I would post the name here and let the court of public opinion rule on it. Send the company a link to the discussion so they can see how it is going. Do the same on any other forums you frequent. I bet that magically gets them to spring into action to make things right.
I’ve seen this exact scenario play out many times on various forums. One potentially upset customer is no big deal, a bunch of existing or potential future customers reading about poor service is a much bigger issue. The company often springs into damage control to avoid having things spiral out of control.
By the way, the better business bureau is not a worthwhile yardstick to measure anything. It’s basically like Yelp where people can leave reviews, and companies can pay to get rid of poor reviews. A lot of people think it’s somehow official or even maybe a government agency, but it isn’t.
EDIT you might also try posting your story on their social media pages, if the company has them. Same theory applies there as well.
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I sent him a message, with this discussion link, on one of his items for sale posted here on Audiogon as a starting point prior to mentioning his business name. Hope he responds to end this nonsense.
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There are three sides to every story.
This side. That side. The truth.
Based on published knowledge… screw the guy. At this point in time you most likely are out $400.
Publish the name and save fellow cable buyers from similar grief.
I shoot competitively… a manufacturer in my world has crapped in his own bed one too many times and essentially put himself out of business for similar practices.
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I agree - expose the manufacturer.
As to a non-working USB it happens. I ran into this situation twice. Both times the issue was resolved by the dealer but the second time it took several months to get a refund with calls and emails.
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Why I don't do usb among other things.
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If you did not buy directly from the manufacturer, you may have no course against it, but you likely would against the seller. Your jurisdiction likely has some version of small claims court where you could essentially file a suit without the aid of an attorney. Your local court clerks office should help you with the process. You might not ever collect it, but getting a judgment against the seller would be a problem for him that he might like to avoid. Not good for the reputation or the credit rating
without knowing all the facts it’s hard to know for sure what the best course of action is, but from what you described, this might be worthwhile. your state Attorney General‘s office probably has a consumer protection division and it might be worthwhile to report this to that group as well.
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Get the refund, say goodbye to the usb cable 'maker' idiot who made it in his idiot garage.....and buy a Audioquest usb cable that fits your budget.
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@deep_333 I can’t get a refund from the seller until the maker sends my cable back to me which he seems to refuse to do…I have since moved on and purchased a Veritas Audex top of the line USB cable that far far exceeds my AQ coffee I had prior. Just a fabulous sounding cable that I am very happy with.
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deep_333 gives good advice. I have audioquest Rocket 11 speaker cables and they.are about $300 for the 8' first quality.
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@kerrybh just trying to get my cable sent back to me from the maker so I can send it to the seller and get a refund…seller has been supportive with this issue.
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The fact that it is a three way transaction makes things a little more complex but I agree with everyone else who said name the company. In the hifi world, a lot rests on reputation. I know of a few brands who make real nice equipment that I would never buy due to situations exactly like this.
We don't really know you or the whole story but what motivation would you have to be dishonest here? Seems pretty cut and dry. So I'm inclined to believe you and would like to add this company to my Do Not Buy list. But I'm sure you will report if they make it right, which could change my mind (I assume I'm not the only one).
I also have a Veritas Audax USB, one of my favorite recent purchases. Wise choice there.
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Ok
I misunderstood the situation. I thought it was both the seller and the manufacturer that was the problem
A little more difficult since you did not buy from the manufacturer
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Ok message received…Revelation Audio Labs …the sad thing is I have purchased from Brad in the past with great service and his cables are top notch. I have since discovered he has had a history of this behavior in the past. You just don’t know what kind of service you are going to get from him. Good or Bad…he does advertise and sell a fair amount on Audiogon. I don’t like hurting small businesses but others should be aware of the games/nonsense he can put customers through.
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Interesting it won't play with streamer but works w laptop. Streamer issue?
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Mid fi person here. You guys spend thousands upon thousands on gear just write off the $400 & move on. In the long run it’s just a drop in the bucket chasing sonic euphoria. Next time buy from a name brand like us commoners on Amazon & avoid the hassles like this. 😉😆
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The company you mentioned DOES have a history of this type of thing. I have avoided buying from him because of this.
