Dear @luckyx02: I read that information like 3 months ago, very good and unique information about.
Obviously that for some of us, like me, the ADC25/26/27 are a true discovery even that I own the cartridges for several years now.
What is your listen experiences in these times with those great ADC Pritchard design? do you still think in that way?
Thank's in advance.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Hi Raul,nothing has changed from that days. My ADC26 (ADC25 still in his original box) is mounted actually on the BSR 800 with the concrete damping and his Linn basik LV-V arm. Tracking force is 0,7p as recommened and its playing flawless anything including the canons of the Telarc 1812 LP. If you like ithe sound, you should check the ADC-K8 (OEM model) or the adequate QLM30. The sound beats a Koetsu, but it needs mass and high tracking force 3-4p. The sound wins with every fraction of a gram. Make the selftest and start with 2,5p. There is no cheaper way to vinyl heaven.... The last times I collect the headshell integrated systems "Integra" in all versions. Matching my American Audio HTD 4.5. Universal in any direction: mass and VTA adjustable. Enjoy the best cart’s ever made Lutz |
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Dear @luckyx02: Well as you can read in the thread I compare the ADC 26/27 against today top LOMC cartridges as the Lyra Etna SL, Clearaudio Goldfinger, My Sonic Labs, etc etc and overall no one of them really outperformed.
Yes, there are specific cartridge performance qualities on those models that we can like more than in the others but overall all performs great and the ADC 26/27 along all them.
I'm using VTF of 1.1gr. but now that the cartridge settle down I will set up with lower VTF. I own the 25 and 26 with four styluses: one black red dot, the white 26 and two beige 27s.
Btw, I own the QLM that I never ñistened so in the future I will do it. Rigth now I'm satisfied with the quality performance levels by the 26/27 as never before and I mean it.
R.
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Dear friends: That future was today because the " curiosity " wins.
I mounted my QLM with 3.5grs on VTF and I have to say that it's not near the ADC 26/27.
The QLM performs good but in my place nothing extraordinary and ceratinly can't competes with top LOMC cartridges.
In my opinion the stand alone EPC 100 C MK4 outperforms with easy the QLM but not the 26/27.
Anyway, Lutz gave me the opportunity to listen the QLM for the first time.
R. |
I look forward to the sequel to your first epic thread.
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I recently purchased a Sonus Gold Blue MM Cartridge after listeningto an Pickering ESV3000 and a Grace F9E and hearing the virtues of MM designs for the past. I really like the presentation they produce. I am getting addicted. |
Thats what one of my visitors wrote about it :
"ADC (K8) came today. When
I arrived home, I got it, of course, times roughly adjusted (Lenco
L55), MFSL Sergio Mendes and Brasil launched 66 and then: WOW! I did not think that it sounds so good. Extremely detailed and fine in resolution. The instruments detached from the speakers and stand firmly in the stage. Brutal deep bass, it sounds very fast and accurate, yet somehow calmly. I'm really what comes from the stool out. Everything sounds razor sharp! As an amplifier I have the Technics SU V 3, a TVV 46 and ProAcs Super tablets Yamaha subwoofer. Is really hard. I
like almost better as my Sanyo Q50 with ADC 25 at Sansui amp and
Celestion Ditton 22 This also shows that the best Sytem is useless if
the arm does not fit. The Technics Amp underlines this, if you can confirm Yorcks statements that this rauswirft only that whatever comes in. Simply brilliant, perfect!
Dear Lutz, Thank you !! I do not know what to say Perhaps only one thing: You've got it just depends !!!
LG
M."
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I owned the 25 3-stylus set back in the mid-60's, and it was and is a great cartridge. BUT it absolutely requires a very low mass arm. Pritchard sold a light wooden gimbaled arm for it, which I used with a Thorens turntable until I mucked up the arm. Then switched to a Rabco ST-4 with linear tracking arm which was also extremely low mass. Eventually I ended up with an ADC XLM which I liked equally well and had a better stylus shape, I seem to recall. I sold the ADC 25 set years ago, but wish today I had it still. I still use the XLM today in my second system, with an OEM Shibata replacement stylus. |
Jepp, the XLM series ist the easiest way to listen to Pritchards work. I have luck to own his later on only "private" selled Typ IV of the XLM after the BSR judgement in 1986. I think Its the summary of his work.All other could have problems with channel inbalance out of the pole shoe miss-configuration. Sometimes a piece of paper on one side of the needle can rescue it.
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Dear @bimasta @tzh21y : I started the MM/MI long thread now because in those times I discovered a true and real analog alternative to the very well regarded LOMC cartridges.
