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Acoustic Signature turntables

I do not see a lot written about these turntables by end users. Can anyone share experiences or opinions on reliability, use, and design considerations?

Some of my observations or questions (keep in mind these are naive as I have never heard these models and I may be wrong about assumptions made).

1. Why the multiple motors? This is the one I struggle in understanding. Is the AVC (motor vibration reduction) that they provide somehow enhanced when working across more than one motor? How is this different than other motor vibration reduction methods such as the Rega method? Whether additional noise or reduced drive capability, who knows (?). How long to get up to speed?

2. Standard bearing vs inverted vs magnetic. I suppose there will never be consensus but noticed AS steadfastly implements standard bearings that focus on the materials used.

3. Platter dampening. Their method seems to work well. However, I noticed comments about earlier models being overly damped. The dampening increases up the product line.

4. Very heavy platters compared to some competition. Even the lower models have very heavy platters so they seem to think this is important.

5. Subplatter vs no subplatter. AS seems to have moved to subplatter design for models that can take multiple arms. Did they always think this method was superior?

6. Tonearms. Not much out there about the tonearms. Seems once again standard design but focus on materials…carbon fiber and bearings.

7. Back to motors. AS uses AC motors. Kuzma insists on DC. I guess I can try to read up on the differences and why manufacturers prefer different types. Any thoughts here? I am probably not be smart enough to understand the finer points about turntable motors (lol).

8.  Warranty.  AS seems to offer the longest warranty.  As with other warranties, what good is it if no design specs and performance tolerances are published?  Seems few turntable manufacturers publish relevant specs these days.  On one hand, I understand why in dealing with picky audiophiles and on the other hand, unfortunate.

Would appreciate additional thoughts. Thanks!

 

plinko
plinko OP
256 posts
 

@mijostyn , thanks for your comments

Multiple motors are indeed a major concern with the AS tables although possibly better for bearing life as the pull on the bearing is minimized.

For magnetic bearings, do they have any possibility of changing over time? I do not want to be in a situation in the future of managing the height of the motor spindle to a bearing/subplatter/platter that has changed in height. I also do not like the idea of managing air bearings over time.

I thought the main reason for a heavy platter was inertia and would also be the same reason to take longer to get up to speed. My concerns here about high mass tables are about overdamping and a less than exciting sound. The two AS tables took about 35 seconds to get up to speed. Kuzma says 2 seconds for the Stabi R. I would guess torque is a factor and higher in the Kuzma tables (?).

I eliminated suspension for the typical reasons…the movement/swaying and changes in position over time and/or realignments needed. SOTA was eliminated because I cannot see one in person…no dealers in all of New England, sadly. That is an absolute must…I have to see some examples from the brand in person. Clearaudio was eliminated because concern about magnetic bearing and stability. TechDas seems to have been eliminated as perhaps out of my price range, air bearings, and other factors. I may be completely wrong in this way of thinking and not saying these tables are flawed in any way.  I don’t know and part of the real why I started this thread.

In my case, I wouldn’t call this a macho, male thing but would admit there is a pride of ownership or objet d’art aspect to this. Although many people wouldn’t find anything artistic about these devices…

Btw, I also eliminated non suspended tables that do not have the motor, bearing/platter, and arm on the same plane or, at least I think I have. ;-)

 

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,052 posts
 

Dear @mijostyn ​@plinko  : I agree that we can't overdap the TT and even if we could that's a good notice.

 

In the otherside AS TTdoes not needs multiple motors, more than one is only an alternative for the owners. It's really need it more than one? certainly not. I used mines with one motor with out any single issue and this I do for several years. Even that I made tests time to time with a second motor playing and in no time my way of thinking about changed.

 

About motor torque per sé means nothing because all is relative to the overall TT design. The AS is low torque because has a heavy platter that under playing only needs little help to spin due to its very good inertia. Overall design defines TT characteristics.

When using my units I give it a little help with my hand just to start and spinn at 33rpm in no more than 10seconds. Not big deal..

 

R.

aoliviero
269 posts
 

AS turntables are great!  I used to have the Mambo and still regard it as one of the best turntables I own.  I regret selling it.  Stick with AC driven platters.

 

williambf
17 posts
 

Rumor has it the Levinson 5105 TT/Arm is an Acoustic Signature manufactured in Germany system.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 

@plinko , The magnetic bearings I am familiar with are very stiff. If you push down on the platter there is no noticeable give. In the case of the Sota what you have are opposing neodymium ring magnets, one on the sub chassis  surrounding the spindle and the other on the mating end of the bearing which is machined into the platter. With the platter installed there might be a 1/64th" space between the two which is the equilibrium point between the magnetic field strength and the weight of the platter. Pushing down on the platter raises the intensity of the field dramatically. It is virtually impossible to make the magnets touch. The magnets will last a whole lot longer than you. The bearing would probably wear out first.

Heavier platters do have more inertia and that is a good thing up to a point then it is all about male testosterone levels. There are plenty of turntables with less massive platters that have SOTA wow and flutter specs. There is more pitch variation generated by irregularities of the record than there is speed irregularities of the turntable like warps and off center spindle holes.

Clear audio's bearing is fine with it's more expensive models.

There is more pride in knowing that your turntable produces the best performance by virtue of it's design. Watch this video all the way through. It will teach you a lot about turntables in general. 

 

If you have a Kuzma dealer near by look at the Ref 2. Good table for the money. I think the Stabi M is his best turntable. SME makes fine turntables as does Basis but of all of then the Sota is handily the best value. For $10K you can have a great suspension, vacuum clamping and a state of the art drive system. Only Basis makes a similar turntable at this moment and it costs 3 times as much.

 

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