Raven Audio Soniquil Cables: Misrepresented Build & Tarnishing Connectors?

Were these cables purchased directly or from an authorized dealer?

Rhodium plated brass are two poor metals for audio conductors. Those setscrews are likely steel.  

@cleeds  I purchased them directly through the manufacturer's website. 

@carlsbad2 Yes, I'm sure you're right. That's partly why I'm upset that they're not what they are advertised to be.

noryx 

I purchased them directly through the manufacturer's website. 

You did not even remotely get what they advertised or what you paid for.

I'd request a refund.

@noryx  sorry to hear and more importantly see this. Yes you got what you paid for their workmanship and materials. Looks like I'll be staying away from Raven Audio. 

Lets not bash Raven too badly. These cables are currently on sale for $184/pr.

As for the soldered vs non-soldered, it is a good practice to have a good mechanical contact before soldering. When new, the good mechanical contact may be better than soldered.

Are we sure that their website always said "soldered"? 

jerry

If you look at the link, yes, Raven states they are soldered. Those are typical Chinese junk metal connectors. What a shame.

Will be interesting to see what support Raven offers.

On the other hand, it would be an easy fix to replace those with a better quality connector given they are note soldered.

@carlsbad2 Yes, I thought of that. I used the internet archive way back machine to check what the product page said back when I ordered them. I confirmed that it said the same thing back then as well.

I'm not stating that I can tell a difference in sound quality due to this issue. The problem here is just the misrepresention on the product page. I expect to get what I ordered, regardless of whether the sound quality will be different.

I own the same cables - I use them for my AVR and manually swap them with my 2 channel cables routinely so they get way more wear and tear than most - they are not tarnished at all. I don't really want to peel back the heat shrink to see how they are connected to the wire itself though.

How long ago did you purchase them? (mine are about 4 years old)

@macg19 I purchased mine 4 years ago as well. You don't have to peel back the sleeve to check though. You will be able to feel the round indent of the set screw through the sleeve if it is there. For mine, I can even see the holes now that I know what they are.

There are no indents - having owned an Osprey, having multiple, long conversations with Dave and James, and purchasing several NOS tubes from Dave, I find it hard to believe there was any intentional misleading going on, especially for a low dollar product like their cables.

FWIW all Raven amps are supplied with the same power cables they sell online, not the $2 PC most others supply with their amps.     

@macg19 

There are no indents - having owned an Osprey, having multiple, long conversations with Dave and James, and purchasing several NOS tubes from Dave, I find it hard to believe there was any intentional misleading going on, especially for a low dollar product like their cables.

FWIW all Raven amps are supplied with the same power cables they sell online, not the $2 PC most others supply with their amps.     

I'm glad you've had a good experience with them. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt as well, but we'll see if I get a response.

I get your point of "why bother with the low dollar items" but this doesn't exactly build trust in the brand for me - regardless of whether it was intentional or not. I would not purchase another product from them without a reasonable explanation for why this happened, as this would just leave me wondering what other corners they might cutting.

I'll definitely you know if I hear back from Raven Audio.

Thanks, please reply to this tread with what you hear.  I have replied so that I will be notified.  TIA

Scientifically, brass and copper both are subject to discoloration from oxidation.  However, oxidation of these rhodium plated brass plugs is strange.  Stating the obvious, rhodium and gold are used for oxidation resistance while not affecting electron transfer.  While brass is a less expensive option that does not transfer electrons as well as OCC and OFC four nines copper, the brass is more resistant to discoloration from oxidation than copper due to zinc in the alloy.  If you are a boomer like me, think of the rot cars used to get after a few years compared to today.  The reduction in car rot (steel oxidation) is due to zinc phosphate.  I have only used Furutech rhodium plated OCC/OFC connectors and I have no experience with this cable brand.  Others post good experiences.  I have not experienced oxidation of Furutech connectors.  So, from a quality engineering perspective, potential causes could be:

1. A plating processing problem at the manufacturer. Either the coating thickness is off or the plating process parameters were not in validated ranges.  
2. Issues with the brass base material.  The lot of brass (termed a heat lot in metal production) may have produced material not specification or at the upper or lower tolerances, causing it to be subject to a faster rate of oxidation.  For example, a lower level of zinc.  
3. Ware from use (plugging/unplugging often).  
4. Chemical reaction with contact cleaning/enhancing or oxidation removers. 
5. Inadequate male/female connection under high current, causing heat that, in turn, accelerates oxidation.   

