B&W 802 d4 with Tube Amplifier

Try it and see if you like it.

mc901 monos

Russ, great feedback thanks!

Again, if anyone has had personal experiences with driving b&w 800 series speakers with tube amps I’d love to hear and discuss your thoughts!  

I sold a client the 802D2 and Ref75 and it was a fantastic combo. He had a decent sized dedicated room (approx 15 x 20) so volume wasn’t an issue. I think in a big room the amp may struggle a bit but I know the D4 is more efficient than the D2 versions so give it a try.

As usual for me, I gave an over simplified answer. There is so much unknown. Your music preferences, your loudness levels, your room, etc. If you like a loudspeaker system, you might have to try some things to make it work its best, sometimes that gets expensive. What works for one person might not work for you. The ARC is a good piece and the 802s are a good system. With the right preamp you have a good chance of success. Totally worth a try and a long evaluation.  

I can speak as to the difficulty of driving the 802 series. The ARC will drive them but not drive them properly. The diamond series are power pigs, and it takes a lot of juice to drive them. I love B&Ws, but solid state is the way to go with them. 

Had been running (87dB) B&W Matrix 801 Series 2 with North Creek crossovers for 20 years with a Jon Soderberg modified Threshold Stasis 2 putting out about 225 watts per channel until replacing the Threshold with custom built Charlie Cocci Ultimate monoblocks; 2x6BL7 +4xKT77, about 100 watts each.  The tube amps absolutely kill the Threshold in every category, including loudness and bass response...gained at least 1/2 octave of bass extension with the Ultimates.

Don't belive the myth that big B&Ws need big solid state amplification.  Not only is it a myth, it's wrong.

I recently changed my amplifier from a 150 watt pre/power hybrid to a 40 watt tube amp.  The tube amp drives my 89dB/4 Ohm Audio Physic speakers at least as well as the hybrid, with better bass and soundstage. 

I’m running my 802d3s with mono mc275s and love it, also running 804d3s with vintage mc60s - both sound fabulous and the tubes really warm up the rather bright high end in my opinion

Years ago I was auditioning the new-ar-the-time 804S (no D tweeter then) with McIntosh pre, tubed MC275 mkIV and a SS Mac rated 250 Wpc. I preferred the tubed MC275, which I still own. But it is my understanding larger B&W do open up with more power. At the same store they had 802D with very large tube amps.

FWIW I auditioned ARC ref75 (not with the 804S) and wasn't my kind of sound, so what I liked might not be what you are after.

I would take a look at the better GaN amps ike Audions.

I took a look at the measurements in the Stereophile review from 2005.

With sensitivity at 89-90dB these are not as inefficient as many similar designs.

But impedence is below 4 ohms and down to 3 pretty much all the way from 80Hz to 800Hz.  This will be a tough load to drive for a medium size tube amp.

John Atkinson adds:  In addition, the very high peak impedence between 2 and 3kHz, resulting from the tweeter/midrange crossover, will give a somewhat forward tonal balance with amplifiers having a significant source impedance; say, tube models.

Definitely do an extended trial in your room before buying.

Clearthinker….this seems like the key data, thanks!  I might drag the amp to my dealer to listen to how the 802d4s sound with my ARC.   Im sure it’ll be amazing but expect I won’t get the open and lively soundstage without high current solid state.  We’ll see!!  At 30k not sure I can find a full range speaker like these….Wilson seems to be the next best choice but double the price. 

I might drag the amp to my dealer to listen to how the 802d4s sound with my ARC.

Bingo! The 802s drop to 3 Ohm minimum in upper bass/lower mids that will challenge a tube amp for sure, and if they’re like the 804s they may have difficult phase angles on top of it. Just because you can drive them with a tube amp doesn’t mean you should. The two potential negatives are the amp can’t optimally drive the speakers, and if the tube amp has to work hard you aren’t getting its best performance either — lose lose. While you’re there I’d have them demo the speakers with a suitable SS amp (preferably not Mac — you won’t like it coming from ARC) and see what you think.

Or, why not just keep your wonderful amp and choose speakers that pair well with it? There are TONS of other options out there that’d be a better fit. B&Ws are good, but they ain’t that good. Check out Joseph Audio, Vandersteen, ProAc, or Verity Audio, all of which are easier to drive, and personally I’d take any of them over B&W but that’s me. Point is, there are excellent options out there so why try to drive the square peg into the round hole? Just my $0.02 FWIW. Best of luck.

@xenolith 

"Don't belive the myth that big B&Ws need big solid state amplification.  Not only is it a myth, it's wrong."

Not a myth, a fact. I have been there and done that! Yes, you had a great experience with 100W. You don't think 600W monoblocks would drive the big B&Ws better? I have never been to a dealer who powers them with anything under 200W. Most of the time is a big pair of monoblocks (necessary to demonstrate what those speakers can do.)

There exists a dichotomy between driving a speaker and driving a speaker well. Subconsciously, we debate this, but many times, we do not address it. 

@xenolith,

picked up a pair of Matrix 801 v2 today for a song. Drivers perfect and cabinets are very clean but could definitely be sanded and re oiled. Damn. I’m impressed! I don’t think they have had anything done to them but not sure. Do you have a contact for the people that did your crossovers? 
 

thanks