Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Gear, I have your email addy, so I can send you some pictures of the Zurich room with Isis to get an idea. I can also send pictures of the Fischer& Fisscher Granite sopeaker and the Rowen with the LMT tweeter. Matt, sorry buddy, but you didnt send you contact details and you cant post any pix here. IF AGear has it he can Fwd. |
T&F certainly has made even more pro measuremnts and put in on their website. I am sure all these speakers roll in the 20s but the SPL trails off dramatically, and hence the -6db at 40hz! I have heard the RA, Pkharoah and Isis at shows and can tell you the bass otput of the Ra is really full range and clobbers the others. Got my email yet? |
Matt, 2 more names for you... Backes & Muller (german) and Ypsilon Phaeton (greek and superb sounding). Ypsilon here: http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/highendsuisse2014/1.html and the money shot on the ISIS room in Zurich here: http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/highendsuisse2014/2.html Unkind writeup from Srajan here (about the looks): Playing to the dichotomy of fugly but great sound, Audio Sphere's Enzo Nolli, Swiss importer for Jeff Rowland, had set up a vinyl-fronted rig ending in Trenner & Friedl's Isis. Except for lacking handles and hinges to open in the front, those struck Ivette and I as two fat refrigerators which the Austrian makers clearly expect will set up shop in domestic living rooms. Oy. Whilst dimensioned according to golden ratio proportions from multiplex Birch Ply, these 120 x 50 x 35cm 3-way sarcophagi with horn-loaded compression tweeter would never be allowed in our digs. Which actually is too bad. This room made our second-favorite sound. To produce this type of sock'em slam and density absolutely requires a big woofer. At 15 inches per side, the Isis complied. "Raise the Pharaoh" in a nod to The Mummy would be a suitable alternate to the old "Rock the Casbah" motto. |
Gear, these are the ones I would love for Matt to hear and report back on. Useful refernce point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eU4sEIpj5M The Prologos Mk2 wireless, not the Prologos+ mk2. The "normal" prologos is their most dynamic speaker and is capable of max spl of 120db. It has 2 Telos amps and Alize Dacs built into each box, and Proteus/Leonardo (DSP/DRC)software implemented. |
The new ProLogos Mk2 Wireless has redesigned software and is supposed to be a real stepup up from Mk1(now obsolete) but costs a cool $15K more. Indeed, they dont say Mk2, as its the only one now available. Yes, each box includes the same drivers found in the $600K Apologues and has 2 Telos amps built in and Alize Dacs with wireless receivers: The blurb... "The Goldmund ProLogos is the most dynamic speaker ever produced by Goldmund, with a stereo capability of more than 120dB / 1M, coming from a diminutive box of half a meter high." "The Goldmund ProLogos active version uses two Telos Amplifiers of a newest design in each speaker, with a very high power transformer. It provides the highest Acoustical Grounding ratio ever achieved in any Goldmund product, which guarantees extreme control of the drivers by the electronics at high playback level. The Goldmund ProLogos active version incorporates a complete correction of amplitude, phase and time with its new Leonardo2 DSP program. It is ultra-compact (500x288x392mm) and fully built in metal." Goldmund speakers are designed entirely in the software domain with the outstanding Proteus sotware, which is also capable of DRC without the use of microphones. Proteus can accept input of up to 44,000 parameters. The only thing to really cause a gulp, apart from the retail price is how these small Monitors can cause such thunderous/explosive high quality sound (SPL max of 120db). |
Jh901, Essentially correct. The Goldmund speakers are all in one systems and can be driven just by a computerr with the transmitting dongle. The speakers have Telos amps, Dacs and wireless receivers built in and are already DSP matched between amps and speakers and uses active digital crossovers for perfect synergy. Speakers are completely designed via computers based on an Advanced modelling software called Proteus that is constantly being upgraded. Goldmund uses no human intervention is speaker design, its all computer modelled to exacting standards and they can predict the outcome perfectly. You can also step up with a Goldmund digital Preamp, now called a "hub" and this can have DRC corrections built in and also works wired or wireless to the speakers. Apparently, wireless sounds BETTER! Only wires needed are the electric plugs to power each speaker and that can be hidden in the flooring/under carpets, etc. Downside is that they are pricey, and the Metis Tower wireless costs $18K and have 5inch woofers. The 120db (SPL) Prologos is $70K! Others doing similar stuff are the Kii Audio, Kii 3 from Bruno Putzey of Mola-Mola/N-Core/Grimm fame.