There was a time when the pop tunes of the day were either in a jazz style or were taken by jazz players and turned into jazz standards. Here is a modern pop tune done as a jazz instrumental. It is a staple of WBGO's playlist. Wonderful time feel and always puts a smile on my face. Love it! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEweV0eScg |
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The great thing about jazz is that no matter how many times you have heard certain records, they can still stand "one mo listen"; that's the case with "Haute Mon" duets. Another album is "Soul Brothers": Ray Charles – piano, electric piano, alto saxophone Milt Jackson – piano, vibraphone Billy Mitchell – tenor saxophone Connie Kay – drums Oscar Pettiford – bass Skeeter Best – guitar Kenny Burrell – guitar But with a cast like that, what could go wrong; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnID70IU-gEnjoy the music. |
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******Can anyone tell which of the Sonny's plays on the clip?***** Rok says "I can", (as he sheepishly raises his hand). I youtubed it, and all was revealed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFcP1oRmcsGreat tune. Drums and bass very prominent. :) Cheers |
Catching up on some musical offerings.
Dizzy Gillespie "Duets": Nice! Dizzy and two of my favorite tenor players; Stitt and Rollins. What could possibly go wrong? Just for fun and not a criticism at all since its a pretty common thing: I would bet my copy of Miles "Kind of....." Wait! I already have that set aside for previous bets 😉. How about Oliver Nelson "Blues ATAT"? My original Impulse copy to bet that the inclusion of "Haut Bon" cut for Dizzy's "Duets" record went something like this: Nearing the end of the session and the producer says: "We're a little short of material; how about a blues". Ray Bryant starts tinkling that repeated little theme on the piano in the key of G and the other players join in. Tape is rolling. Basically a jam for filler. Great stuff 'though. For even more fun: the picture of the record cover is a little misleading. The title of the record is "Duets" yet the picture shows Dizzy playing with both Sonny's. Can anyone tell which of the Sonny's plays on the clip?
Cuban music clips: Great! I love this stuff. Close to home and most of it on those clips is the real deal.
Shankar: Not my cup of tea. She sure is pretty and she is definitely capitalizing on that fact in her performance. Not a fan of this type of watered down ethnic music. In this case it's neither Flamenco nor Indian Classical. Not that I don't like fusion; I do. I just don't think this is very good. Certainly pleasant, but not very good. I think it's fair to say that of the two female Shankar siblings, Norah is the talent. How many times can she play the same lick on the sitar? Jeez! |
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Cachao:
I agree, call it what you will, it's great playing and beautiful music.
Cuba:
I think some people find it hard, to see such a beautiful tropical paradise like Cuba, as a deadly Stalinist dictatorship, but that's exactly what it is. As bad as any in the former Eastern European communist bloc. Castro's flamboyant personality, the diversity of the people, the Cuban Musical scene, and their love of Baseball, are big reasons for this misconception. As strange as this might seem.
But, I am confident, relations with the U.S., will be the beginning of the regime's downfall.
Cheers |
Frogman, there is a lot more "justice" now than there was before the revolution. |
"Segue" - (in music) to proceed without pause from one musical theme or number to another. - A smooth transition.
Given recent commentary and the main topic of this thread, the Cachao "Master Sessions" clip is probably as perfect a segue as is possible.
Cachao (Israel Lopez), along with Lecuona, Brauer, More, D'Rivera to name a few, is one of the names that one thinks of when one thinks about Cuban music. Of the same stature in that music as Gershwin, Parker, etc. are in American music. A brilliant classically trained bassist from a family of bassists (!), he was also a composer of over 3000 pieces in the traditional Cuban "danzon" style which is the style most represented in this recording "Master Sessions Vol. 1". Importantly, he was responsible for the creation of the popular "mambo" style; similar to danzon, but at a slower tempo. The importance of Cachao in Cuban music is huge.
