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Any comments on DAC going direct to power amplifier or to pre-ampliifer?

My local retailer HIGHLY RECOMMENDS the use of a pre-amplifier.  Bricasti believes that going direct to a power amplifier sounds better.  And, I also know that everyone had a "different opinion" about going direct or using a pre-amplifier.  

I am running my Bricast1 M1 SE DAC direct to my Hypex NCore NC400 Bridged Mono Block class D power amplifiers (no pre-amplifier) and like the sound quality very much.   

For me, the sound is more natural and clearer by going direct to a power amplifier. Of course, I think the M1 SE DAC has special “custom" circuits in the analog section to make it sound so good. I returned home and listened to my system.  It sounds terrific and I continue to enjoy and recommend the Bricasti M1 SE DAC.

Please note that we removed the R141 (circuit) from my Hypex NCore NC400 bridged mono blocks, thus lowering amplifier gain by 14 dB, requiring 14 dB higher M1 volume setting for same playback level.  Bricasti says the goal is to have the M1 CLOSE to 0db front panel attenuation.  If you reduce the volume on the M1 SE DAC, you cause more bit reduction meaning you lose sound quality.   We discussed this modification with Hypex and they approved the removal of the R141 circuit.  They suggested we be very careful removing the 4 R141 chips (for my 4 NC400 amplifiers) to avoid board damage.  

I noticed that many of the newer DAC’s (even the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC and many others) have volume controls meaning their DAC/Pre-amplifiers are designed to go direct to a power amplifier (as an option, of course).  

What are your experiences of going direct to a power amplifier or using a pre-amplifier?  Have you compared going direct vs. going to a pre-amplfier and noticed any sound quality differences?  Have you gotten different results from using different DAC's and amplifiers?   Your comments are appreciated.  Thanks.





hgeifman
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
985 posts
 
Yes get a Schiit Freya (active/passive, tube/ss, etc/etc) with remote which has a superb relay controled volume control, balanced or SE, and you can have it all, so you can see for yourself what suits. Compared to direct connection.
And you can send the Schiit back, if you think the direct connection wins out.http://schiit.com/products/freya 

Great suggestion by @georgehifi.

The Schitt Freya sounds like a truly amazing product for $699 with a return policy to boot. Anyone in the market for a preamp should most certainly give it a home audition. There seems to be nothing at all to lose here.

I wish more companies would come out with such a preamp with all these selectable options at various price points to suit different systems.
lancelock
1,087 posts
 
I have a new Modwright Oppo Sonica and with its beautiful sounding tube output stage it's a giant killer, dynamic, warm and detailed. I seem to prefer it to my DS DAC at the moment. There is a new firmware update coming from PS audio so I will compare again. No preamp needed.
ciamara's avatar
ciamara
5 posts
 
In my experience you can get very good results going from a digital source w/ VC directly into an amp, but the quality of those results very much depends on the design and implementation of the digital VC. I find that even the best digital components with well executed designs (dCS, Berkeley Audio Design, Bricasti, Weiss, etc) are still no substitute for a well designed, quality analog preamp. 
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
I find that even the best digital components with well executed designs (dCS, Berkeley Audio Design, Bricasti, Weiss, etc) are still no substitute for a well designed, quality analog preamp.
Yes, they can be, and better, but you must use them in the top 25% of their full output, if below they can strip bits of the music and reduce resolution.
Bricasti, know this and on their vc they give you internal total gain adjustment to lower the gain so you can use their vc the the top 25% of full.

Wadia, Mark Levinson, and others also knew this years ago and here is Wadia’s instructions for this on three of their units, other had it too. Page 6 of the first two pdf’s.

http://www.wadia.com/ContentsFiles/20ef6f0f-c959-4e83-87a8-42526b37becf.pdf

http://www.wadia.com/contentsfiles/25401fda-06b6-4c3a-e028-47fdfed426ba.pdf

Page11
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwio2MLrmZbUAhWHLpQKHa5DBGIQFgg2MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpdfstream.manualsonline.com%2F2%2F2318835c-2846-49ef-a25a-21ac9649bd17.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHBroBScCMkOBNe5ThVpdLFA8idJA

Cheers George
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
985 posts
 
Yes, they can be, and better, but you must use them in the top 25% of their full output, if below they can strip bits of the music and reduce resolition.....


So, we can easily compare direct to power amp at top 25% of full output of dac’s VC vs with preamp and then decide with our own ears.

This is a very simple A/B and we can all share our experience with any of the dac’s listed above.

J. :)

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