Was in the very old times when the cartridge market was dominated by all those vintage MM/MI cartridges and not by MC ones as today.
The competition in between all those MM/MI cartridge manufacturers was really a " world war " and that one fierce competition made it that each designer made it at their best knowledge levels. Almost " each day " came out a new cartridge to compete in that market.
That’s why exist so many vintage cartridges with so good quality level performance but today exist too very good MM/MI performers coming from: Reson, Audio Note UK, Grado, Ortofon, AT, Nagaoka, Sumiko etc.. I don’t name SoundSmith because it try to compete in price against MC today designs when the other today manufacturers of MM/MI cartridges comes with very reasonable market prices.
Again, MM/MI is a good alternative and at its price a real bargain. Good LOMC cartridges outperforms the MM/MI alternative but at really very high price for.
Something that does not honor the MM/MI cartridges is that almost exist no-dedicated/designed phono stages that achieve all MM/MI needs. Normally the phono stages are designed for LOMC ones and does not comes with a dedicated/separated MM true stages to fulfill all what the MM/MI are asking for.
R. |
Hi Raul. personally, I don't believe the hype or your new cartridge of the month..
please send me the cartridge and I will use it on my Pioneer Exclusive P3 and Technics SP10mk3 with Thales arm. If it is as good as you say I will buy it.
cheers |
I will say there is something to the naturalness and the way the music is presented on MM/MI cartridges. In many ways better then MC, especially when it come to the Timbre with Cymbals woodwinds and voices. WOW. The Pickering cartridge I am using is just incredible. I was so impressed that I bought an old Sonic Sonus Gold Blue Cartridge. Even if it is worn, I am still ahead with the Pickering. I would say it easily beats many cartridges. If it is in good condition, it will be a major win in my opinion. Overall for both Five hundred bucks it will sounds as good potentially as spending much more. |
Dear @downunder: I don’t believe your Thales hype neither, just joking.
Now if you are talking seriously and you are willing to pay according its quality level performance ( not as a vintage IM cartridge. Not even near the EPC100cMK4 price. ) that puts the cartridge at Etna or any other top LOMC I named here then email me here: rauliruegas@hotmail.com
R.
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Dear friends: Last week came to my place the owners of the Etna Sl and Goldfinger cartridges to pick-up their cartridge and to have a listening session.
We started listening to those both cartridges and after a while I switched to the ADC 26/27 with out telling them which cartridge we will listening it.
We used the same LP tracks that already heard it and after a few minutes to listening the ADC and with out say a word both turn their face to each one with their " open eyes " expresion. They like it what was hearing. We followed with those LP tracks and when I told them what we were listening those " eyes " gave a non-credibility expresion. They were really impressed as me.
One of the LP in that listening session was the the D2D M&K Flamenco Fever and we listened to two tracks in the side one. First was Danza Mora and the second is Farruca.
The recording session took place at " El Matador " club in west LA and that first track is a solo of an extraordinary guitarrist that in this D2D is so lively that you can’t believe what you are hearing.
The second track will have a meaning only for those gentlemans that already experienced flamenco dancers in the " tablao ". The track start with those dancers playing castanets and if you already heard live at near field those castanets: its impact, transient and it power dynamics that’s exactly what you will find in this track played by the ADC but the more impressive starts when the dancers starts to dance and stamp/tap their heels and only if you already experienced live those flamenco dancers could understand the very high level of lively track experiences because they use to their hand and those hands applause and finger clips are astonishing.
We have to interrupt the session because started a heavy rain with thunders and hail. Here in México it’s raining time and rain almost every single day in México city.
After the storm we continue the listening session that gaves us the opportunity ( because I remembered. ) to listen two tracks of the MoFi ( 004. ) The Power and the Majesty Lp that as you know is not a music recording and by coincidence in one side was recorded a thunderstorm like the one we just experienced. This recording is exceptional one and was recorded with a custom made tape recorder live and I don’t know the microphone that were used.
Anyway, the track is a full lesson an room/system evaluation test. Our experience was and is so vivid that striking us the reality of the sounds when the hail strikes against the window glass exactly as we just experienced live a few minutes ago and followed by the rain water drops fall and striking to the surface was so real that there are no words to express it. What we heard was something like what @luckyx02 posted in this thread:
""" the midrange presence so good that you look scared when the turns / singers / in gets going if you are not alone in the room. """
Outstanding. The other side of that LP are the sounds coming for live steam locomotives through its railroad. All the track is impressive ( depending of the quality performance levels of your room/syste. ) and the locomotives came with air horns and steam whistles and when you listen the very first of the steam whistle sound you just give a " steps back " because at the same time the all train is passing in front of you. You need to listen this track at high SPL.