I don't mean to bring up the subject of politics again, and apologies for doing so, but Rok's perfect segue makes it almost impossible to not point out that Cachao left Cuba for the USA in order to escape the oppression of an ideology that is, in many respects, the ultimate expression of the opposite of the debated "greatness" of the USA. He is an outspoken critic of that ideology which while professing to want to help the poor, completely controls their lives, denies freedom of speech (and much worse), and keeps them in an equal (ity), but decidedly needy and deprived state; certainly as compared to what the "poor" experience in this country. Enough of that and back to music.
"Master Sessions Vol. 1". Love that record and have owned it since its release and its award of a Grammy. It not only covers many of the traditional styles of Cuban music, especially "danzon", which shaped what modern Cuban music (salsa, timba) is today, but is a great example of the breadth of Cachao's musical persona with elements of the traditional, of Classical music (intro to "Lluvia"), a bit of the modern, and features some fabulous playing. Is it Jazz? Not in the usual sense. If the question must be asked, I would say the answer is in another question: Is Ragtime jazz? If we can call modern Cuban music "Latin Jazz" then I think the Ragtime question applies. From a chronological standpoint and looking at all the styles that shaped what we now can agree is (American) "Jazz", then yes it's Latin Jazz. There is certainly a lot of improvisation in the instrumental solos and in the vocal call-and-response. Ultimately, the label doesn't matter; great music it is. For an interesting, subtle, but very telling example of how jazz and the tradition of this music come together listen to the horn solos on "Mi Guajira". The trumpet and trombone players are clearly more steeped in the traditional Cuban style of phrasing, less "swing" (in the usual sense) and an almost conversational style, while the tenor player's style, from his tone to the bending of notes suggests a leaning toward the Jazz side of things.
Great clip. Thanks! |
Our house is the one with the big turkey and the feast. That's been going on so long that those who were kids have teenagers of their own whose names I can't remember. When I meet one face to face, I'll mumble what I think is their name, and they'll smile, but I also detect a grin at a private joke (he can't remember my name).
In regard to political issues, this gathering is no different from this forum; we don't agree, but we knew that before they came, although this is only since Obama was elected.
The very best thing about this Thanksgiving is: after I said the blessing, I found a comfortable spot outside all traffic lanes, and stayed there the entire evening, while guests made themselves at home, and to my amazement they had no problem with that.
We'll look to Frogman for musical direction.
Enjoy the music.
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Speaking of Bass Players. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C154ptSqPooA reviewer years ago, said I had to have this. He was right! I love this. I won't call it Jazz, remembering the 'Buena Vista Ruckus'. The prudent thing to do, is to refer and defer to The Frogman. Cheers I wish the Blue Note method of listing the personnel and instrument played, had been standardized across all record labels. |
****Does this mean he has to play more? He was playing almost non-stop.****
Not necessarily. It is possible to achieve the same thing with very economical use of notes. It's about choosing the right notes in an extremely logical and creative way to create a solo that is, at once, melodic and outlines the harmony of of the tune. That's the art and genius of players like Sonny. I'm sure he could do it with few notes, but the guy obviously has a lot to say 😎 |
Thanks for the good wishes O-10; ditto. |
O-10:
Your reading assignment -- Ayn Rand.
Cheers |
*****Then they graduated to attempts at melodic solos and the results were often a lot of out of tune and even wrong notes******
You have no idea how glad I am to hear you say this. I thought some how, I was lacking in appreciation.
Cheer |
Happy Thanksgiving to Aficionados everywhere. Watching the parade from NYC. The Big Apple Looking Good!
*****how the drum solo on your Rollins clip does not interrupt the flow; Pete La Roca was a fabulous drummer. ******
I noticed this. I remember thinking when I heard the Rollins clip, "well that shoots my drum/bass thing to hell".
*****One of the few musicians who could pull off playing in a piano-less setting. *****
Does this mean he has to play more? He was playing almost non-stop.
Thanks for all the Music info.
