Welcome Bob, look forward to further observations!
Rok, I am a big Harold Mabern fan…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMHUXiI9QbM
Rok, I am a big Harold Mabern fan…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMHUXiI9QbM
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,722 responses Add your response
From three of my most recent acquisitions. Gene harris -- FUNKY GENE"S I liked the track "Blues for Basie" the best, but could not find it on youtube. But anything this man plays is excellent. He is like Oscar in that respect. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3u-O9z4TJk[/url] Harold Mabern -- AFRO BLUE I saw this and thought it had Porter and Salvant. But it was Porter with Norah Jones, Kurt Elling and others. This was the best cut. Most of the other tunes were a little too NYC-ish for my taste. How could I see Jones and think Salvant. I think I have early on-set [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9DRVjHYpzw[/url] And, another one from the Cuba/Harlem. You can't listen to just one cut. :) [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IA8ZJREg0U[/url] Cheers |
O-10: Bird: I noticed that in Nica's book, many, many of the Jazz players, 'wished' they could play like Bird. I don't know if he had a 'patent' or not, but that's high praise from his peers. I would have thought most would have been too proud to say it. On 'Passport', it seems as if you can hear a little of the past, then he states the present/future. Cheers |
Rok, a recording studio can be a performance venue just like any other. Some studios present concerts with small audiences and radio station "studios" might broadcast performances taking place in-house. Additionally, a performance may be recorded in a studio (with or without an audience) with no processing or editing involved and with all the musicians in the same space as opposed to being separated in different booths for purposes of isolation. From those standpoints a performance may be said to be "live" in studio. ****Bird's" patent on Bop is encoded in the music, and he took it to the grave with him. **** - O-10 O-10, I hope you are not suggesting that no one played bebop after Bird passed 😎. |
Rok, that was a fine contribution, and I enjoyed every last minute. Did you know there are those who can not distinguish between notes played very fast and "Bird's Best Bop"? When you told me, (and I knew you would) that you liked what you heard, I knew you were not one of those who can not distinguish between notes played very fast, and "Bird's Best Bop" "Bird's" patent on Bop is encoded in the music, and he took it to the grave with him. A lot of people think that playing jazzy notes real fast is "Be Bop", but it ain't. While I can clearly hear the difference, I can't explain it because I'm not a musician. I think it's been stated that if I learned something about music, I could explain such things. If that's what it takes, count me out; God created those who play music, and those who listen to the music they play; I know my place in the Universe, I'm a born listener. Enjoy the music. |
Hi everybody!! I've just recently joined this forum while looking for some new speakers. I ran across this thread almost two hours ago. I'm still here and want to contribute something. My main gig is sales and marketing. My other life is as a jazz musician, (or, because this is a small town, the symphony, blues, funk or country. ((but I freakin' hate the country gigs))) I fell into jazz at about 15 years of age. My parents asked me if I wanted to go with them to hear Oscar Peterson. I said yes. I said yes not because I liked his music. In fact, I didn't like it at all. My parents had a bunch of jazz records and none of the songs sounded to me like the musicians knew where they were going. It was just a jumbled mess of notes. But I knew he was famous, an old guy and would probably die soon, so I went to the concert. This was about 1966-67. Anybody over 40 was pretty much an old guy. I was 14-15 years old. We went to the gig. As it turned out, it was a solo performance. The room held maybe 300 people. Nice, intimate and we had an excellent view of his hands. Anybody that knows the music of Oscar Peterson knows that he has a blindingly fast right hand and that his left hand is equally as fast, and can play off the right in such a way that sometimes you think that there are actually two piano players. Anyway, here he is playing his stuff. It's not that good. (at least to my 15 year old ears). At one point he does the super fast right and left hand thing and I can tell he's going out of time. I thought, Okay, he's going out of time, but he's an old guy so that's okay. He was not going out of time. I'd just never had to listen to music that "hard" before. I became obsessed with understanding his music and bang; I was a jazzhead. Still am. At some point in my life I can't remember I began to look for odd meter tunes. I think some tunes are written in odd meters just because the musicians can play them. Some others work. And work really well. Here is one of my favorites, and my first contribution to this most excellent thread; Cannonball Adderly playing 74 Miles Away. I had the privilege of seeing this live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpV67Mgsl0 Thank you all for a wonderful thread. Bob |