€10K a pair. DSP up the wazoo and claimed bass response of 18hz! You also have the Devialet Phantom (much lower end offering) the white and the silver for about $3-4.5K a pair. These are shaped like orbs. Not sure if the Linn Exakt speaker systems are fully equivalent to these. No doubt the future is here, and a pal of mine sold everything save his "first born" to finance a pair of Prologos wireless and says he is DONE after 45 years of search. Selling/sold his vinyl and R2R collection!!!! |
They are showing Perfect Storm (White ones, I think) with the BALANCED Lampi GG Dac and the Balanced 211 Lampi Monobloc amps. Antipodes Server and VeraStarcables. Rm 22024 and room treatment by Resolution Acoustics. Ryan of vapor said that these Perfect Storm speakers are the finest speakers he has ever heard, and he admits to blowing his own trumpet, but says he does not care… EDIT…Bruce Brown of Puget Sounds will also have a balanced GG in Room 8000. He will be using Abyss HPhones driven by Cavalli Gold headamp. |
Updated info on the Kii room from A-Shark. It was hated at first… Why it's important to come back to rooms multiple times. The Kii folks removed a CD transport and DAC and went right from the laptop to the Kii speakers and the difference was not subtle. Sitting listening to Ella Fitzgerald. Her voice is sweet and the stand-up bass is realistic. Cymbals sound real. And I might add...no use of room treatments either to get this great sound. The Kii also has adjustability for location in the room. The wonders of digital tech. We couldn't have done this as well in the analog domain. ======================== In this instance, I suspect that part of the improvement could have been due to the fact that, when they stopped using the CDP + DAC source, the additional DA + AD stages were eliminated too since all analog inputs are digitised. Afaik, the Kii Three does not have the WISA input enabled yet since the WISA controller is not due till next year. |
Matt, you were asking about Servers a couple pages back. here is my 2 cents: I have tasted the audio elixir of the gods. PC server with win12 AudioOptimizer in core mode, using JRiver to upconvert PCM/DSD to DSD256 feeding properly setup Bughead Emperor as the playback engine....WOW. Reel to reel quality. Spinners begone! Bughead is magic. I heard this when I was in Warsaw for the audio show there (156 rooms, 11,000 visitors). it was at the lampi factory with his server and a Golden Gate Dac, but it does not have to be his Server, as any quality CAPs build will do, or the soon to be released bespoke Sound Galleries Server. the trick is how to optimize and feed Bughead, which is a shareware application. You can build your own CAPs for about $4K or get an aftermarket one for $6K+. |
Servers? Check this out: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/sound-galleries-music-server-25805/ more here: |
Matt, I will keep you posted on the Sound Galleries server and if you are real serious, I will try to arrange a demo unit for you. They are great pals of mine and they keep me up to date on the happenings regularly. You know how to reach me if you need any other info that I can help with. I will be in the US for 2 weeks over the Xmas break. Not sure if I make it to your neck of the woods this trip though... |
BTW guys...i got my GG back a few months ago after a total refresh...usb superclocks. Firmware update to the R2R ladder, DSD512 engine and a few internal tweaks. OMG...talk about order being restored...the Atlantic was nipping at its heels and now there is clear, wide, deep, blue sea separation. The BASS...dayum! So much improved. My speakers only go to 40hz...but now the bass is coming thru the floor thru the sofa and up my spine. Feels like 27hz! I have an assortment of DHT tubes and rectis to choose frim to tailor my sound. Love that. My pals in Leichtenstein got a Golden Atlantic abd they say it clobbers the basic Atlantic. Lampi, Ayre, Chord and YES MSB have all have home runs out there. Just need to pick your poison. |