Cheers |
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Btw, you made an interesting commnent in a recent post about how you feel drum or bass solos " interrupt the flow of the music". It is often true. Not because it's drums or bass per se, but because the players of those instruments have traditionally been almost exclusively in the role of time keeper and simply haven't developed as melodists. That has changed a lot in recent times as bass players became more facile and technically and harmonically more advanced. Remember the days when all a bass player could do was play a "walking bass" solo? Basically the same thing that they would do while keeping time for a horn norm piano player. Then they graduated to attempts at melodic solos and the results were often a lot of out of tune and even wrong notes; often painful to listen to. Btw, you made an interesting commnent in a recent post about how you feel drum or bass solos " interrupt the flow of the music". It is often true. Not because it's drums or bass per se, but because the players of those those instruments have traditionally been almost exclusively in the role of time keeper and simply haven't developed as melodists. That has changed a lot in recent times as bass players became more facile and technically and harmonically more advanced. Remember the days when all a bass player could do was play a "walking bass" solo; basically the same thing that would do while keeping time for a horn norm piano player. Then they graduated to attempts at melodic solos and the results were often a lot of out of tune and even wrong notes; often painful to listen to. Now we have virtuosic bass players who can improvise with the same technical facility as horn players. Same thing for drummers, but even more of a challenge since the drums are not a melody instrument. Btw, also why, as you pointed out, they were seldom band leaders. A band leader needs to have knowledge and command of the melody and harmony side of things and not just of rhythm in order to be effective as a leader. A restaurant which has a great chef is doomed if that chef, who can't add and subtract, tries to also be the book keeper. Some drummers (Max Roach) will actually tune their drums to specific pitches in order to bring melody to the drum solo. Speaking of musical flow, notice ,how the drum solo on your Rollins clip does not interrupt the flow; Pete La Roca was a fabulous drummer. Some favorite Sonny: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gActLqZZX68Check out the bass solo! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DTR0I7xhA |
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Sonny Rollins: fabulous!! And yes surprisingly neglected here. One of the few musicians who could pull off playing in a piano-less setting. Such is the command of the harmony and there is so much logic and clarity to the improvisation that it makes it easy to follow the harmonic progression of the tune without the piano to spell it out. His rhythmic authority is fantastic. Some musicians have the ability to play so "in the pocket" that the rhythm section plays to their rhythmic pull and not the other way around. Louis Armstrong had it, Ray Charles had it and Sonny Rollins has it. |
O-10, I am not about to engage in a protracted discussion of these issues on this thread. All I can say at this point about those clips is that propaganda takes many forms and that Bernie Sanders is a fool (which I already knew). Now, let's take a look at why this discussion got even this far. From someone who you have previously accused of "spreading discontent":
I make what I would consider a positive, optimistic comment about this country while acknowledging that there are still many problems and that mistakes have been made. Still, I consider it a great country in spite of those negatives. I also point to my feeling that Jazz (Coltrane's "Blue Trane" in particular) is one of its contributions and one of the reasons that it is a great country. You had three choices at that point: 1. You could have ignored my comment. 2. You could have acknowledged that, particularly now, during the Thanksgiving season, there is always room for a bit of positive outlook on just about any issue; or, 3. You could "disagree 300%" and take the issue into the realm of "injustice" and the condemnation of the "college educated". Obviously, you are free to take anyone of those choices; but, let's be clear: who is it that is spreading discontent? More importantly: where, exactly, is the disagreement?
I think it's fair to say that we would both agree that there are problems and that this country has made mistakes. I also think it's fair to say that Jazz, the subject of this thread, is one of this country's greatest artistic contributions. So, what is left? The idea that this is a great country. With all due respect, anyone who can't recognize that this country is, in spite of all its problems and ample room for improvement, a great country is, just like Bernie Sanders, foolish.