At the end of the session one of my friends ask me to listen again his cartridge and even that performs very well he was not satisfied against what he just listened with the ADC.
This week I will be at his place with the ADC 26/27.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@downunder tha’s the quality of the " month " cartridge. Obviously you don’t have idea about because never listened it,, the ADC is superior to your Technics. I'm still waiting your email. |
Raul. You are a funny man. as if anyone is going to take risk on a 50 year old cartridge and pay big bucks for it.
How long would the suspension, dampers and every other part of the cartridge last if you used it as your everyday spinner - rather than the cartridge of the month for a few hours?
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@downunder in fact Technics cartridges are notorius for suspension problems, but people pays grazy prices for those models promoted by Raul, easily $2k or near. He has never explained in this thread how those problems were fixed by Van Den Hul and how much he paid for it (VgH service is extremely expensive). Nandrdic posted that it’s impossible to repair Technics suspension, unfortunately. I’ve had completely refurbished 205c mk4 models, but the whole stylus/cantilever and its housing were replaced (by Axel), so it’s no more the original. The genuine 205c mk4 was much better cartridge, but with failed suspension as 99% of them in this world. Prices for this model is getting up every year, but the buyers are getting a cart (which is impossible to fix) for nearly 2 grands with failed suspension (crazy). At the same time there are many more vintage MM cartridges much better than Technics and those carts designed with better materials, the suspension on my vintage cartridges never fail (except for the Technics). I’ve never seen a Technics 205 series with proper suspension, all of them are bad for this reason and i’ve had many different samples. Same rubber ring has been used on the most expensive 100c mk4 which goes for even higher price than 205c mk4... I don’t know how you guys can use this cartridge (if they are not refurbished). But when they are refurbished by VdH i believe this is no longer an original Technics. People who serviced them with VdH should spread the light how it was possible to "refresh" the suspension without replacing the cantilever and its housing? I have no idea about it, wish to know!
It the beginning of this thread he has raved about that Technics, claimed that’s the best ever MM, but now he clearly stated it was surpassed by some other cartridges. The hype is over.
From the start i realized this is the most problematic cartridge ever! And once i’ve scored the minty original, i soon realized, i have a better cartridges, also japanese vintage MM, but they don’t need expensive service at all. Manufacturer were smarter and suspension never fail even after 30 years. |
@chakster I am well aware of the technics EPC 1000mk4 problems. I own one. Its an amazing cartridge while it lasted.
VDH did some naughty crap without telling me when they put a new stylus onto the cantilever a few years back after it literally fell off.
The VDH stylus is good but certainly does not sound as good as the original.
personally, these days I stick with my Lyra Atlas SL - it really is king of every mountain for me.
cheers |
@downunder i remember that you have it, your comment is interesting: VDH did some naughty crap without telling me when they put a new stylus onto the cantilever a few years back after it literally fell off.
The VDH stylus is good but certainly does not sound as good as the original. @knollbrent you see why re-tipping vintage MM is not always a good idea even if the stylus profile is better than the original (low mass elliptical). This is the reason why i prefer original cartridges. |
the Lyras are great no doubt about it. |
Dear friends: I forgot something interesting I learned in the session listening with my friends.
One of them look the M&K D2D Earl " Fatha " Hines recording and we listened but when I was reading the LP cover I learned that Earl Hines together with Louis Amstrong recorded their first D2D LP in 1928 and by coincidence the E.Hines by M&K was recorded 50 years latter.
Hines was a great piano player and the M&K LP is really good and shows the E.Hines skillful about.
Btw, latter on I will post to that so high ignorance or bad memory levels already posted here. Always is a day to learn, unfortunatelly some people never learn or only want to attack some one .