Perhaps he is physically sick.
Good Luck.
ozzy
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@blackbag20 I have used several different USB cables on my streamer and all have worked fine. Because it works on a laptop and supposedly tests fine ?? I think it has a cable end connector issue that doesn’t engage fully on the streamer input…just guessing.
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There have been numerous problems reported about this guy for years. Seems like he disappears for a while and then he’s back like nothing ever happened. It’s good you’ve moved on. Life is too short.
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@ozzy Thanks and sound decision avoiding RAL…Don’t think he is “physically” sick. He has several ads/auctions listed here and I have seen several posts of customers receiving new cables during this time frame. If he was sick that should have been mentioned in our exchanges the past 8 months explaining the delay. Brad keeps promising it’ will be sent by the end of the week when he occasionally responds.
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Revelation Audio Labs …the sad thing is I have purchased from Brad in the past with great service and his cables are top notch. I have since discovered he has had a history of this behavior in the past. You just don’t know what kind of service you are going to get from him. Good or Bad…he does advertise and sell a fair amount on Audiogon. I don’t like hurting small businesses but others should be aware of the games/nonsense he can put customers through.
Thanks for letting others know the situation @tksteingraber. I hear what you are saying, but with the downfall of one small business owner other more respectful small business owners stand to benefit. There are plenty of small boutique cable makers these days, most are stand-up people who back their products 100%, and without word of mouth reviews, good or bad, consumers won't have this information. That is what is awesome about Audiogon and other audio forums.
Sure as sh#t we can't trust the "professional" reviewers in their advertiser-funded tabloids/e-magazines to give us this truth for fear of legal retribution or a blacklist reputation.
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@mclinnguy 👍… Veritas certainly benefited from my issue. Great fairly new boutique cable company with top notch reasonably priced cables run by great guys with excellent immediate customer service. I liked their USB cable so much I ended up buying 5 other cables from them yikes! No affiliation with Veritas just a happy customer.
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He should return your cable without a doubt, it is your choice not his.
"I think it has a cable end connector issue that doesn’t engage fully on the streamer input…just guessing."
3 sides to every story, is it the connector on the streamer input or the cable end that is slightly deviant? (If you guess correctly) If you had the cable working, and bought the streamer, you would think the streamer is the problem.
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@elliottbnewcombjr Cable is definitely the issue. I have used my streamer with several cables prior to and after buying the RAL cable. Only cable that has not worked is the RAL cable.
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As many know here I used to build cables. USB cables are interesting. I had two occasions where my USB cable did not work in a system. Synergy was not right. I determined my hand made cable (hand twisted data conductors) did not appease the needs of the system in very rare cases.
I have experienced another brand, highly reviewed and respected, and their USB cable did not work in my system. Again this is rare, but does happen. The seller or builder should take the cable back and refund.
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I’ve learned that you don’t always get what you pay for but you definitely don’t get what you don’t pay for….. ( excluding used equipment in this genre).
in this case, you theoretically got half off but got no service. C’est la vie!
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Makes one believe they should actually see factual documented proof these wires and cables actually do what they’re supposed to do in the first place. It’s complete BS that you’re supposed to hear a difference because you’re told to. Credited companies do not operate in this format. When does a new house go for half price or a new car or truck….Snooze you lose end of story.
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The seller agreed and still agrees to take back the cable for a full refund. The problem is the maker Brad at RAL will not return it to me or the seller after repeated request to do so. He’s in essence stealing my $400 cable.
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Last year I had the opposite happen to me. I had been changing my system over to Audience Front Row cables from start to finish. I purchased all of them brand new from TMR except for one RCA cable pair I bought from a seller on US Audiomart. After installing them in my system I found one cable to cause very low output on one channel. Swapping the cable around showed the problem followed one of the two cables. A check with a DMM and found high resistance in the one offending cable. Close inspection under a scope showed n signs of trauma, Trying to contact the seller was futile, so I reached out to Audience via the phone, I explained what had happened and that I bought this set on the used market. They had me ship the pair to them, and indeed found it to be faulty. In less than a week they sent me back a brand new pair of cables, No, cost, no questions.