It is unfortunate that some will not have a Happy Thanksgiving as you suggest. Unfortunate, because there is always something to be thankful for. Happy Thanksgiving. |
The Poor: The Bible says there will always be poor folks. This can be considered as a 'case closed' statement. Poverty is an important, even vital part of the Capitalistic system. It's to Capitalism, what Hell is, to religion. If the government and private groups were not helping the poor, there would not be so many of them. The U.S. is the most generous country on Earth. Government and People. Government Statistics say: (1) If you finish High School (2) Don't have any children out of wedlock (3) Don't have any children before age 20 You will not be poor. Not a very high bar for conduct at all. I guess these days we should add drug use. Now, you make the moral case, for the Government taking money from some people, and giving it to other able bodied people, because I can't. And, the welfare state has destroyed millions of families in this country. The consequences of which we see everyday in places like Chicago and ST Louis. My thoughts on Government help are sort of like the old blues song, you should have to be Blind, Crippled or Crazy. Cheers BTW, listened to this today. An artist that has been solely neglected on this thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-bGVsANv3g |
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O-10, hyperbole about the merits of Santeria dance is fairly innocuous and easily overlooked; hyperbole about issues that are relevant and crucial to a way of life so many in this country take for granted needs to be called out. Big Brother (whoever that is) can listen all he wants. As I get older I find I need to call out comments like "(we have) nothing for the poor". Imperfect and fraught with problems, yes; but, this country still offers more and more opportunity for the poor than just about any other. The real problem in this country is that so many view the wealth of some as what they don't have, instead of as what they could have; if wealth is a goal. As someone who has experienced and lived both sides of the coin, all I can say is "try the other side for a while, and then get back to me"
Happy Thanksgiving to all. |
Frogman and Rok, I disagree 300% with the both of you. What's wrong with this country is highly intelligent, college educated men going around with "sunshine glasses", when we have welfare for corporations, but nothing for the poor, that's economic injustice; however, I don't advise openly taking my view because "big brother" is watching and listening. Now back to our regular program; "speaking of sunshine", Charenee Wade brings me sunshine. "Ackman" originally brought this to my attention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JabrQh5vql4Enjoy the music. |
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One of best examples of the reasons that this country (America), with all its problems, is so great: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ETT6n1GluwQIf you only listen to one cut, listen to this one. Coltrane's sound is like a ray of sunshine: searching, hopeful; quintessentially American and, in some ways a product of the very mistakes that were made. Forgive the political slant, but with everything that is going on in the world, in my opinion it's important to remember the good and why we should preserve its values. Rather appropriate title as well, I would say. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HNnM2iRwHLE |
Harold Land:
I posted that CD not long ago. Do you people read my posts?
But you are right on target about Land.
Cheers |
Katherine Dunham:
Very impressive lady. Her attitude is so reminiscent of the adults I knew while growing up in Mississippi.
I noticed that the interviewer tried her best to get Miss Dunham to wallow in self-pity, but she did not go there. Thereby frustrating the poor thing.
We could use more people like her today. She set her sights / goals, and then achieved greatness, apparently without even noticing or acknowledging any obstacles.
She was a DOER, not a WHINER.
Great story. Thanks for posting.
Cheers |
Masekela Piece:
As one reviewer said,"a feast for the eyes", and for my ears because I love Masekela's music. But the story meant nothing to me. I am getting a little weary of the never ending whining about that damn 'coal train'. I don't think he has made a CD without the coal train tune on it.
You would think with what's going on in Africa today, there would be bigger fish to fry. But as usual, if it can't be blamed on white folks, it's not a problem.
Nice to look at, buyt can't hold a candle to the Wynton / Carmen piece. As always, IMHO.
