Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Charles, not at all. I was being tongue in cheek....

All these high tech, engineering companies are hawking their lifestyle products. That's fine. Yawn. Matt, go hear this stuff and put us out of our misery....

Charles, I always open to hearing them for entertainment value. My central point, based on experience, is that it takes considerable effort to extract "analog" sound from the digital domain, with proper mechanical grounding (Sistrum), power conditioning, electrical grounding, etc. If Goldmund can squeeze in a Golden Gate dac, Tripoint Troy, power conditioning, and one of Steve Nuggets reclockers into its speaker, I will consider it. I was an early adopter to the wireless realm (2002), and while I love elements of it, it has a lot of weaknesses. In the context of lifestyle audio engineering, by all means. If SOTA sound is what you are after, not.

Steve Nugent, you have gone quiet? I would love to hear your take on this subject.

Sorry Norman. Goldmund has done some shows with their new hustle and people have not staggered out of the room as if they had been in the presence of God. Guys in Asia who can own anything don't go for Goldmund. Its a lifestyle product for lazy, rich guys who are not climbing the mountain and would rather be spoon fed. That's fine. Different strokes for different folks. As Matt has hopefully realized, the room is 70-80% of the equation despite what the Kii cooperative says....:). Hand wringing about the latest techno-exotica is simply brownian motion as we will soon find out.

From an evolutionary standpoint, the Devaliet Orbs are interesting and actually a novel design...but again, a Sonos on steroids. They would make for a fun 5C HT system!

Matt, I look forward to your impressions of the Ultimates and eventually the Isis.

08-27-15: Charles1dad
Andrew,
If by Asian you're referencing the Audio Exotic crowd, I find them a good barometer for the "really good stuff". I don't believe the Goldmund is argeted towards their taste. I'm certain they'd reject it on being "clinical" and lacking emotion, given what they are usually drawn to.

bingo Charles. Yes, Goldmund moves a lot of boxes to wealthy lifestyle guys in Aisia, but for the folks at AE who are climbing the mountain, nope.

If Matt (or Norman) buys Goldmund and owns it for 5 years or more, I will consider it. :)

Matt, post some pics of your new speakers when you get them.

Charles, the AE crew are off the chain in their OCD pursuits. Most of us just don't inhabit that atmosphere. I tip my hat to them.

I too am intrigued to see where Matt ends up. I think he has two very good options on the docket. Organic sound with real life dynamics and speed is the holy grail. Too often you have either one or the other.

Winner winner chicken dinner

flip up some pics on your system page for the sake of us voyeurs....

Matt, speakers look great. You are almost there it seems....

In 2009, Stereophile thought the driver config produced a "balcony" perspective: http://www.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/dynaudios_consequence/index.html#FpzIbYFhsM4uLmtQ.97

The real question for Matt is given the low frequency extension and size of the speaker and the size of his room, how will the bass energy manifest? The full wavelength of 20Hz, for example, is 56.5 ft.

09-02-15: Mattnshilp

The low frequency extension is taught and limitless. Like nothing I have ever heard.

You mean like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-yim9q3_oI

I figured that was your sonic frame of reference as a former car audio guy (+/- the NJ effect). If that's what you are working with now, you are a baller indeed....we bow down....

Norman, I assume Bill from GTT is the distro for Kii....

Isis ETA?

Wow, that's a slow boat....

09-13-15: Mattnshilp

The Consequence Ultimate are pushing many of my buttons. They have a bit of a shout to them, which they did not have at all either time I heard them in the store. So I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm adjusting treatments and moving the speakers about to adjust them.

The Isis will be here Wednesday. I'll keep everyone posted.

That sounds like trouble. Isis to the rescue....

09-13-15: Audiolabyrinth
Matt,that isis speaker has decent specs,however, why would you buy foreign speakers, the jbl dd-67000 everest speakers are horn loaded like the ones your looking at,give them an audition.

He should buy whatever sounds like music. Specs be damned. Some speakers I have heard measure ruler flat but sound like death....

09-13-15: Bill_k
It is said that many listeners think they want a system with flat frequency response, until they hear one! My experience agrees with Agear's.

Yessir. I have fiddled with room correction software in the past to create a ruler flat response, and the result is the same.

09-14-15: Abedirov
Matt, are you planning to audition Lampizator Golden Gate? I am asking as I plan to upgrade my Lampi L4 and GG is one of my top choices.

I have a Lampizator GG and love it.

09-14-15: Abedirov
Matt, it is strange that Lampi people are not willing to give you GG to try given the vast popularity of your thread. I look forward to your impressions of the Lite 7, but I do not think it can compete with the other great DACs you've tried.

From what I understand, Lucas is heavily backordered on GGs and 211 amps. Have you heard the L7?

