Dear Raul,
if you are thinking the SME 30/2 is a top performer I am wondering why you are not going for it. Maybe we see the table in your system soon?
It is not about me. You need to become happy with this table. If you are as many others are this is fine. I respect and understand your benchmark position on TTs now better.
I usually try not repeating myself - especially on listening assessments.
best @ fun only |
Peterayer,
I have listened to the SME 30/2 in a very good Kondo chain in the UK together with a good friend and a dealer. We stayed there for one day (!) and compared many many records we all knew quite well, also having played on my own TTs with the same Kondo M7 phono preamp.
My impression was that it is a fine turntable as the Walker is too but it is not one of the Top 5 I ever listened to. And we all three auditioning at that day agreed on this impression. This is why I told Raul when he is telling me the 30/2 is the King of Turntables in his opinion, so it is his benchmark table. I am just saying in my opinion it is not but it will be a fine turntable in many good chains and therefore it may not make sense to elobarate in detail what is missing because you need to compare with TTs Raul and maybe you did not listen to so far (don`t get me wrong I am not blaming you nor Raul for this). I hope you can live with my statement and pls. enjoy your wonderful system.
I have not listened to the SME 30/12
best @ fun only
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Dear Raul,
understand your fascination of the SME which only gives me an idea what you regard as Top-Performers, nothing else. But your words on my MS is exactely why it does not makes sense to compare. You do not know my Micro Seiki implementaion. You do not know that I use a better PS, that I use an air based Micro Seiki platform underneath, and another vibration control mechanism as well, that I am using a very precise speed variability & control system etc. But nevertheless you blow bubbles in the air.
It makes no sense as others have told you before to look (or even not look) at the images of one`s system and start interpretation like you do again.
best @ fun only |
Oh yes, who ever has experienced a well adjusted idler drive like in the EMT 927 or R 80 knows which kind of dynamics & musicality you may reach by ID. Nevertheless I also enjoy my BDs and the DD - so in principle you will reach good results with all drives but it depends how it is implemented. So far I have not seen combinations of two drives. Is it possible?
best @ fun only |
well well, I received so many writings asking me to give some information about my assessment of the SME 20/2 that I am no more reluctant giving a brief review always having in mind that many of our community will face some problems "with my philosophy", having not the chance listening to my TTs in my environment which I regard as crucial for comparisons and also for better understanding of my position. So far only Dertonearm and my English friend are able to compare and understand, not necessarily share my position.
I for myself don't regard the perfect reproduction machines as the ones I
do favour. A really Top Performer needs to have a personality, a character which makes it really outstanding or brings it into a benchmark position. That doesn't mean coloured or distorted ( i hear the guns firing...). One of the last modern turntables I listened to and would put into this class is The Beat.
The SME 20/2 is in my honest opinion a fine reproduction machine but to my taste flat and not very vibrant. In terms of cars (pls. forgive me I am livng in this world) it is a Ford Mondeo. You like the brochure and when you sit in the car you are just sitting in a car... |
Dear Raul,
don't shorten the content of my sentence - this style is a different kind of journalism... not what we are used to here.
I said:
If the result is a flat and not vibrant impression I do not care if the principles of neutrality in turntable building are the most desired precondition. I just assess the turntable misses something or adds something which I do not prefer |
Peterayer,
sorry this was a wrong transfer when I wrote the last comment. I listened to and I always mean the SME 30.
best @ fun only |
Dear Raul,
when I am assessing a turntable's sonic footprint I need to have comparable preconditions, meaning same tonearm, same cartridge and same phono pre ideally. Sometimes you have to compromise on one or two units differing which is not the ideal way.
Nevertheless when I am listening to a record I do expect that the audio chain and especially the phono parts (turntable is one, maybe the most important part of it, or not?) are able to reproduce the signal like it was recorded and create a warm, open, detailed and as Syntax is mentioning a 'toe whipping vibration'. If the music is not dynamic ( not meaning overdynamic which e.g. some not well adjusted idlers may produce ) or wishi-washy etc. somehing was wrong during the recording process or is not well transported by the audio chain.
When I have listened to the same record with the same tonearm, the same cart and the same phono-pre (the preamps and amps both excellent comparable tube solutions) only the turntable is different (! SME 30/2) I am not the only one, at least in the specific session, who thinks he is able to assess the sonic footprint of a turntable.
If the result is a flat and not vibrant impression I do not care if the principles of neutrality in turntable building are the most desired precondition. I just assess the turntable misses something or adds something which I do not prefer (Peterayer - of course subjective).
Now you (or some others) may put me in the corner of a certain music philosophy you are not liking sharing with me. But this is how the world is and we may allow many audio listeners to enjoy their SME 30 with good feelings. I now know in which corner I must put you :-)
best @ fun only
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Dear Geoch,
Agree Absolutely.