I hope this helps you prepare for your discussion with Raven so that they do not attempt to make this your problem and not theirs.  

Raven uses connectors made by an outside supplier. Just make Raven aware of it, as you are trying, and they will most likely send you replacement ones for free. They may even offer to replace for you. The connector supplier at that time most likely had a production issue unknown to Raven.

Screw on connectors can and do sound great as copper sounds better than solder 🙂. Raven may just have missed the “solder” copy on the site and just needs to update. I am assuming the best of Raven at this point until they earn a different approach. Good luck.

If I had to guess, I would say that Raven outsources these to a third party to be manufactured.  The third-party likely cut corners to increase profit and Raven did not spot check the delivered cables as part of QA best practices.  It would be interesting to know where the cables were made and who actually made the cables.  

Pretty interesting how some folks are making all kinds of excuses for a manufacturer that, until proven otherwise, misrepresents its products.

Maybe soon it's gonna be OP's fault.

I have learned that assuming the worst is not the most productive way to resolve business or relational issues. However, please know I found  your post rather funny!

@devinplombier 

Pretty interesting how some folks are making all kinds of excuses for a manufacturer that, until proven otherwise, misrepresents its products.

Here in the USA, folks are innocent until proven guilty. I based my favorable comments based on my actual experience with the Company purchasing a $5K amp + various cables. 

Maybe soon it's gonna be OP's fault.

That is funny.

OP, have you called them or just emailed? If not, I'd call them. They are a small company and the main guys also run other businesses.

@grannyring @macg19 

Gentlemen, your joint point about the goodness and wisdom of extending the benefit of the doubt is well taken. 

However, the manufacturer here was remiss on at least two counts:

- If they're going to have goods made in China because they're too cheap to make them in the US, that's fine. However, they need to deploy QC, both in-country and at home on finished goods, that's commensurate to Chinese manufacturers' notorious propensity to cut corners whenever you're not looking. Apparently they did not do that.

- OP contacted them about receiving goods that are (a) different from the ones advertised (set screws vs expertly soldered, wtf that even means), and (b) of inferior quality to boot (rhodium should not tarnish). The only correct response was: "Yes, Sir, we will have a new pair shipped to you immediately at no charge and may I have your shipping address please?" They did not do that either. Had they, OP would be raving about Raven right now, instead of posting his unfortunate tale of woe on Audiogon for all to read.

But there's always more than one side to every story, and I for one would be curious to hear the manufacturer's 🙂

@devinplombier agree that the OP needs to hear back from Raven. If not, then things change for sure. 

I'm just posting so I can get the scuttlebutt when he hears something!

Thanks @jsalerno277  for the detailed info. I'll definitely keep that info in mind when I get in touch with the manufacturer.

 @macg19  & @grannyring  I agree with your sentiment - I'm not assuming that it's intentional. At the same time, I also agree with @devinplombier that it's ultimately Raven's responsibility to ensure that what they send me is what was advertised. My feelings about the company as a whole are not set in stone yet, so it'll just come down to the response I get from them.

@macg19 So far I just emailed them. I wanted to give them a few days to reply, but I appreciate the note about a phone call being more efficient. I will give them a call tomorrow.

@grannyring......a lesson in class.  Thank you, something that we can all do better with.

As this thread progresses I'm reminded of Hanlon's razor:  Don't assume malice (or evil) when the facts can be explained by incompetence (or stupidity).  

Incompetence might be a strong word as grannyring has pointed out several ways the misrepresentation could have been unintentional.

Jerry

The manufacturer's response to OP, if and when it comes, will certainly help clarify what really took place.

Maybe OP used the cable to snake a neighbor's toilet in a pinch, and the Drano stripped off the rhodium plating and tarnished the connectors.

One should not rush to judgement. This may yet turn out to be a Rashomon-like tale.