09-16-15: Cusco69
Hi All,
I'm getting a little disillusioned here, thought I was reading the wrong thread.
Was it not about the best dac for redbook?
Sorry guys for pouring cold water
Raymond

Raymond, when Matt goes off his meds, his mentation tends to wander....

The Everest speakers are huge. Yeow.

Matt, Isis set up?

Who cares about JBL....

Isis set up?

I do agree with Paul that your source needs to be upgraded given the caliber of your system, but its not the source of the current problem. Guido's suggestion is a good one: put a dense piece of carpeting at the first reflection point on the floor. I am not sure that's the fix either, but time will tell...

Another potential issue is the the Esotar tweeter is notorious for being uber revealing and pointy under the wrong conditions....

The Tenor's are pretty see through so I would be surprised if this was a source issue. Furthermore, Steve Nugent uses a modded mini and am swears by it. His dac has a built reclocket so that is another ripple...

Isis report?

To be honest, that sounds like my cup of tea. I have a lot of bank friends in Charlotte who like big dollar Cabs from Cali that kick you in the balls. I prefer a more earthy, subtle Bordeaux. Bob says Trenner is something to buy when you are done with hifi. That being said, they will obviously need a few days to sing. I don't necessarily think you would need to alter your electronics. I do like the retro aesthetics (as does my wife).

The real problem with speakers (as one wise and older phile once told me) is you have to live with them for a year or more to really properly evaluate them. The real test is whether you sit and listen or fidget and fiddle. What a hobby.....

09-20-15: Mattnshilp
....but the speaker has a sound that clearly grabs people from the hallway and says " come in and sit. Relax and take a break from the insanity of high fi and let me play you some music."

I can say that the more I listen to them, the more I want to listen to more music. But they make me feel just a little bit stoned....

After almost 50 pages of frenetic, Brownian motion, I think something like this speaker may be precisely what the doctor ordered for ze doctor....

It's not so much about age related maturity but burnout with the hobby. I have older friends or friends with hearing loss who tend to favor speakers that sizzle. That aside, the Isis does extend out to 40kHz so not much is "theoretically" missing. It would be interesting to try some Starsound Audio products underneath your speakers. I have farted around with their products, and one of their Apprentice stands made a muddy sounding vintage pair of Pioneer speakers sound like a 10K audiophile speaker (according to a speaker designer who visited my room recently).

I think that it will come down to whichever speaker can FAITHFULLY REPRODUCE this fine NJ anthem from the 80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk

Matt, are you using points underneath the Isis?

I think they should start to breathe more after a few days....

09-21-15: Mattnshilp

The Isis is settling in nicely. It is showing me a massive soundstage that is deep, wide, tall and all around amazing; one of the best I have heard. Instruments within the soundstage are properly placed with the correct presence, size and scale. There is definitely a recognizable sound to the Isis, or lack of a sound as the case may be. I see thats its not really rolled off but it doesn't highlight the highs the same way my CU do. The distributor suggested that my listening position may be low which is accentuating the mids and lows while time delaying the highs enough to make them sound slightly laid back in comparison. I'm going to play with rake angle a bit to see what it can do.

I still think it sounds like the SET of the speaker world, an 845 SET speaker. LOL. It has luscious mids and gentle, non obtrusive but accurate highs with complex, dynamic lows that hit hard and fast. My neighbor may actually buy the demo pair when he comes over later this week, which will save me return freight costs. hehe...

What is not to like there? Give them a few more days and they should sound spectacular. May not want to pawn them off on the neighbor....

09-21-15: Mattnshilp
No more Shout. The shout is out.

....Its still there a bit, but it's clearly a room interaction and not a speaker byproduct.

So as long as your system does not spit out more than 85 dB there is no shout?

One of the guys who helped with my room mentioned your soffits and their 90 degree angles and potential phase issues that cannot be totally ameliorated by speaker positioning, etc. He said the taller the speaker, the more of a problem it is....

I think it would be a good test track for RMAF....

09-22-15: Ctsooner
I can promise you that if you think you are missing something, that you are in your head and won't be happy for the long run. You'll always sit and say "what am I missing or where is that high end etc". I agree that a very long audition is the only true way to know, but we know that's not real.

The Isis is flat out to over 40kHz, so I doubt anything is missing from acousto-electric standpoint. It's more of a setup/room/speaker issue. For me personally, shout, bite, or lack of time/phase alignment leading to a non-cohesive or non-holistic presentation and an insidious and subtle fatigue is far more important issue. Beware speakers and/or equipment that are "impressive" or "spectacular" at first blush. That is the premise behind living with things and finding out their personalities. Tricky hobby....:/

Ctsooner, the driver compliments and designs are very different on the two speakers. The Isis uses a titanium compression tweeter and not a soft dome like the 7. It also does not uses power bass drivers. So who knows....

Matt, I think the discussion was circling around the perception of the Isis as "rolled off" and what that actually meant in terms of engineering. The fact that the room played a roll is very interesting. Still more time on the stove for the Isis obviously.