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
Dear @downunder: """ personally, I don’t believe the hype or your new cartridge of the month.... """ Certainly it’s not the a hype and certainly it’s not " cartridge of the month " and that’s why I started a specific thread for it. In the other side was to what you call " the cartridge of the month " in the MM thread where all of us discovered several MM/MI/IM cartridges that because its performance quality levels till today some of us are considered as a good alternative to the well regarded LOMC cartridges. No it can’t competes yet to the top today LOMC cartridges but the ADC 26/27. In all that MM thread " voyage " we found out excellent, very good, good, average and mediocre performers and we learned about but with out that MM thread you never could have the opportunity to listen the Technics EPC100CMK4 ( stand alone model ) or the AT 25/24. OF all those discovered cartridges the AKG and Technics were almost the only ones with some kind of problems and I remember very well that we found out a source for your stand alone Technics model, this source had 8 NOS units and you and me were some of the ones that bougth it. After that source never comes out another NOS of that stand alone Technics model. I had your same problem with my sample before you and VDH was the only that fix it. Maybe because for many years that model was the cartridge reference of Dr. vDh whom manufactured MM cartridges too, I own two models that I not listened yet. Your posts about in the MM thread were way different on what you posted in this thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc/post?postid=944...https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc/post?postid=968...https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc/post?postid=983...Those were your words. Btw, I own the stand alone version of the AT25: AT24, really good performer. """ How long would the suspension, dampers and every other part of the cartridge last if you used it as your everyday spinner - rather than the cartridge of the month for a few hours? """ in the same way that with the Technics but looking through the internet and by what Lutz shared here no one owner of the ADC 26/27/25 reported problems with the cartridge suspension, me neither. Even I posted here that due that I own two cartridge bodies maybe I will send one cartridge for a change of cantilever/stylus tip and if need it dampers and fine tunned suspension. I’m sure that will be an improvement for the better because the important subject in the quality performance level on any cartridge is the: self cartridge motor and in the case of the ADC 26/27 I can get better " materials " down there with out touch its motor: boron instead the aluminum cantilever and VDH stylus tip insted an old elliptical stylus shape and ceratinly better dampers and the like. No, the original hollow Technics cantilever is an inferior design that a solid rod of today boron cantilevers, the hollow one is more resonant and suceptible to develops vibrations that does not exist in the LP grooves and today quality of stylus shapes are way better than the vintage ones. The motor is the real and true subject. Got It? """ The VDH stylus is good but certainly does not sound as good as the original. "" Not true, it sounds different but in anyway the original is superior. That you like it the original ( you hve very good udio memory but very bd memory on wht you sid in the pst ? ? ? ) does not means is better. Shane, makes no sense what you are saying. BTW, Of all the Technics models I owned/own including the top LOMC one only the EPC00C MK4 gave me trouble. The ADC 25/26/27 is the only non LOMC cartridge that can challenges today top LOMC included your Atlas that was challenged by the Technics that’s outperformed by the ADC. Shane, do it a favor and don’t follow ignorant people because you will or are contaminated by. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
All said above is BS that comes from the same person who raved about several MM cartridges over the years with exactly the same comments, last time is was the Astacis FM2500 claimed to be "the best of the best" and many other cartridges. In fact NOS EPC100cmk4 was available for sale this year along with several NOS samples of EPC205c mk4, so don’t pretend to be elitist. No one can fix those cartridges, anyone can ask jpjones who is a Technics collector and own many of them including top models. Refurbished cartridges is not what a true collectors looking for, they does NOT have an original "Technics sound" and for this reason there are many better cartridges, an original ones from the same era. J.Carr also commented that there is NO technical advantages in the design of that 100c mk4, there is nothing special in the generator. In my opinion two versions of the AT-ML180 are much better (OFC with gold plated Boron Cantilever and OCC with Gold plated Beryllium cantilever) and there is no problem with suspension at all, some top of the line Grace models (Level II and F-14) are amazing and all of them have exotic Boron cantilevers and much better styli (Micro Ridge), there are more great cartridges from that era too.
What the OP should learn is English language.
Many english speaking persons pointed him to the "ignorant" word, but this idi*t continue to use it and addressed it to many audiogon members preneding to be a Oracle of High-End, but in fact he's an egoistic and very rude person. Once he has crossed the red line in communication on puplic forum, no respect anymore!
At the same time he is a person who left unpaid bill for many thousands euros from his ex re-tipper in Germany. It’s been said here on audiogon by another member who knew that re-tipper (now retired) in person. Would you trust this person ? No way.
Instead everyone if free to find the best cartridges to judge them individually. But destroying some unique original cartridges, refurbishing them with different parts is the last thing to do for any serious collectors/audiophiles. For a fans of VdH there are VdH cartridges available new or used.
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With the Technics EPC-100 mk4 there is a little screw in the front that you use to unscrew to remove the cantilever/stylus.
Vdh decided to glue the stylus instead of using the the screw, then cut the thread off and glue the screw head so it looked like it had been screwed in.
Only when I found a NOS stylus replacement I found out this issue as I could not unscrew the old stylus, until the screw head broke off and I saw the glue.
VdH at no stage asked me or told me what they did to the cartridge
Raul - the VdH re-tip did not sound better. The technics stylus was more detailed and had better frequency extremes. The VdH was a little more rounded with less extenion at both ends - was this part due to them fcuken gluing the stylus into cartridge body - I will never know.