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OP understood. He should return it.
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since the SELLER sold you a faulty cable, he should do more to resolve the situation. I understand that when things go as planned this is the normal workflow, but things are not going as planned to say the least.
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I coincidentally just received an umbilical cable for my Trafomatic preamp from Revelation yesterday. It’s very high quality, great pricing, nice packaging, free shipping, and couldn’t be happier. Previous to ordering I read multiple forum posts from people that had issues, and I also didn’t receive a response to an email query I sent to them. After waiting a while to find the cable I needed on the used market without success I saw they sell through eBay so I ordered with the security of PayPal thinking worst case I’d be fully refunded if it didn’t show up. The cable was shipped quickly to Canada vis UPS. It’s a mystery why it’s so hit or miss on responses / customer service.
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@sworksone He values selling on ebay and knows ebay won’t allow him to get away with jerking customers around so he behaves. Glad to hear you had a smooth sale. His cables are excellent -enjoy! I had no issues when I bought an umbilical cord direct from him a few years back….something is just off with his behavior as a seller.
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Post on Member Reviews forum with a title that mentions this manufacturer. As far as I’m concerned he should be held accountable and be exposed for the way he conducts business. FAFO
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@awise1961
That is what should happen with a company sincerely interested in continuing viability.
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If you live in the US, there's only one way to do cables, in my opinion. Use The Cable Company. They will send you 4-5 usb cables for you to demo all at the same time. Pick the one you like best, and if you don't like any of them, just keep what you have. You'll be out shipping, but you'll get to try several thousands of dollars worth of cables risk free.
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I had something similar happen with a 'cottage industry' supplier on the other side of the world, who was always too busy to refund me for my trade-in parts. After several months I wrote:
I am still waiting for my funds. If you can tell me what the problem is at your end, my partner may be able to help. She managed international transactions for one of the big four Australian banks.
Alternatively, my brother lives in England and is a solicitor, so could act as an intermediary
I got my refund overnight (or I will have, after allowing for bank clearance times).
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@audphile1 Good suggestion. I just posted a Buyers beware thread under Members Reviews mentioning Revelation Audio Labs to warn buyers.
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Audience is awesome when it comes to customer service. I had their AU24se+ usb cable and one of the heat shrinks was getting sticky to the touch and lettering wore off. Contacted them and they ended up replacing the heat shrinks, connectors and upgraded the cable to Studio One for free. All I paid was shipping one way to them.
@tksteingraber perfect. This is going to serve the community very well and will teach the manufacturer a lesson.
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If its not warranty work there is no obligation to keep the Cable for a crrective measure to be put in place.
If a quote given is belonging to an out of warranty product and the quote given is to supply a free service, it does not have any gravitas if the owner requests their Cable to be returned.
Holding on to the Cable without giving a full explanation, creates a situation where theft of the Cable can be suspected as an intention.
A Reputation of the Sales Service 'Revelation Audio Labs' which is dependent on making sales, is on the verge of being trounced, if a proper dialogue does not develop to reunite the Cable and its owner.
Revelation Audio Labs should take heed, as the Gon Mob with their Stick Torches and Pitch Forks in hand are very adept at driving the unwanted types with strange behaviours out of the Village.
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@tksteingraber - I have had a bad experience with Brad Vojtech as well, to the sum of about $900. He stopped replying to my emails and did not send my order as promised. I am glad this thread has been created - thank you for your alert.
In friendship - kevin
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There are a number of different USB standards. Not all USB cables support all the signal lines used for all the standards. It would be worthwhile to figure out what levels of USB your devices expect and the highest level of USB the cable claims to support.
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@tksteingraber Thank you for naming the offending party which has now been added to my List of companies to avoid. A quick google search shows similar complaints across a multiple other audio forums so you are not alone in this. But I had never seen any of those and only vaguely knew of this company, everything I had heard was positive so I could have easily found myself ordering from them.
You may have saved lots of us from getting into the same situation so thank you for that.
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As there is usually discovered on a Forum, a thread which directs individuals to Services that have been satisfactory and recommended, i.e, Third Party Cartridge Services or Overhaul Services for equipment.