Nice post
Cheers |
I didn't realize Wynton Marsalis was part of the tribute.. This should have been your first post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPDo7l1aOfAWynton and Carmen Delavallade: This is dance. I can connect with this. This is awesome! Only let down by piss-poor camera work. Miss Carmen is a stone Fox. What sensual moves! It's a wonder poor Wynton could concentrate on his nuts and bolts. And Wynton's playing was just PERFECT. Is there anything this guy cannot do? So you see, there is no need for you to go running off to Africa and all that mindless and constant jumping around nonsense. The real talent is right here. Great Post Cheers |
Nice clips O-10, that music is classic. Thanks. |
Rok, if you go back to 11-22-15, tribute to Katherine Dunaham, and let the program run all the way through until it stops, you will make several amazing discoveries.
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Rok, Harold Land has been with me every since this never ending journey began in Chicago at my cousins apartment. This was like in 56, and he had every boss jazz LP that was recorded up until that time. Although I've tried hard to duplicate his collection, it's impossible; but Brown and Roach with Harold Land are available. My favorite cut on that LP was "Delilah". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt_fmhtePocEnjoy the music. |
Drum Suite:
Excellent playing. Percussion is much more prominent, appropriate and indigenous in Latin Jazz. Which is what this LP sounds like, rather than African.
There a reason so few Jazz group leaders are Drummers or Bassists. I always considered drum and bass solos to be interruptions to the flow of the music.
If you play drums or bass and want to be leader, you better be able to compose. IMHO of course. :)
Cheers |
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O-10, I admire your interest and passion for native art forms and how you bring it into these discussions; I too appreciate and enjoy much of it. However, and with all due respect, to suggest that Santeria dance is as structured as, say, George Balanchine's choreography seems a bit of a stretch. Rok, while I suspect that while we probably draw the dividing line between "like" and "no like" as concerns Miles and Trane growth at different points in the chronology, I basically agree with your sentiments. I like all of Miles' music from the standpoint of the fascinating development of him as an artist. I "like" much of his later stuff inasmuch as I respect it because I hear and appreciate that development and the natural progression of his musical persona and the whole inevitability of it. I can listen to mid-late 60s Miles all day; I love it. His later stuff is a different story. Once in a while I will sit and listen to something like Bitches Brew like it sometimes and other times I appreciate it primarily from the vantage point of: "it's so obvious that this is where he was headed" or, "it's so obvious that because of this (Bitches Brew) we now have X,Y or Z". Do I like it always; no way. The same goes for Trane. I think the Miles "sweet spot", for me, is that 60s band with Shorter, Hancock etc. Perfect balance between the more traditional bop thing and the more intellectual and sophisticated harmonic language; not to mention the sheer virtuosity. This clip kills me everytime; to think that Tony Williams was 17 years old!!!: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_whk6m67VE |
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Jazz Player Growth: As an artist moves on, they lose some fans, and gain new ones. I can imagine the frustration an artist feels when the public just wants to hear him play his sole 'mega-hit' every time he performs.
I continued to buy Miles and Trane even after I no longer liked their music. Always thought I would grow into it. I did to some extent. I always trusted the reviewers in Stereo Review.
Cheers |
Haiti Drum Ensemble: Nonsensical to this western brain. Again, what is this?
Dance Anthropology: Part of the attempt to create 'instant' culture and history. Usually out of thin air.
Beware of these folks who spend their lives trying to make Africa something it wasn't.
I bet you own every Olatunji record. :)
Cheers |
*****This dance in Cuba might to the uninitiated might look like flinging around and jumping to the beat, but it's just as structured as any European dance.******
Count me among the uninitiated.
*****but it's just as structured as any European dance.*****
Ballet is structured. No one can critique the Cuban dancer. Did she do it well? Who knows. As you said, she was just jumping around. The drumming was not related to what she was doing.