Personally I would not PISS on Van Den Hul.
You only have to look at the issues he has with his own cartridges over the years.
and Raul - Yes I got two wonderful carts with the technics and AT25 - but also a draw full of very ordinary MM carts. I do like the Elac DN 795E a lot as well. |
''histoire se repete'': ''the king is dead long live the king''. Chakster what kind of (state) function do you have in mind for your ''buddy''? |
do it a favor and don’t follow ignorant people because you will or are contaminated by. All said above by Raul is BS. It comes from the same person who raved about several MM cartridges over the years with exactly the same comments, last time is was the Astatic FM2500 claimed to be "the best of the best" and many other cartridges. In fact NOS EPC100cmk4 was available for sale this year along with several NOS samples of EPC205c mk4, so don’t pretend to be elitist. No one can fix those cartridges, anyone can ask jpjones who is a Technics collector and own many of them including top models. Refurbished cartridges is not what a true collectors looking for, they does NOT have an original "Technics sound" and for this reason there are many better cartridges, an original ones from the same era. J.Carr also commented that there is NO technical advantages in the design of that 100c mk4, there is nothing special in the generator. In my opinion two versions of the AT-ML180 are much better (OFC with gold plated Boron Cantilever and OCC with Gold plated Beryllium cantilever) and there is no problem with suspension at all, some top of the line Grace models (Level II and F-14) are amazing and all of them have exotic Boron cantilevers and much better styli (Micro Ridge), there are more great cartridges from that era too. What the OP should learn is English language. Many english speaking persons pointed him to the "ignorant" word he used before, but this id**t continue to use it and addressed it to many audiogon members preneding to be a Oracle of High-End, but in fact he’s an egoistic and very rude person. Once he has crossed the red line in communication on puplic forum, no respect anymore! At the same time he is a person who left unpaid bill for many thousands euros from his ex re-tipper in Germany. It’s been said here on audiogon by another member who knew that re-tipper (now retired) in person. Would you trust this person ? No way. Instead everyone if free to find the best cartridges to judge them individually. But destroying some unique original cartridges, refurbishing them with different parts is the last thing to do for any serious collectors/audiophiles. For a fans of VdH there are VdH cartridges available new or used. |
do it a favor and don’t follow ignorant people because you will or are contaminated by.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
It comes from the same person who raved about several MM cartridges over the years with exactly the same comments, last time is was the Astatic FM2500 claimed to be "the best of the best" and many other cartridges. In fact NOS EPC100cmk4 was available for sale this year along with several NOS samples of EPC205c mk4, so don’t pretend to be elitist. No one can fix those cartridges, anyone can ask jpjones who is a Technics collector and own many of them including top models. Refurbished cartridges is not what a true collectors looking for, they does NOT have an original "Technics sound" and for this reason there are many better cartridges, an original ones from the same era. J.Carr also commented that there is NO technical advantages in the design of that 100c mk4, there is nothing special in the generator. In my opinion two versions of the AT-ML180 are much better (OFC with gold plated Boron Cantilever and OCC with Gold plated Beryllium cantilever) and there is no problem with suspension at all, some top of the line Grace models (Level II and F-14) are amazing and all of them have exotic Boron cantilevers and much better styli (Micro Ridge), there are more great cartridges from that era too. What the OP should learn is English language. Many english speaking persons pointed him to the "ignorant" word he used before, but he continue to use it and addressed it to many audiogon members preneding to be a Oracle of High-End, but in fact he’s an egoistic and very rude person. Once he has crossed the red line in communication on puplic forum, no respect anymore! At the same time he is a person who left unpaid bill for many thousands euros from his ex re-tipper in Germany. It’s been said here on audiogon by another member who knew that re-tipper (now retired) in person. Would you trust this person ? No way. Instead everyone is free to find the best cartridges to judge them individually. But destroying some unique original cartridges, refurbishing them with different parts is the last thing to do for any serious collectors/audiophiles. For a fans of VdH there are VdH cartridges available new or used.
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Dear @downunder : For almost a year you was listening to the original cartridge till came down. As I posted my sample falls down before and I send it to a re-ttiper whom return the cartridge because he can’t fixed and was then when I remembered about the VDH past relation ship with that cartridge and was there where was fixed and that’s why I gave my advise when you look for help in those times.
I knew that the VDH fixed cartridge came with solid boron cantilever and with the great VDH stylus instead the original elliptical.
My reaction when I started to listening to it was the same you had in what you posted in that link. I was really satisfied with.
