|
I agree with George and Al 100% about MSBs approach (and Totaldac for that matter). It seems to be the optimal approach for PCM.
I know another approach that some use that I agree with is hacking digital filtering (http://www.dddac.com).
Norman, when is Lucas going to develop chipless PCM? |
07-12-15: Ctsooner
I have and love the OSDE/SE. I run them on the Treo's and Ayre AX 5 Twenty. I get all emotion when it's there, but it's not even close to vinyl. I've heard most of these DACS in my system except for the Lamp...I personally have heard them a few times and they don't do it for me. It's a personal thing and I'm not attacking any of you who have and love them. I also am not a PS Audio guy, but plenty love them too.
I like the Totaldac gear a lot and I like Bricasti a ton too. I've heard and love the full DCS stack, but it's still not good vinyl yet. It just isn't as relaxed as vinyl. I would bet that Matt is making much of his decisions on vinyl since I know how much he loves and listens to vinyl. What Lampis have you heard? The Golden Gate is the closest I have heard to vinyl and its a considerable distance from the 7 in terms of performance (in my system). I do not own vinyl, ,but I have dialogued with others who own both, and this opinion is almost universal. |
Matt, what about horns like Cessaro? There is also Trenner which are bottom ported. I know Jeff at High water sound is in NYC and you could at least hear them there. Also, I think Trenner may have a dealer in NYC... |
07-13-15: Bill_k
Matt - with all due respect I think you may be referring to the XMOS USB input receiver chip, which is used in many high end DACs including the Bricasti M1. CMOS stands for a Complementary Metal–Oxide–Semiconductor, a technology for constructing integrated circuits but not related to USB input circuitry. That is highly amusing. Outing our technical ignorance. We all know just enough to be dangerous. That reality still does not temper our baseline of arrogance and fountain of quick opinions..... |
07-13-15: Ctsooner
I know that Steve is using the XMOS for his new DAC. Gear, I heard the 7's and they just didn't do it for me. Again, there are plenty of digital products that I do like, but I also can't justify the price of some of them as I see too many new products down the immediate pike that will most likely be as good or better and they may possibly be in the 5-7k range or less. I just feel we are in that cycle with the new digital gear with all the break throughs and new knowledge. that bodes well for all of us going forward though. You need to hear it in your own home as you stated. You cannot evaluate a piece via the speed dating of shows. Most digital products sound digital.....therein lies the problem. Maybe George's clever and cheeky suggestion is the answer.....:) |
07-15-15: Ctsooner
Gear, I fully understand. I don't go to shows, or at least I haven't in ages and if I do, it will be to see friends rather than evaluate gear. Would be fun though I'm sure. I agree that I would need to hear in my own system. That's more than fair. When I mention sounding digital, it basically means that I haven't totally relaxed and given into the music. I will say that with all the high rez stuff I've been listening to, it's much much closer and it does so many great things that vinyl can't do. That's a big reason I spent the money on digital a year or so earlier than I thought I was going to. I'm looking just as forward to the new gear as the rest of you. I was told about a couple of pieces that can't be mentioned yet that I can't wait to hear (other than the Ayre gear I mentioned). It's an exciting time and this thread shows that. Ctsoooner, I share you r sonic bias. My primary source material is digital, but I am not generally a fan of the medium and find vinyl/tape better. The Lampi has gotten more closer but there is still more to learn in terms of optimizing things. My superb sound was recently upended by a firmware update in my Aries (I think). That shows you the potential degree of fickleness of digital. It rivals anything in analog. I think mechanical and electrical grounding schemes, power conditioner, and transports can all alter your performance notably. Its annoying TBH.... |
The Isis might work depending on room behavior/treatments and the use of mechanically grounded stands (Sistrum for example). The Ra could be a possibility as well....worth a listen. |
07-20-15: Wisnon
Pharoah or the Ra maybe, but based on his room, Isis is OUT!
I cant recall if I heard the Ra (probably), but certainly the Isis and the Pharoah. Very good designers...Andreas is the one I have met several times. I had a set of vintage high Pioneers with a similar driver size to the Isis on Sistrum apprentice stands and it did not overwhelm the room. Either way, Matt needs to hear them. He may not like them.... |
07-20-15: Wisnon
Again, I heard the ISIS in Zurich in a medium sized room. When Andreas saw me in the Warsaw show, he asked me what I thought and didnt seem surprised at my report.
There may be tweaks that could work, bit this was a pretty stylish room with Rowland electronics and other nice gear. So the sense of style did not overcome the bass...:) In other words a non-dedicated room without stands. There are tweaks that work....that's part of my point. |
07-21-15: Jh901
R-2R ladder:
MSB DAC V
totaldac d1-twelve
Which of these other DACs are R2R ladder?