Cheers |
I think there is an important difference between a listener tiring of a certain style of music and an artist "tiring" of it because, as an artist, he/she needs to move forward and continue growing and evolving. Now, a case can easily be made for why that should also be the case for fans of a music, but the listener always has the luxury of being complacent; no great burden being a listener. Miles was the quintessential artist as far as this goes; always reaching and searching. Even when the listener does continue to stay lockstep with an artist's growth and evolution, the artist's previous work never stops being relevant. This was, IMO, possibly the greatest jazz band that ever was and is music that never stops being hip: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJq3j4rA0o0 |
When it came to jazz with an African twist, nobody could do it like "Art Blakey". Every time I see this LP cover, I know what I'm going to hear; the best African drumming in or out of Africa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu_L5CNlo60&list=PLAFA1557EAD0A6D6DDrumming in Africa was meant to go with dance, they had a different dance for everything, including religious worship and celebration. I had a friend who belonged to Katherine Dunham's dance troupe, and I saw them practice a lot. African drumming and dance go together like ham and eggs, once you get used to them together, you can't have one without the other; "Now that you've brought my ham, where's my eggs," or vice versa. This is my favorite number by my favorite African trumpet player, "Hugh Masekela". What we see here dramatizes "Stimela" in dance, I find it captivating. This choreography is a tribute to Kathryn Dunham". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SuwmE3JM0AHere we have the "authentic drumming" from Haiti. There is a sacred museum of sorts in Haiti where the curator has these sacred drumbeats from Africa that go back before slavery. They are stored in a kind of code; this drumming goes with the dance it's meant to accompany. In order to put the drum code and dance together, he would have to travel with you to Cuba and Brazil for sure, but they have to make a match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP0s9MBuoo&list=RDrqP0s9MBuoo#t=7 This dance in Cuba might to the uninitiated might look like flinging around and jumping to the beat, but it's just as structured as any European dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRNEVAzaX9sI suppose the Cuban dancers come closest to what I saw practiced by the Katherine Dunham dancers. No that's not a mismatch, Katherine was a dance "anthropologist", in addition to being a dance teacher. All of these dances originated in Africa where she studied. What I saw practiced by the Katherine Dunham dancers was better than anything I've seen at the movies or on television when it came to African dance. There was an exhibit with a long film of them practicing at the museum in St. Louis ages ago, and tears came to my eyes when I realized I was young lean and flexible, just like those dancers, when this was being filmed, and I recognized some of the dancers. Enjoy the music. |
Miles:
That could well be true. In my case, Bird and Dizzy were never on my list of favorite players. Sometimes these guys seemed to be playing the practice / exercise book. At least To my untrained/not-hip ear.
Corroboree:
Interesting, but a futile effort to save / preserve a doomed culture. That's the usual routine. Europeans come to a land, destroy the indigenous people, their culture, and the wildlife, then centuries later, go through all sort of BS to 'save' it. Miles was probably tired of that also.
NOTHING, survives contact with American(western european) culture. As soon as we see the Golden Arches in North Korea, victory will be complete.
Nice post. O-10 always aims to educate.
Cheers |
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Frogman and Rok, Miles said the same thing I said about his own music; I've been going through his autobiography trying to find his exact words, but he said he couldn't stand to play that kind of music anymore, the kind him, Bird, and Diz played. As I stated at the beginning, the music was off the "jazz reservation", but was intended to lead to the "aboriginal reservation". If you and Rok had gone on to "Corroboree", and not even stop at the end, but let "you tube" lead you on wherever it took you, then you would have discovered my intent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGD7nFKFen8Enjoy the Corroboree. |
This music made me laugh; a good thing. Not only is it not the music of the native people of Australia, it is like saying that because something uses a saxophone it is jazz. Kind of humorous in a way 'though. What's up with the barking? |
O-10:
You do have the most eclectic taste in music of anyone I know. Amazing.
However, this guy is a fraud. He is not an aborigine. The music he plays is not music of the native people of Australia. You should check these folks out, before you go out wandering in the outback. You might not be able to get back to St Louis.
I am glad you stated you were off the Jazz reservation. May have Prevented a 'ruckus'.
Cheers |
I won't comment on the Miles at the Blackhawk post since it has been deemed a "closed case"; other than to say that one of my favorite movies is "Ratatouille" 😉 |