But does a friendly group sharing experiences not explicitely ask for sharing assessments we are making or are we a playmobil of the marketing efforts of manufacturers? Or let me put it into other words: what is wrong with showing that we have different assessments and everyone among us can make up his mind?
I think sometimes a clear word is maybe better than elaborating too complicated in clouds of overall agreement. I for myself regard our group as a platform of experienced and very competent audio afficiniados which enables us to learn a lot too - which I like very much.
Being in a corner is not a bad thing, we all have our likes and dislikes. No one is better because of his gear, maybe one has reached a fine level of experience on carts or tables or tonearms or tapes, whatever.
What I regard as most important is not attacking the person behind a unit or a philosophy coming with, exchanging ideas or judgements is just another way of enjoying our hobby. In this respect our group seems to be very grown up.
Whenever you find a clear statment of mine it is meant to express my assessment of a unit not targeting the person behind it. In the case of Raul & me it is a lot of fun exchanging different and sharing opinions. And sometimes challenging a position helps to clarify standpoints - nothing else.
best & fun only
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No No Geoch, you were not! |
Deartonearm,
yes very funny communication style: "end of discussion, finish etc."
and on the other hand questions & questions and always trying to push someone
hmm- sometimes the world is colourful...
but I might get a new chance in the SME 30 thread...
best @ fun only |
BTW RMAF is over. Did anyone listen to the Onedof player? what are your impressions?
best @ fun only |
seems the Onedof was not a mayor focus point at RMAF 2011.
Did anyone see big inventions on the turntable design recently?
best @ fun only |
this sounds very very interesting for me. Boku wa Micro Seiko ga dai suki desu. Dakara kyomiga arun desu kedo sono TT no imagu mitte kudasai.
Ja mada |
Jonathan,
thanks for providing us with these details and the images. I will send you an e-mail.
see you
eckart |
In_shore,
maybe!
best @ fun only |
Ct0517,
this one looks as the first Gabriel version before it was taken over by DaVinci AudioLabs.
best @ fun only |
many thanks Jonathan for providing the fotos and also to Henry for posting.
From the Hirez images it looks that the build quality of the Air Force One is exceptional. I would like to look closer at the bearing, the motor and the tonearm bases taking up 12" tonearms?
I also need to check the haptics of the buttons. these might be sensors. are they fixed in a stable way like with the MS or do they provide a feeling of plastique. In any way I would add a flywheel on the right side. Maybe Nakazawa sama is coming up with such an addition.
best @ fun only |
In_shore,
I still have one board available behind one of the Bavarian Voices speakers possibly taking up the Air Force One. But I gave myself a promise not exceeding the number of five turntables. In that case I need to sell one of the turntables, which one do you like to have?
I have heard about the advantages of wall mounted shelves - Halcro inspired me a lot -. In my configuration I need to implement different measurements which I did.
I share Halcro`s assessment of the Phantom II. It is a good arm and you may put it on a SME table to better it up - I mean the SME. But there are much superior designs out in the market and also the vintage design of FR and SAEC I believe beat the Phantom by far.
best @ fun only |
Dear Halcro,
you will like the "Minus-K Raven combination" with "the two motors" and the Bavarian string, I am pretty sure.
Good move!
I will get the AlnicSpeedNic at this weekend and test it (also against the Timeline). Will report about the results.
best @ fun only |
... but is not the most practical and finest tonearm you can buy today.... as the advertisement on the Graham web-site explains. Deartonearm it depends what kind of choice you have (also in today's market). Nevertheless The Graham was and is a a consistently developed and in many steps refined design with a good build quality as well. But the basic principle parameters did not change very much. Very good means in my understanding Top of the cream for all turntable conditions. I am pretty sure that the new Davinci arm and yours maybe too will speak a word in the Top-Class.
I admire Bob Graham for having established an iconic brand and product. Also his service is excellent. I sometimes compare it with the Porsche 911, built since many decades with some changes.
There might be a new Phantom Super Supreme III in a few years and the community will love it too. Why not?
best @ fun only |
ah, I see all the great champions in this analog world are coming together. welcome back gentlemen. yes it is worth talking about armpods and the possibility of exchanging arms quickly. I would miss my universal original Micro Seiki armboards so much that I even mounted one on my EMT. I now learned that Raul is not using his MS turnable anymore. No wonder - No system change on TTs in 10 years, you might feel like in a storage room of old unused audio equipment. Don't laugh, I have seen this sometimes. People keep their units but only use one TT all the time. They have many arms but use only one. Why not?
If this might enable the owner to have a profound knowledge on comparing TTs and arms and also assess the quality of armboards in certain environments I doubt. |
Dear Halcro,
what I learned is that taking an active isolation vibration platform, Herzan or Accurion, the latter one is not really cheap, may establish an even less nervous and more relaxed sound stage. As I showed on my blog it is quite an investment but you will get back a lot. Great discussion and philosophy!
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