Aesthetix Pandora/Romulus
APL DSD-S
Auralic Vega
Berkeley Alpha Reference
Boulder 1021
CH Precision C1
Chord DAVE
dCS "Ring DAC"
EMM Labs DAC2x
Empirical Audio Overdrive SE
Esoteric Grandioso D1
exaSound e22
Jeff Rowland Aeris
Lampizator GG
Nagra HD DAC
Playback Designs MPS / MPD - 5
PS Audio DirectStream
Zanden Model 5000
Appreciated, Josh Zanden, CAD, Trinity, Phasure, Red Wine Audio (at one point) are ones I know of... |
Guido, there is a long thread involving High Fidelity fanboys who are foaming at the mouth for 50 pages: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1335297906&openmine&Agear&4&5&st2450 I recommend you jump into that mosh pit and splash around with them...:) |
07-23-15: Guidocorona
Thank you Agear for the link.
As for your purple oneliner... Masterful as usual... With just a hint of tasteless... A veritable Agearism at its best. ;)
Congrats, G. Ha! Guido, I am glad you appreciated my underhandedness. :) I find that I have to be ever so slightly graphic with my insults otherwise they get lost in translation. A lot of people don't really read anymore. A lot of talking and no listening..... Your perceptions of CH Precision have been shared by others that I know and trust....but again, it was at a show. My speakers have spit out wretched sound in a show setting on more than one occasion despite having great potential. Oh well.... |
07-24-15: Cerrot
Matt - I am totally impressed at how you are going about your speaker purchase (and cd/dac audition). You are doing it with class. If I were a dealer, I'd give you the keys to my store (and a nice discount). That's one interpretation. If Matthew stayed on his meds, this thread would be a lot shorter with more focus.... |
07-25-15: Guidocorona
Hey Agear, If I can point out a flaw in your otherwise excellent purplesome... I do not "splash', I usually slosh and wallow instead.
Concerning Matt's condition, meds won't help. According to Dr. Aloysius Qwantz Schmaltzenstein-Gavronsky, our collective Audiophrenia is a prionic infection. If you got it, you bought the farm. See:
positive-feedback.com
G. Ha! Sloshing and wallowing comes with age and maturity like a fine wine. I aspire to roll as you do in cyberspace....:) As for our collective condition, I whole wholeheartedly agree. I feign transcendence and am merely taking a cheap shot at my brother in crime Matthew..... |
Pearl is another good speaker. Matt, did you ever sniff out the Behold stuff? Interesting design concepts....
Despite the obvious psychiatric issues I referenced earlier, Matt should be congratulated for his zeal and opening up his cyber lab allowing us losers to feed our voyeuristic tendencies.... |
07-26-15: Georgelofi
Well Wisnon, I just got an order for my product from this customer, who has the "very best" of everything.
And when I asked him what his system was, this is what he listed.
"Pacific Microsonics model 2 (DAC) with a pair of Soulution 701 monoblocks that are driving Magico Q7mkII speakers."
Then I asked him if he would ever consider selling me the PM model 2. "He will never get rid of it and will be buried with it as nothing has ever come close to it", and he has very very deep pockets.
I then asked as a joke for him to leave it in his will, and he said "there is a very long queue for that, for me to stand in line. LOL. That speaks volumes.... |
07-26-15: Mattnshilp
Agear - I gave up on my meds a long time ago. Alas, they only work until noon and then wore off completely leaving me in a rebound state far worse then what I started off with..... Ha! I bet most of your fiddling occurs at night when the wife and kids are asleep. The lab is only open at night....:) |
That is a very interesting piece of history Matt. It's sad how some quality companies can come and go.
Avalon is another good option (at least I am a fan). I am glad you spoke with Bob about T&F. He is a jewel, and its worth a sniff. |
06-09-15: Mcondon
Are you in New Jersey? If so, I would give Brett Messler at Audio 202 in Far Hills a call. Some of the speakers on your audition list were also on mine. Brett carries some interesting brands you won't hear elsewhere. I auditioned Behold Tanara speakers and thought they were a lot better than Vivid, Marten, Wilson, Raidho, and Acoustic Zen. Behold speakers also would work well in a room your size. I have no affiliation, I am just a former satisfied customer and thought he might be in your locale. If you are not in New Jersey, sorry. The Behold stuff looks interesting as well...although its 55K....:\ |
08-02-15: Mattnshilp
I want to thank all for getting into my speaker search. I'm sorry I sidetracked the thread but its been a fun sidetrack and you guys have given me great suggestions! I promise this thread will end up back on the DAC track when the speaker decision has been finalized.