I’m not an expert building or designing cartridges, my ignorance levels about are really high so I never cared what VDH made to fix it because the subject was that the cartridge probabilities to fix it were really low so that they did it was a true achievement and as I said I was satisfied with is high quality level performance as you was.
The original elliptical stylus tip is not superior to the VdH one, the real difference is in the set up where is more easy to find out the spot on VTA/SRA/AZ/VTF in the elliptical than in the very special VdH line contact one.
In the other side no matters what if you have a hollow tube of any metal and you hit it it will sounds to " lively " against the same solid metal tube when you hit it: here the sound will be a little " dull .
The " lively " sound are only higher resonances/vibrations that means higher distortions and that’s exactly what you are listening in your today sample.
Not really better sound but a sound with higher distortions/resonances that the cantilever develops and that those cantilever tiny movements does not comes from the recording information in the LP grooves. The solid boron cantilever in the VdH work has way lower resonances and lower non-existent movements. Normally distortions sounds as more " lively "/edgy than when exist lower distortions that means more neutral not exactly rounded but neutral with better tonal balance.
That you like more the " lively " ellptical tip more it does not means is superior to the one from VdH because is not.
Was thank’s to VdH work that your today original cantilever/stylus works. I don’t blame VdH in any way because they fixed to me at least other 10 cartridges.
Btw, I owned and own several Colibri VdH samples, I bougth always the very low output of their Colibri line: 0.22mv that are the ones that performs the best.
Only with one of them I had a problem and was because my fault when the mounted Colibri fall down ( suddenly ) from the tonerm rest position to the platter/LP TT.
I have to say that the Colibri rides too low and is very sensible to mishandling it even when we need to clean the stylus tip. If we do the clean with no full care about we can easily damage and suspension collapse but other than this the Colibri is a first rate performer and hard to beat.
In other order of ideas those MAXX 3 and the whole room/system quality level performance will be benefitiated with the integration of two powered subwoofers and running the MAXX’s through a high pass filter. Not looking to chime about, only an advise. for the better.
Yes the Elac is very good, I own the top one 896 thank’s to that MM thread.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
tzh21yHow does your Sonus Blue Gold compare to your Pickering now ? There was another sample for sale on eBay just recently, if someone here on A´gon purchased it I´ll be interested in how it performs in his/her´s system. |
There is only one Sonus that never came to my radar:
Sonus Dimension 5 which is the best in that series, all lower models are often available for sale on ebay, except that one.
Another cartridge which does not impressed me at all was that top of the line ADC Astrion with sapphire cantilever.
But seriously there are two absolutely amazing MM cartridges, they are impossible to beat: AT-ML180 OFC (Boron/MiroLine) and Grace LEVEL II LC-OFC (Boron/MicroRidge) or F-14 (Beryllium/MicroRidge). For those of you who’re serious about top vintage MM should look for them as the reference! For more organic presentation the Stanton SC-100 WOS (Sapphire-coated cantilever / Stereohedron tip) and Victor X-1II (Beryllium/Shibata) are agreat too. Save your time and money and simply buy the best cartridges instead of some inferiour models from Sonus, ADC etc. If someone will tell your that some rare ADC is more expensive than the most problematic Technics cartridges, do yourself a favour and ignore it. The greatest MM ever made are all under $1500 today, most of them are under $700-1000 max, even in NOS condition. That Technics is the most expensive and overrated cartridge because of the Mexican thread, but 99% of the NOS sampes are all dead, after you will play one side of the record the cartridge almost lay down to the record surface (this is the best example how BAD is the suspension of Technics 100cmk4 or 205c mk4 cartridges). None of the vintage MM cartridges from many other manufacturers have such problem with suspension! So they are better and does not require crazy investment in refurbishing with VdH (his prices for service are the highest on the planet) who can not stay with original parts and most likely will refurbish the cartridge with different parts/material, most likely will replace the whole cantilever/stylus assemply with something different). No one on this forum can explain what VdH does with several samples of the Technics, so we don’t even know was a cartridge completely refurbished or not, but people just keep paying him rediculous fee for service. I’ve seen and owned various refurbished Technics 100c mk3 and 205c mk4 all of them were refurbished by experiences and respected vendors with completely different cantilevers/styli and that was the only was to keep them alive. Original Technic have unique cantilever (hollow pipe boron) and lowest effective mass stylus, replaceing them will change the sound! Many japanese manufacturers such as Audio-Technica made better cartridges with better styli and better cantilevers, those carts never ever had so many problems as the Technics.