A Thread such as this will become obscure and buried, to avoid this, there can also be a Thread Created, preferably by the Administrators, that creates the Opportunity to list Services with a history of Customers who have a outcome of dealing with the Service have not being satisfied.
Services only need to be listed not named and shamed. The other info can be shown through a Link added to direct to a thread where the Service is being reported on by a Customer/Customers. I'm sure that within a List, if a Service was to have shown a list of links to show how Customers feel about their interaction and if these are where the Customer has had an unsavoury experience, the phone will steadily ring much much less for such a Service.
The Administrator are leaning heavily towards the Forum being a place where Vendors have a free reign to promote wares for sale. The Administration would best serve the Forum Members by supporting a Space on the Forum as a one stop shop to speedily see if a Vendor has adeptness at creating disgruntled customers.
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For everyone following this thread…
I made a post earlier to report on my experience with Brad Vojtech. Unknown to me, as he had neglected to send me an email update, he had actually shipped my order two days earlier, after my wait of close to a month after he had completed work on my order. I only know this because right after my earlier post, I sent Brad an email to say that having read of the problems others were also having with his service, I’d be having someone sent over to his place of work to pick my refund, if I didn’t hear from him again. His reply was almost immediate, and lengthy, showing me pictures of my completed order and then the tracking number for the package which had shipped a few days earlier.
This post is to let everyone know what my sense of things are with Brad.
He works alone, to start with. Based on my earlier research, which did not get into service issues and were entirely focussed on product quality, I contacted him because I had a feeling he was the right person for my project. Nothing was thrown up on any of my searches regarding delays or bad service. From everything I’ve gathered, he works alone and focussed on the skill of what he does best - building electrical signal and power transmission products. I had him build me a particular kind of adaptor that is not available anywhere, and I now await its delivery to know how well it works. I have a good feeling it will do very well, based on the reviews I’ve read about his work.
So, here’s the rub - Brad takes forever to reply once he has received tour order, as he does what he does best to the neglect of the pleasantries and promptness that defines the service industry. This does not excuse the lack of attention to customer emails and service needs, but it is also important to know he is not a commercial firm that mass produces stuff for pure commercial gain. He is not a synergistic research or a shunyata, and he does it all with his own hands, and types his emails with his own fingers.
So, you will have to wait for your order with not a whole lot of communication if you choose to have Brad build you something. And you might have to send quite a few emails to make sure he sends you your order while tending to other things. But he will deliver at days end.
The quality of the product will be for you to decide. I look forward to testing mine.
In friendship - kevin
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@kevn Appreciate your post and details. I realize Brad is a one man show but his behavior and game playing nonsense is inexcusable. Timely communication is a requirement for a successful sales business. Don’t repeatably lie to customers. Follow through with what you say you are going to do otherwise you earn a reputation as an untrustworthy lier. Maybe you could have your friend stop by and pick up my cable that has been with Brad for over 8 months…or contact the Palm Coast police department to stop by😉. Enjoy your cables
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I've been following this thread without comment as I purchased some custom made cables for a modified Perpetual Technologies dac setup, this early 2000's. I had absolutely no issues with cables, communications or timeliness, don't know what's changed? Perhaps things more hectic, greater backlog since my purchase when he was virtually unknown? In any case this level of service not acceptable. I know Brad used to (don't know if this continues) to profess adherence to 'Christian values' in statements regarding his business, what this means?
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The three legged stool of a successful business usually involves the relative quality and value of the product, after-sales service, and responsiveness/communication with customers. Take one of those away and problems begin to arise, take two away and the business will be in real trouble.
An owner/proprietor can choose how to operate and can utilize practices that do not let them become a victim to outside influences that affect the three legs of the stool. Those practices often include organization, prioritization, and hard work. Problems arise in any business and the effectiveness of how those are handled often determines the success of the business. One thing is for sure, the customers have the final vote.
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OP...Don't buy from small manf in Florida. Problem solved....
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@chrisoshea I certainly won’t be buying from RAL and recommend others don’t as well…..but that doesn’t solve my problem of getting my hostage released back to me.
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