Matt, the bunny trails into speakers and room are welcome and honesty far more interesting than the petty and one dimensional tribalism that dac discussions generate. They are also far more important final arbiters of sound....:) |
08-02-15: Mattnshilp
I definitely am drawn to a truly full range speaker with deep extension, accurate reproduction leaning towards the forceful side; with a sense of impact and scale that some speakers sacrifice to reproduce the lower frequencies with more accuracy and a sense of finesse. I almost see it as live vs studio... Live is scale, impact and dynamic while the studio recording is more accurate with finesse and the gentle skilled hand of a studio engineer to properly reproduce every nuance. In other words, you want to be this guy: https://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/images_maninchair.jpg?w=700&h=297Is that a Jersey thing? |
Mike, I think Matt liked the MM3s but they overloaded his room..... |
08-03-15: Mattnshilp
I spoke with the T&F dealer. He insists the Isis are too big for my room and the Ra would do me just fine. He says they go down to 25hz without an issue but the web site says 40hz. He seams to think the Ra are the greatest things since sliced bread. I need to look into the Ra more to see how low they go.....
I have heard the Aerial 20 and I thought it was a tad bright. They are coming out with a new 12 or 13T (don't remember which # is it) and it may be bottom ported and it will use a soft some tweeter. About 9-12 months out. I own a pair of 10T's and I love them. They live in my Family Room and I will never given them up.
I just need to decide if a 2.5 hour drive is worth it to get my ears on the Ra and BMC speakers..... Bob told me they have used the Isis speakers in smallish hotels rooms? I think it may be setup dependent. I am interested in the Ra as well and was actually going to fly down to TX to hear them (Bob has the entire lineup at his home). My MO was finding a speaker for a standard living space. The wife wants to move in the next year or so, and I need a speaker that can be easily used in a normal living room (crammed against a back wall) with small creatures running about. She HATES my current granite monoliths (which are superb speakers but look like sepulchers). I asked about the bass on the Ra as well, and although they measure to 40 Bob claims they spit stuff out in the 20s due to their horn loading. I also like the idea of a high efficiency, wide baffle design with directivity that "limits" the room. I have Viva amps and they often mate those two at shows. I like Aerial. They are one of the few companies that is able to make ribbons sound tonally correct. Great speakers but I have only heard older models. I have always liked High Water's rooms at shows. The Cessaro horns are nice as are the Horning stuff.... |
Norman, specs are deceptive. Some panels (Audio Analysis) have bass extension into the 20s but it is perceived as thin due to the physics involved. The same holds true to the Ra apparently. Bob Clarke has measured into bass output into the 20s. Proof is in the pudding I guess.... |
For the record, when we make recommendations to Matt as regards to speakers, we all need to remember his natural habitat and vernacular. When he says "bass," what he really means is something that will rattle the side panels of his El Calmino while cruising down the turnpike juiced up on malt liquor.... |
08-04-15: Mattnshilp
But I will admit I had a Mustang GT in high school with four 10" subwoofers. Oh yeah baby! I worked in a car stereo store back them and did a killer install. It's always been in my blood. From 2000-2006, I owned an E34 M5. I had some car audio jocks drop in an Eclispe deck, Audiocontrol 3.1 over/equalizer, PPI amps, a Kicker sub, and top of the line Focal speakers. It was killer. I did more "dedicated" listening in my car and honestly enjoyed it more than my audiophile rig at the time (BelCanto 1.1>>Audible Illusions L1>>Belles 150A Hot Rod>>Cardas GR wires>>Merlin VSM MMs). |
Matt, what are your room dimensions again? |
08-05-15: Wisnon
Gear, size wise was about the same as the Zurich room. See my link to 6moons.
Better room treatment in Newport though, with curtains, etc. Zurich was more exposed wall, etc. I saw the link. They used Viva DHT amps and not Rowland in Newport. Matt has a dedicated 9' x 14.5' x 9' room +/- treatments, so he should be fine IMO. Matt, did the MM3s overload your room or was it more of the setup limitations? |
Charles, I remember reading your impressions elsewhere, and I took note. I know that Trenner has shown with SS as well. Norman heard the Isis speaker with Rowland....I believe.... |
Mitch2, you started a thread not too long ago on the subject of servers. Why did you choose the Antipodes over an Aurender? |
This speaker thing is a bitch. Dacs are easy breezy. Matt, I wonder how much of what you're hearing at these demoes is due to poor setup? Speaker setup is a science, and I know I have mangled it repeatedly.