Don’t waste your time and money for retipping/refurbishing top vintage MM cartridges, they will never be as good as the originals, also the main benefit of MM design is a stylus replacement which can be purchased separately (NOS) even for some very rare models. Your MC does not have this option and this is the reason why i prefer an MM/MI/MF/IM instead of MC in many cases. |
I just received it yesterday. It looks brand new... thats a lot of years without use. not sure how the suspension will be but it was worth a try. I will set it up in t he next few days |
Dear friends: As I posted last nigth I was at my friend place whom is the owner of the Etna SL that I tested against the ADC 26/27.
We were there around 4+ hours and I brougth with me some of the same LPs we listened at my home.
First we listened his Ortofon Anna and the Etna SL in the top Thalea tonearm both great performers.
After that was the ADC 26/27 time and at the first evaluation LP track we confirmed ( we were not surprised for. ) what we listened at my home: the ADC 26/27 so high quality performance levels that depending of the room/system there are characteristics that are better than those top tier LOMC cartridges but exist one characteristics where the ADC is superior to these cartridges and the other LOMC I reported here and obviously better that any vintage/today well regarded MM/MI ones and that characteristic is its amazing: RHYTHM, we just dont's come back to listen to other top quality performer and when you return to it you fell that something is missed.
With out doubt these ADC 26/27 samples I own are the best and for a huge range/margin discovery/up date I experienced in all my audio life just: astonishing ! ! !
The " motor " of the 26/27 is something really special that Pritchard other designs does not outperformed in any way.
At least one of my four stylus/cantilever in the future I will send to change it for a way better boron cantilever and a way better stylus ti´shape. I have no doubt that that will be a great improvement to an already great cartridge and deserves that kind of up-grade.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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I owned and comparing with P.P. ones this systems: AT ML150, Grace F9L, Shure VST-V, Nagaoka MP200, Goldring 2500, Goldring 1042. Goldring 900 -920IGC,
Grado Reference Platinum
,
Elac 796 HSP Jubilee,
AT20SLa/SS20,
AT 7 V,
Acutex 412/415/420 STR,
Acutex 312III/315III/320III STR,
Digitrac 300SE,
Ortofon Super OM40,
Shure SC39ED,
Empire 500ID
from P.Pritchard I own every cart, starting with ADC1 up to the last XLM MKIV "private" from 1986.
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Dear @luckyx02: Those Goldring 900 series, the Elac, AT 20SS and especially the Acutex 320 are very good performers and the humble empire 500ID too but needs a lot of hours to settle down as the Empire 1080 and I don't have the patience with this one.
R. |
...only if your rubber bearings are hard as a rock....
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Dear @luckyx02: Maybe was my 1080 sample but other gentleman I know was unsatisfied with: @downunder .
Problem today with that Empire is that I already own several other cartridges that as the 26/27 I just never listened even that I own it from many years now.
Btw, I'm sticky with my ADC 26.
R. |
Dear friends: After talked with the designer of my ADS I decided to take his several advises and to make those up-dates I unfortunatelly need money and even help about.
Contrary to my desire I will put on sale one of my beloved ADC 26 with the guarantee of its mint operation condition and extraordinary quality level performance and before I put on an official auction here and everywhere if any one of you is interested to enjoy this kind of quality level just can email me here: rauliruegas@hotmail.com
R. |
Dear friends: Last week end the ADC 26/27 was tested vs the Ortofon Anna in my system ( Saturday ) and my friend and Anna owner the Sunday.
The results were similar as with the other today LOMC top contenders: nothing for what the ADC could " feel " something as "shame ".
R. |
Hello Raul,
I haven't read the whole thread but that won't matter. I do agree that the ADC26 is a very good cartridge and I just compared it with my Sonus Gold-Blue and the differences are tiny! The Sonus is in a Sonus Formula IV unipivotarm and the ADC 26 is on a TP13 arm, both on a Thorens TD150 turntable. Both cartridges are designed by Peter Pritchard and so is the Sonus Arm. I expected a better result from the Sonus cartridge but the differences are tiny. The 26 soun ds a little more natural and the Sonus has a little more detail and soundstage, but that's it!
When I change to my Van Den Hul MC10 afterwards I really have to say that it's all coming into another dimension: much more detail and soundstage and the 'swing'-factor is a lot higher. Listening to the first Rickie Lee Jones for comparison this cartridge is a real standard that leaves a lot of cartridges behind it. You really should give that a try together with the Cinemag 3440A stepup transformers set to 600 Ohm. Enjoy it because life is to short already!!
Regards Rob |
I have a Sonus Gold Blue still in the case I purchased a little while ago. Looks brand new. I may have to give it a try |
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Dear Raul,
I agree with you and Lucky.
