Phantom Supreme to 4Point-14?


I'm considering it. Who's done it and what did you think? Members who've heard a head-to-head comparison are also welcome to chime in.

The turntable is an SP10R in Artisan Fidelity plinth. Cartridges at this point are an mainlyan A90 and Benz Ebony TR, but I'm planning for a MSL Gold or Platinum sometime down the road.

Thanks.

wrm57

I concur, Thom Mackris is one of the best in the business. He’ll give you an honest opinion, but I still say the answer to your question is cartridge dependent.

Lewm, Thom agrees with you. I just got off the phone with him. Great guy. And like many wise heads in this thread, he gently argued against per-record VTA changes. Then he gave up. :)

@wrm57 , Did Thom have any tonearm suggestions?

Wally tools are overall very good. I use the Skater and Reference. I also have a very modified Wallyscope which is really a lab grade Amscope USB microscope on a highly modified microscope stage. I also use a SmarTractor which, IMHO, is the best protractor for old eyes. It is also killer for mounting tonearms. 

wrm, This is in no way an insult to you. It is a design issue all humans have to one degree or another. When it comes to very minor differences our minds can play tricks on us. This is so true about slight changes in VTA. Changes in VTA affect high frequencies. As the contact point of fine line styluses changes VTA  it disengages from high frequency modulations first. The thinner the contact point the higher the frequency affected. Modern styluses can easily read 50 kHz you would have to tilt them five degrees to have any effect on audible frequencies. You are hearing what you expect to hear unless you are comically off 93 degrees. You have to prove this to your self which is not easy to do. I did it by making digital recordings at different angles so I could make instant AB comparisons with my wife doing the switching. Now, I set my cartridges up under magnification so the VTA is as accurate as you can get it. In many instances the real VTA may be far enough off that a one degree change might make a difference. I suspect this is part of the reason for this insanity. The first thing to do is make sure you have a very accurate way to set VTA. If you have an MSL, Lyra or upper model Ortofon you can assume the angles are right on and you can use a Wally Reference. I cannot speak for other high end cartridges as I have not examined them. I can also say that the Soundsmith Voice and Clearaudio Charsma were built correctly so I suspect their other higher end cartridges are also.  Other than those the only way to be sure is with a microscope. Using just your eyes can be very tricky because the contact line might not be central on the stylus. With the Replicant 100 it is more towards the rear and hard to see. 

In short, give yourself an accurate way of setting VTA then set it and forget it. 

I am not a fan of "S" shaped tonearms. It adds unnecessary mass and inertia to a tonearm. I am extremely minimalist when it comes to tonearms, less is better. I do not want any contacts between the cartridge clips and the RCAs at the phono stage end. No VTA towers or hanging strings, no elaborate head shells.  

@mijostyn , I greatly appreciate your thoughtful post.

I take your advice about VTA seriously and without offense. If it's a delusion, it is a persistent one, decades long, but perhaps confirmation bias is operating in more ways than one. I'm going to try again with my current arms to see if I can be satisfied with a happy median VTA. It would certainly open some doors.

Maybe, too, it's time to set VTA with a microscope and see what's what. I doubt I'm comically off but there's one way to find out. Do you like the WallyScope? Seems pricey but perhaps justifiably so. Other recommendations for a scope with good software for drawing and measuring angles would be greatly appreciated.

Over the course of a very long conversation, Thom was remarkably careful about specific arm recommendations, probably because he shares @lewm's caveat about cartridge and table synergy with any arm. The custom (as opposed to commercial) Schoeders came up a few times, as did the Kuzma 4P-9. For my Technics plinth he thought his hybrid 11 would be great option, if I could get over the VTA thing. If you're unaware, he mounts an 11 armtube on a 9 base, and does so with Frank's blessing and apparently good results. Given the 18g eff mass of the 4P-11, he thought the 19g of the 4P-14 was a misprint on the Kuzma website, so he is emailing Frank for confirmation. I mentioned the Triplanar 12 and he deflected it. MSL is a fairly new line for him, so his hands-on experience with them is in the early stages.

@wrm57 , I currently use a Schroder CB 9" and am very happy with it. I have talked with Frank by email on several occasions. The very longest he recommends is 11" and no longer. It is a wonderful design and IMHO the perfect pivoted offset arm. It hits all the important design criteria I have.

As for the Wallyscope that is a conversation I would rather have privately as it is a long one. Mine really is no longer a Wallyscope. It is an MS Tool and Woodcraft one off design. Message me and we will talk. 

Yes, you have to make sure your VTA is set correctly or all bets are off. You also need a way to remove any personal bias from the equation and that is not easy.  If you currently have a VTA tower and can adjust it on the fly without disturbing the turntable have someone else do the adjusting while you sit in the listening chair. They should also keep a record of the results to show you.