CStooner, i hope you had a great time at SunCoast! Are you in the pictures Mike posted? Matt, to avoid OCD, maybe you would want to check out the Lampi Golden Atlantic instead? Only the recti can be rolled and well, the Kron 5u4g and the EML 274B are the best normal tubes and the Tak 274b or WE vintage 274b are he absolute champs but like $1K each. The GA also is a smaller form factor. |
Yes Matt, Ethernet is also packetized data. Why not try a Laufertecnik Memory Player? It has a LOT of software innovations and the newly released MP MINI is only $3500 with 2TB of defractionalized SSD memory. The big brothers with built in dacs are over $20K. I will reach out to the Lampi guys and see if they cant get you a demo GA after Axpona. the Pentodes are not swappable, so little chance of OCD for you. LoL |
Dragon Vibe, not discounting your personal opinion (I know that some house wiring can cause problems with some gear that work superbly in other places), you must certainly understand that others hold very different opinions. At the recent Axpona show, 3 rooms had Lampis and all were well received! Copied from ACircle.. Maurice Jefferies from Postive feedback: Our flagship Golden Gate DAC was featured in the VSA room, featuring there new flagship speakers. This drool-inducing set-up challenged one's expectations of what an ultra-high end system can do, and what such performance costs. At 900+ lbs. per side and over seven feet tall, the VSA ULTRA 11 speakers ($295K/pair in your choice of automotive paint finishes) towered above everyone and everything. They reproduced bass instruments with concert level impact below 20Hz (this was bass you heard and felt). Highs soared to infinity yet never shouted. Grain was utterly absent from the proceedings. Steve Rochlin from Enjoy the Music: In the same room with our Golden Gate Stever said "Getting my personal award for being Best Sound At AXPONA 2017 is the VAC / Von Schweikert room featuring their ULTRA 11 large floorstanders " Greg Weaver from Postive Feedback had alot to say about this same room as well. To summarize it he wrote > All these extraordinary attributes combine to present an unsurpassed degree of soundstaging; layering, image specificity, size, and shape. The overall spatial presentation, hall dimensionality, instrumental placement and interrelationships, the space between and around those remarkably defined voices, and reverberant cues, set a new benchmark of performance. Jana Dagdagan From Stereophile: I love tubes and horns. So naturally, when Jason and I were dividing up rooms, I leapt at the opportunity to cover Destination Audio, a company rumored to execute tubes and horns well, even in small hotel rooms. Our Flagship Golden Gate DAC was also the source in the Destination Sound soom. Along with the speakers, the system contained two Destination tube preamplifiers ($16,000/pair) and two Destination tube mono power amplifiers ($24,000/pair). We listened to the Kings Singers' "The Boxer," and I marveled at the depth of the soundstage and how, through such towering speakers, this beautiful male a cappella ensemble filled but did not overpower the limited-size room. Afterwards, we listened to "Ode to Billy Joe" by Patricia Barber, and the amount of detail and variation in each "snap" left me wanting more. As I'm listening, Greg Roberts of Volti Audio—another maker of horn speakers I deeply adore—happens to sit next to me. It's a beautiful thing when you see a show exhibitor take a break to sit down and enjoy another designer's offerings. As I dragged myself away in hopes of staying on schedule, I thought to myself, "what an exceptional way to start the final day of Axpona." ============================================ Besides awarding us for the best room at the show. Peter from AVS showrooms had this to say about the sound from our Golden Gate DAC through the epic VSA ULTRA 11s > Words cannot express what I felt when listening to Roger Waters “Amused to Death” on this system with the ULTRA 11 Von Schweikert loudspeakers. It is the best of show. It is the best of any room at any show I’ve ever attended and I have been in thousands of exhibit rooms over the years. The experience was otherworldly. The sound was big and detailed – organic; the room had a heartbeat except there was no room, everything disappeared, like having the best seat in the house at a venue with excellent acoustics. I’m usually not a big fan of large loudspeakers at shows because they are very hard to set-up properly in a less than adequate environment with little time to get things right, but this was an achievement of the first order. ============================================== Hell yeah! I 'experienced' Amused to Death in the room and it's gonna stay with me forever! Congrats to you guys for such a phenomenal setup! |