The ADC 25/26 is a outstanding performer.
I use it on a Luxman PD-131 with ADC LMA-2 tonearm.
It is a really good match.
tried it with different tonearms but the Formula ADC or mayware tonearm is not the right match.
think the Adc needs a rigid but very light tonearm.
I drive it with 0,8 grams
But I am conform with everything you wrote.
Even an Grace F-9 with F-14 MicroRidge stylus (much better than any F-9 original stylus) sounds different but not better.
Perhaps it is a little more detailed, but not better. If, only a bit different.
But in my opinion you need a realy light tonearm.
All the best and greetings to Lucky Lutz. |
Perhaps the f-14 stylus sound better to some people, but if it get to to the body of voices and musical sound of instruments it is getting very close.
I don´t want to judge what is better.
But without any question the ADC has the more bodied sound, which doesn´t sound wrong.
The ADC is an GREAT PERFORMER!!! |
Even an Grace F-9 with F-14 MicroRidge stylus (much better than any F-9 original stylus) sounds different but not better. Because the F-9 signal generator is an old generation of Grace compared to the the High-End F-12 and F-14, you have to use your RS14 stylus on F-14 LC-OFC generator if you really want to hear the best from Grace. Those are designed in the late 80’s. The styli for F14 and LEVEL II are different LineContact type and MicroRidge and cantilevers are also can be Sapphire, Beryllium, Boron, Ruby. Grace LEVEL-II LC-OFC is also superior to any other Grace models, as a final attention to detail, even the output terminals are constructed of LC OFC copper. This meticulous care and attention given to every minute detail in both the vibration and generator systems has resulted a significant improvement in the performance and sound quality. In other words the Grace F14 and LEVEL II are luxury models. But I can’t see anything special in the specs for ADC-26 IM cartridge: Output: 4mv at 55 cms/sec recorded velocity Tracking force: 0.7g Frequency response: 10Hz to 24kHz +- 2dB Stylus: Elliptical contact 0.3 x 0.7 Cantilever: Aluminum
Channel Separation: 30db Compliance: 50cu
What i can see in the original ADC-26 manual is the $20 price for the stylus exchange. This ADC was designed and made in the 60’s. The cartridge was relatively cheap and it looks like very cheap cartridge with mediorce specs and material used (cantilever, stylus tip, cartridge body). Here is some info from the Japanese source. |
Dear @peetrob : Godd that you like the ADC26. I own your Sonun cartridge model and the top Sonus one, very good performers too.
Your system including the tonearm is different that mine and all what you can read in my review reffered to the ADC26 with 27 nude same shape stylus but even the ADC26 ( stock stylus. ) outperforms with extremely easy facility to its Sonus brothers and to that VDH cartridge.
Please try to read again the review. Anyway, I did it because for me the ADC26/27 is just unbeatable my any other vintage today MM/MI cartridge and as I said in the review is the only very humble ( true humble. ) vintage cartridge that can " talks " with the Etna or Colibri " face to face " with out nothing to " feels " on shame.
Great challenge for every one cartridge.
R. |
Dear @adc-grace2 : Obviously that I agree with you on the ADC 26/27 cartridge that again as you posted: GREAT PERFORMER, no matters what.
As yours and other gentlemans the @luckyx02 are great contributions with first hand experiences/information that enhance the vision that other audiophiles can have on this cartridge review/thread.
Thank's for that, the ADC is really in a major league and is unfortunated tha Pritchard pass away.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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Not bad for $100 cartridge |
@chakster I know the LevelII and the f-14 but they are not easy to get in Europe.
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@adc-grace welcome on board
Looking at your nickname i thought you’re specializing in Grace and ADC :) You’re right, the F14 and LEVEL II are the rarest Grace MM cartridges. The Asakura’s ONE is the rarest Grace LOMC (amazing cartridge).
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The mass of moving parts is obviously important because all cart producers try to reduce this mass .Lighter cantilever, micro ridge styli and low uitput coils with as little wire as possible are examples. This is actually the reason for the preference for low- output MC cartridges. However MI cartridges have the lowest moving mass of all cart kinds. One need only to look at B&O and ADC carts to see this with his own eye. No measurement of any kind I needed. So it is not wonder that Raul next to ADC 25 kinds also praise B&O kinds. I would add the Austrian AKG kinds which were excellent, but alas, used the wrong material for the suspension and needed to close cart production to avoid liability. So the question moved to the ''motor'' , whatever this may mean, instead to clear the issue of mass. I know that holistic conception of carts is importnat but there are those ''damned details '' about parts in each holistic approach.
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