When will you be hearing the Ras? |
As was stated earlier in the thread, the Ras are simply a frame of reference Norman. |
Norman, Goldmund has always been cutting edge engineering. My speaker designer (Dale Pitcher) said they have been at the forefront of mechanical grounding, etc. Their only real downside is the price tag.... |
But price tag may not be an issue for Mattheus. He appears to be a baller and operates in the stratosphere where most of cannot breathe..... |
If Matt does rumble into Manhattan, a visit to other hi end dealers may be in order including Jeff at Highwater Sound. i have always loved his rooms at shows. I liked the Cessaro horns and Horning speakers: http://www.highwatersound.com |
Paul, the Totaldac server is pricey correct? |
It's interesting news about CAD. He's a US citizen and an engineer so it's not totally surprising |
Matt, I believe Bob has a pair of Isis in TX you could fly down and hear.... |
08-15-15: Mattnshilp
I found the Vandy 7 a tad veiled on the upper registers. It was subtle and didn't really effect my overall impression. They just didn't extend with the accuracy and finesse that the Coltrane Tenor did. Interestingly, it was the same on the low end. The Tenors maintained a better sense of control, impact, extension and finesse in the lower registers than the Vandy. I think the forward firing long excursion twin 8's with down firing port helped to keep the room further from the equation then the down firing, side vented Vandy's. I felt the rumble and heard all the notes, they were right and proper and had both accurate rise and decay but I didn't get that punch in the chest when expected like I did with the Tenors. I also felt that on rare occasions the base became disconnected from the rest of the music, like I could hear that it was being amplified by a different amplifier; the tone subtly shifted and it became identifiable that there was a subwoofer and monitor, and not just a speaker. Other then that, they did everything right.
Every speaker with power woofers I have heard has that same subtle discontinuity. Time to bend over Matt and accept reality. The Tenors appear to be your speakers...... |
Everyone hears differently I guess or has different acuity. Next.... |
Norman, what is the price tag? The Tenor's made Matt blush. Goldmund really bends u over. I would not necessarily want their amps and/or dac. Friends who have heard their stuff on several occasions always went away feeling it was little on the Swiss/clinical side.... |
I know Lampizator Lucasz is a big Goldmund fan: And last thing - one might say that I have a prejudice against Goldmund - but I don't. I simply cant stand the bullshit of their marketing. I think that everybody and every business has a right to bullshit people just a little, but goldmund is really pushing it to the edge. http://lampizator.eu/Munich/Munich%20High%20End.htmlVery funny stuff.... |
I agree Norman. I have read enough about Goldmund to know they are a serious company. I had read L's extended tirade about the 2009 Munich show before and found it amusingly transparent.
A lot of what they are fiddling with is the future. There is no doubt. |
08-21-15: Wisnon
No doubt the future is here, and a pal of mine sold everything save his "first born" to finance a pair of Prologos wireless and says he is DONE after 45 years of search. Selling/sold his vinyl and R2R collection!!!! Selling his Lampizator too? Is he showing signs of early dementia? |
08-22-15: Wisnon
No, he has not used his Lampi in ages since he went Emerald Physics then Goldmund DSP electronics. If EP was his prior frame of reference, that explains some of the hyperbole.... |
I am not surprised Matt. The Esotar is my favorite tweeter and that speaker is time and phase aligned which always makes music. Are you sure its not too much speaker for your room? It extends down the 17Hz and is big....? |
That sounds good Matt. I love their drivers, and a lot of peeps seem to like that bad boy speaker. I think your journey may be done (other than hearing the Isis). In an ideal world, it would be fun to own both! The Trenner stuff is designed for normal living spaces. I used to be a fan of the show "Pimp My Ride," and if you are familiar with it, the rapper Xzibit would always make the proclamation "you have officially been pimped" after they finished with their car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUPQ1t-0o8oI think that is you finally. You have been pimped.... |
Norman, the audiofederation blurb is about the plus. Wireless will not magically deliver the goods. Matt will fill us in I am sure....:)... |
Winson, again, the Audiofederation blurb is about the wireless speaker. The angels were not singing....:) I think the AV guy was in the minority at Newport. Furthermore, a lot of press guys will burn incense at the Goldmund alter for obvious reasons (Srajan for example). I think of lot of this is marketing driven and not pure engineering (which is fine...they are a business). A lot of rich guys like the concept of a lifestyle speaker. There are a lot of rich bank fat cats here in Charlotte who would love them! They would not tolerate noisy DHTs and tube rolling. Maybe when I have my psychotic breakdown and finally get burned out on audio, I will transition over and enjoy elevator music in my living room.
Norman, when are you converting? Is your Lampizator for sale?...:) |
