Advice on system and speaker placement-B&W

If you can't have the speakers further out into the room or closer together, have you tried relocating them to the long wall? I had some older B&W M801s in that kind of arrangement and they imaged amazingly well despite everything being "wrong" about it. The speakers were about 10' apart and 12" out from the wall (to the back of the speaker box). In this position, the speakers became transparent, and it sounded like the music was coming out of the wall between them, with considerable depth in the sound image. I've never heard anything else like that, before or since.

Note: In the setup I just described, the long wall behind the speakers consisted of traditional interior plaster over solid masonry. That combination of materials might have accounted for much of the acoustic success in an otherwise atypical placement. Thus, if you can move your speakers, I'd also recommend that you determine which is the most solid wall in the room, and try the speakers in front of it. Start out with your 10' spread and approximate listening position, and then play with pushing the speakers a few inches toward or away from the wall until the image "focuses" on it. If it isn't working, try putting them a little closer together and repeat the exercise, or adjust the toe-in. Keep an open mind about listening position too, as you change the speaker positions.

Jeff,
My recommendation would be to obtain a subwoofer. I currently have N803's but just sold a pair of 703's which also had the problem of being to bright at times. Your 804's should be o.k but I think a sub will give you the warmth in sound you are looking for. The 700 series sub from B&W is very musical. Also, Velodyne has some very nice subs. Even Outlaw has had excellent reviews on there sub.
I would stike with a forward driving sub that is ported just like your current speakers.

if you are open to getting rid of the 804's you would also see a significant difference with a pair of 803's or 802's due to the cabinet size difference. I hope this helps. Dont get me wrong your 804's are a great speaker so if it was me I would start by trying a sub with your system.

Dave

Thx for your response. Unfortunatley, I can't move them along the longer wall, so not an option.

Another thing, the reason I'm wondering about the source, is that I have an old kenwood tuner that sounds alot less bright and pretty good for the poorly recorded rock on my cd player. Dave, did cd player have much effect on your system?

Jeff

Jeff,

I have been in your shoes before and actually started buying music based on the recording, not what I was into as I wanted things to sound good and not bright. You have gotten some good advice from Dave and Ubglub.

Here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. The Rotel and MF are not the best match for your speakers. They never will be either. Based on my experience, the best match for your speakers is Tube Amplication. The metal dome tweeter in your speaker is just not getting along with your average SS amplfication.

This is from a review and I agree totally.

"The N804 prefers tube amplification. Being a tool, it has very little sound of its own. It does not seem to be voiced either on the cool and analytical side or the warm and sweet side. On the other hand, the superior resolution clearly presents any hint of the typical solid-state characteristics of coolness and upper frequency grain. Less than top-quality "sand" amplification should be avoided."

The Rotel stuff is okay for the money but your speakers deserve better. I would sell the MF and the Rotel and get a Tube Integrated or even a Hybrid. The Unison Unico would be a stellar match and make everything shine. Even less than perfect recordings. Or take a look at some full tube rigs like Cary, Manley, or Prima Luna.

This WILL fix your problem. Moving the speakers and adding a sub may help but will only band-aid what you are experiencing.

List your MF and Rotel on Audiogon and go shoppping. Your CD Player and speakers are not your problem. Good luck.

Chris

I really think you have an issue with speaker placement. I also have N804's. However, they are currently in a dedicated listening room (15'x22'x9.5) , so I can place them anywhere I want. I found that using the Cardas method really works out well. Speakers are 6'-1" from the front wall and 3'-10" from side walls. Spacing is 7'-4".

For the size of your room, the 804's may be a bit small. You might move up the B&W line to the new 803S or 803D. Actually, any of the larger B&W's would work. Given that you can't move the 804's and considering that you may not want to drop 8k for new speakers, you could try a tubed preamp and see what that does to the sound, imaging, dynamics, etc. As someone noted above, they do respond well to tubes, so if you like the results from a tubed pre, then you can try a tubed amp. I am using a tubed pre and SS amp(VTL 5.5/Krell 2250). BTW, I doubt that your CDP is the cause of this. Hope this helps some. Good luck.