Manufacturers of electronics regularly quote distortion specs. Speaker manufacturers do not. There is a reason for that. They are distortion machines...:)

09-23-15: Guidocorona
Hmmmm... Matt, You seem to be in the horrid position of having fallen in love with two divine girls! ... Oops, I meant speakers!

Which one will be your girlfriend... Double Oops, so sooorry, I meant... Which one will you choose?

May be... Marry both?!

Guido, I am a little surprised. You usually carry yourself with such grace and decorum, but....

A few days ago, I accused someone of being an amplifier polygamist on Whatsbestforum. I am not sure Matt fits that mold. He seems more of a speed dater....

So, are there any meaningful updates or must we carry on with this tiresome banter?

09-24-15: Wisnon
You guys dont even allow for equipment break-in time before you mob Matt for updates.

Let the wine breathe...he just opened the bottle!

My previous post was completely in jest. We are all just a bunch of bored, voyeur losers. I wished I lived nearby so I could bring a bottle of wine over and hear what was going on. This is such a weird, isolationist hobby.

So Matt, is your neighbor snagging the demo pair while you are set on the CU?

I would be curious to see how the Isis sounded with bad boy class A like Clayton, Gryphon, or these:

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-graff-gm-400-beautiful-like-new-2015-09-11-amplifiers-07853-long-valley-nj

Matt, you are holding up your neighbor's party train. Time to let the Isis go...:)

If you are still having trouble deciding, recruit your wife and kids to assess the two speakers. More than likely, they have better hearing than you do....

09-25-15: Knghifi
Here's a suggestion, keep the Dynaudio and when you and neighbor both need a change, swap speakers.

Brilliant....

10-24-15: Ricevs
The AD1955 is $7.00.....sounds cheap to me....I quess you don't like the word Cheap? How about inexpensive?....less offensive? I did not say the Berkeley Ref or any expensive DAC is cheap....just talking about the DAC chip.....it is cheap. cheep cheep went the bird...he he.

Priceless. When you pop the top on a lot of this stuff, and do the math, it can be a little disconcerting.....:/

10-24-15: Ricevs

A couple of years ago Martin Colloms raved about the $100,000+ Audionote DAC that uses the obsolete 18 bit AD1865 DAC chip.....no digital filter at all. Says it can compete with vinyl playing CDs! I notice that Border Patrol has just released a $10,000 DAC using the same chip with tubes on the output.

That is where its at IMO. Need Lucas at Lampizator to implement that for PCM duty.....:)

10-24-15: Mattnshilp
I think we all agree that It's all about the design and implementation. Not the cost of parts. I used to own an Ariel Atom. It was a steel frame and a "cheap" supercharged Chevy Ecotec engine. Cheap parts all around. But it did 0-60 in 2.7 seconds and cornered better then any Ferrari or McLaren I have ever driven. Talk about instant smile. Maker!!!

We are lucky to have so many brilliant designers and so many different ways to skin the proverbial DAC cat. Tastes vary, deigns vary, ears vary and rooms vary. It's all vary exciting!! ;)

You have been brainwashed by the standard industry pablum. Just imagine how much better your magic dac du jour would be if quality parts were used?

I agree Matt. I have been using computers since the early 80s and always used to laugh how the hot thing that we spent thousands on was outdated a few months later. That is the nature of computers. Antipodes, Aurender, Totaldac, Lumin, and the Aries are all "computers." What we really need are dacs that are truly impervious to their source.

07-20-14: Tbg
Agear, I wish you guys had listened to the BMC PureDac. At $1790 retail it is the best production dac I've heard.

Tbg, I have other friends who have lots of expensive dacs who also think highly of the BMC piece. That being said, extensive electrical grounding, mechanical grounding and power conditioning was necessary to extract its best. I think that is an another important take home point. Every dac described on this thread is fantastic I am certain. The question is how to extract the most performance from them to enjoy them for years (instead of a few months)....

I would not believe it if not for my recent experience. I had an Apple 2009 mini with Mojo Audio power supply, large SSD drive, all the software mods, and the improvement was the single biggest audio upgrade I had ever made.

Bill, I thought you sold your Offramp?

My roommate used the Lampi7 in his room in Chicago Axpona. He says the Overdrive beats it too.

Vapor I presume. Different speakers and systems. Hard to ground that statement in any objective reality without blinded and/or side-by-side comparisons, and thus the potential contribution of Mattnshilp with his OCD Dac extravaganza!!!

Agear, ya can't use the OffRamp with my Romulus CD player. If I were using a computer, the OR would be a must have.

I know that. :/

Your system link vaporized....???

I'm actually starting to get nervous about posting my results. ;) I'll just say it like I hear it.

I cannot wait to ridicule your findings!

Lampi versus turntable?