For SunandMusic...here is (UK) Bonzo's take on the Aries Cerat. Note Bonzo is a Lampi GG owner and loves the sound. Comparison was done in Brussels. http://zero-distortion.org/aries-cerat-lampi-ar-5se-analysis-omega-rockports/ For Matt, mad respect for this thread. When it started, it could have been a train wreck, but your personality and steady hand has guided this deftly to be a MAJOR resource for people researching Dacs and things Digital/speakers. BTW, the congrats go to the Lampi team. Nothing to do with me. I just cut and paste. No secret I like the Lampi sound, as it agrees with my sonic taste. I dont like dry and for my demo with the Yggy, I found it dry. Not a big fan of most SS Dacs. LoL |
Dragon_Vibe, I didnt say anything was WRONG with your wiring, I simply meant it may not work well as setup with the Lampi for some reason, or it could be the interaction with the other tube gear in terms of grounding. I guess the way the Lampi is designed it has its own peculiarities. It clearly work well in the VAST majority of cases, given that over a thousand of them are in the field and clealy work well at shows. A buddy of mine has 2 of them and he is owns an electrical installation company, and so he certifies his own house wiring and has ZERO noise, even with his HeadDac...ie Dac and HP amp in one. To be clear, I am fine if the GG didnt work for you and is not to your taste. Happy that you like the PBD...your enjoyment with your gear is all that matters, just it does for me, Matt, Cstooner and all the rest. I am only giving my opinion, just like you and have no skin in the game. I dont apologise for standing up for what I hear and like though...but it is just one data point in the grand scheme of things. For an all in one product, for $14K, Dartzeel makes the Danalog, ie LHC-208, which is an Ethernet streaming Dac and 200wpc classA/B Integrated amp. PCM to 384khz and DSD128. Now that is what I call a Digital Hub! |
The Mini is a lot cheaper!!! Dragon...I do use a SS Integrated amp. It's a NAD 375BEE modded with negative output impedence by www.rowen.ch. This is to compensate for speaker line losses and to ensure stability at peak power demand times. My speakers are Heil AMT. Currently I have the Kitara running with the Syrinx. All Heils run perfectly in Phase, so they can run together. As the amp can handle bursts of up to 750wpc into 1 ohm, its a piece of cake to run these speakers in parallel. Matt suggeted that these speakers may have a special synergy with Lampi Dacs and he may be right, though I think its more with the amp, to be honest. The amp also grips the woofers well and keeps themas tight as possible. Speakers can be seen at www.precide.ch |
Ksattic, you have to read everything. Not only was the Dave mention, the OP had one and it broke. He said so a few posts above. Almost all the mid to top Dacs have FPGAs, though they use them differently. Chords proprietary tech is NOT the FPGA, but their firmware, ie the WTA filter and the Pulse array Dac, all executed on the blank canvas FPGA. Though I like the Dave, its not the absolute sound winner you make it out to be. Many people prefer other Dacs, including the YGGY which costs a lot less. I myself prefer a tube Dac and own a Lampi (no Dac chips at all, R2R ladder and chipless DSD), though I also own a Qute EX too. |
They are the only ones doing it THEIR way and it is very good, but not everyone's favourite. It is MUCH better than the much hyped Hugo which to me was not great at all. DAVE is a much more elaborate implementation of the same Tech than Hugo was...but there are many ways to skin a cat and many roads lead to Rome. The trick is to find which part of ROME you want to hang out in! LoL |
One small point that makes me know taste matters. Rob does not think DSD can sound good, much less spectacular. I can assure everyone that the "Chipless" DSD engine in my GG DAC (99% of the time) can make a believer out of the biggest anti-DSD campaigners out there. (There is always that 1% that will deny reality. LoL) I love great music in whatever format and rule out none a priori. |
