplished would be minimized since we used cabling that is resistant to RFI and EMI. This is achieved through the use of specific geometries that also contribute to lowering inductance.

If one wanted to take that a step further and "go gonzo", it would not be hard to do. The use of further filtering / electrical isolation at the feedpoint to each individual component, so as to minimize cross contamination from component to component, could be taken advantage of. But, once again, one must pay attention to the manner in how the filtering is done and the impedance / speed of delivery that said filtering introduces into the system. The filtering / isolation for a CD player would NOT be the same as that required for an amp in terms of current capacity and / or electrical design.

This is a "total approach" to AC filtration that is not difficult, but it can be costly. The main expenses would be coming up with the equipment necessary to filter / isolate vast quantities of current at the mains while maintaining a low impedance with minimal leakage. After that, there are plenty of mass produced quality cables that one could select from. The same thing goes for points of connection ( outlets, power plugs, necessary jacks, etc..) and individual filtration / isolation devices at the component level. Whether or not one wants to take the necessary steps to provide "total approach" AC conditioning is up to them. If one takes a lesser approach, one can and should expect lesser results. Sean
>
albertporter,i agree with you that power filtration kills the musical nuances we are paying so much to hear so i removed mine. i have a question for you and others who have done the same thing,how do you protect all that fine equipment from power surges or lightning strikes? my home was hit by lightning and it fried my phones,tv,alarm system and some lights but thank the audio gods not my system. the electrician who made the repairs said he see's this all the time. i heard that some folks have put some kind of protection in the breaker panel, has anyone tried this? if so,how does it effect the power delivery to the equipment if any?
Capeguy, I have no protection. It does worry me, especially during those electrical storms that Texas and Oklahoma are famous for.

When the weather turns really ugly, I simply do not play my stereo. Sometime I get so paranoid I unplug the main components.

I too received a lighting strike, probably nearly twenty years ago, but still fresh on my mind. The damage was almost identical as described by you, including (thank goodness) my stereo escaping any damage at all.
1. There are NO absolutes in this or any other audio-related area. What works great for you won't necessarily do so well at my house etc. etc.

2. Yes I once stopped using line conditioning - for about half an hour. The sibilance came right back along with the dirty power. I still used the dedicated circuit with transorbs & upgrade AC cords.
With dedicated lines, only now the dirt is dedicated
John I love that statement! Couldn't have said it any better myself so I'll appropriate yours. Thanks.

3. Philes like Cape & Albert should at least install whole house surge protection if they find that a line conditioner isn't doing them right. If your area has thunderstorms, then once you've been hit by lightning then you'll better understand the ramifications of no protection. You won't always be at home to turn everything off & unplug it just in time. Then believe my, you'll cry. Even in storm free areas, line transients can be severe & damaging.
I use a Joslyn gas-tube-discharge parallel transorb at the house panel & also I parallel MOV's across my dedicated outlets. And I STILL power down & unplug everything when storms are nearby. I've learned my expensive lesson the hard way - twice!