Dragon...I am in Switzerland. I know all about Andreas who is a Swiss living in Cali. He is a DSD godfather. I dont know him personally, though I have met many of the people behind the famous Swiss Brands like Dartzeel, CH Precision, Audio Consulting, LumenWhite, SoundKaos, Colotube, FM Acoustics, Heil AMT, Goldmund, Piega, Weiss, Merging, Illusonic, Manufacture Le Son,Rowen and Stenheim. No contact wth Boenicke, Studer/Revox, Soulution, SwissSonor, etc. I also know that MERLOT IS PROBABLY BETTER DSD THAN THE PBD MPD-5, etc. Since Lampi DSD, many have stepped up their games. Its all good for the consumer. DSD is best with the least amount of processing possible applied. One last point, Lampi is not just a tube buffer stage stuck onto a Digital section, the Tube stage is intergral. Part filter and part amplifying. The beauty is the minimalistic signal path this approach entails. So minimalistic that if you pull out just a single component the circuit collapses. Its one road leading to Rome. |
There will be a big Lampi Product launch(es) in Suncoast Audio- Sarasota, Fl on Sat Oct14. The New Lampi Pacific Dac with Active Triode loading, completely redesigned power supply system with 4 tubes supporting them, and completely overspecified power. Physically, I hear the Dac will be double the GG size and will be waaay more dynamic (if you can imagine that). Best guess for the price for the SE basic version is about $22K. In addition, the recently released Lampi SuperKomputer2 will be feeding the beast. It too has completely redesigned power (took a year to complete, I am told) and no parts are commercially available, all proprietary. Fanless, with ultra-light Lampi mobo embedded Linux and roon supplied engine. I suspect US price will be circa $8.5K, given confirmed EU price of €7K pre-VAT. Audiophile Bill in the UK is testing it now and is in love. He told me he will buy it for sure. Wish I had the spare moolah, as he had me salivating... |
BTW, Cstooner, I will make it to Sarasota, so if you can make it, it will be my great pleasure to meet you in person. I am taking advantage of the fact that I will be in Philly for the first 2 weeks of Oct with my family and will pop down to Fla for the weekend to visit a friend who recently moved there from Switzerland. It should be big fun, and I will finally get to meet Mike, Rob and Gopher at last. There will be other famous forumites there too. Lukasz will be there too, of course. |
Yes, he is! A pal of mine met him for drinks offsite at the last RMAF. Mark is not "people friendly"...Genius always has a flaw somewhere. LoL Before Sam Laufer bought it out, it was called the Nova Physics Memory Player. I was told about him and his genius by a genius audio designer that I know very well. Glad you finally looked into it. I know I have your email addy, but cant recall if I have your number. I will look see and give you a quick buzz if I find it. |
Matt, it only took you 2+ years with some reminders along the way. LoL: 667 posts02-09-2015 2:28pm
AND wisnon
667 posts Matt, Cstooner have you guys tried the very affordably priced MemoryPlayer Mini...2500 to 3500 dollars? AND wisnon
667 posts 05-10-2017 1:27pm Also for Matt: Check it out. and 667 posts Matt, |
rogoz-audio.com/ is the link |
Still dont have any Dac envy at all, with my current updated Lampi GG 1 with superclocked USB and separate discrete Ladder PCM and DSD256 attached AND separate chipless DSD512 engine. 2 Jacks in 1 box, so to speak! I have a host of 13 rectifiers (most vinatge and bought for like $10 a piece) and 10 pairs of DHT output tubes including some exotics like the EML anniv mesh 45 globe and the vaunted Kron 242. I cant tailor the sound to any genre and can look forward to "upgrades" when trying exciting new tube combos. Fun with extreme SQ. I will couple that 50% of the equation with optimal transport, ie my DIY linear power supplied i7 server that is audio optimzed Winserver2016 with the current champion combo of Roon/HQP or the FULL Lauferteknik software bundle on their turnkey SLC NAND SSD solution. optimized BIOS, OS with revised byte structure, Full IDEAS suite, Stealth Mode Win10 OS, DeFractionalized storage, clock mapper for extreme jitter reduction, and a host of other useful app...mated to a matched JRiver 23 structure. The Win2016 is already superb and I expect some step up with the MPlayer environment. I will use the Win2016 setup for upsampling and the JRiver MP setup for native rate. Dual boot OS on separate SSDs and separated 5v LPSUs. Should be a Transport setup worthy of the stellar GG. |
Stooner, the MemPlayer guys will soon offer a turnkey solution for the full suite of software that you can use on your existing PC server. I can tell you is a killer. Not chickenfeed but FAAARRR less expensive than buying the Mem Player 64 hardware solution. They will also offer a USB stick solution for slotting ability that can be used to put your existing JRiver implementation on STEROIDS! It will be VERY attractively priced. The MemPlayer goodies are being democatized. High SQ for every budget. |