Today's Listen: Manhattan School of Music Afro-Cuban Jazz Orchestra -- QUE VIVA HARLEM [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtbsMXGcums[/url] This is just great. And these are supposed to be students!! No filler here, all the tunes will hold your interest. These guys, and one girl, on trumpet, can play!! Includes tunes by Ellington and Strayhorn. Sales help support youngsters in Jazz. Buy It!!! Maybe Wynton and the guys should be looking over their shoulders. Cheers |
O-10, believe it or not, there is an on-line resource for finding out what you ask. Note that, as is often the case, there are two versions of the orchestration for that show. One is for a smaller orchestra which uses one woodwind doubler; the other version for larger orchestra using four doublers. It is interesting that the production you saw used a doubler that played oboe as neither of the original rentable orchestrations include oboe. It is not unheard of for the score to be re-orchestrated for regional productions of musicals. It is also possible that the doubler hired for that particular production happened to play oboe and it was decided to http://shows.bretpimentel.com/ |
Frogman, something went wrong with that link, but here is the correct one From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaRaisinOriginal Cast RecordingMusicJudd WoldinLyricsRobert BrittanBookRobert B. Nemiroff Charlotte ZaltzbergBasisLorraine Hansberry's play A Raisin in the SunProductions1973 BroadwayAwardsTony Award for Best Musical Raisin is a musical theatre adaptation of the Lorraine Hansberry play A Raisin in the Sun, with songs by Judd Woldin and Robert Brittan, and a book by Robert Nemiroff (who was Hansberry's former husband) and Charlotte Zaltzberg. The story concerns an African-American family in Chicago in 1951. The musical was nominated for nine Tony Awards, winning two, including Best Musical, and the Broadway production ran for 847 performances. Contents [hide] Synopsis[edit]In Chicago in 1951, an African-American family, Ruth Younger, her husband Walter Lee Younger, their son Travis and Walter's mother are living in a cramped apartment. Walter is a chauffeur but thinks that his father's life insurance policy proceeds will buy a way to a better life. He plans on buying a liquor store, but his mother Mama Lena Younger is against the selling of liquor. Tensions arise as Walter tries to convince Mama Lena to forget her dream of buying the family its own small house ("A Whole Lotta Sunlight"). Walter decides to make the deal for the liquor store and signs the papers with his partners Bobo Jones and Willie Harris. Beaneatha Younger, Walter's sister, is in college and is romantically involved with an African exchange student, Asagai. When Walter comes home drunk he joins Beaneatha in a celebratory dance, picturing himself as a chieftain ("African Dance"). Ruth and Walter fight about their future but they reconcile ("Sweet Time"). Mama arrives to announce that she has bought a house in the white neighborhood of Clybourne Park, and Walter leaves in anger. Walter has not returned home and Mama finds him in a bar. She apologizes and gives him an envelope filled with money. She asks him to deposit $3,000 for Beaneatha's college education, and tells him the rest is for him. As the family packs to move, a representative of Clybourne Park, Karl Lindner, arrives and offers to buy back the house. Walter, Ruth and Beaneatha mockingly tell Mama of the enlightened attitude of their new neighbors. Just then Bobo arrives to tell the family the bad news that Willie has run off with the money. This forces Walter to contact Lindner and accept the offer to buy back the house. Although Beaneatha berates her brother for not standing up for principles, Mama shows compassion and understanding ("Measure the Valleys"). When Lindner arrives, Walter announces that the family will, after all, move to the new house. Songs[edit]Act I
The musical began a pre-Broadway tryout on May 30, 1973 at the Arena Stage in Washington, D.C..[1] It premiered on Broadway at the 46th Street Theatre on October 18, 1973, transferred to the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre on January 13, 1975, and closed on December 8, 1975 after 847 performances. Donald McKayle was the director and choreographer, and the cast featured Virginia Capers as Lena, Joe Morton as Walter, Ernestine Jackson as Ruth, Debbie Allen as Beneatha, Ralph Carter as Travis, Helen Martin as Mrs. Johnson, and Ted Ross as Bobo. Capers later starred in the national tour. The production won the Tony Award for Best Musical.[2] The Long Beach Performing Arts Center in Long Beach, California presented the musical in February and March 2003. The Court Theatre in Chicago staged the musical from September 14 through October 22, 2006. The cast included Ernestine Jackson, who formerly had played Ruth, in the role of Lena Younger.[3] Critical reception[edit]In reviewing a performance in Washington (Arena Stage), Clive Barnes of The New York Times called it "a warm and loving work."[1] In his review of the Broadway production, Barnes noted that the book of the musical "is perhaps even better than the play.... 'Raisin' is one of those unusual musicals that should not only delight people who love musicals, but might also well delight people who don't".[4] After the Broadway opening, Walter Kerr of The New York Times wrote, "The strength of Raisin lies in the keen intelligence and restless invention of a musical underscoring that has simply invaded Lorraine Hansbury's once tightly-knit, four-walled, close-quartered play, A Raisin in the Sun, plucking the walls away, spilling the action onto the streets with a jittery down-flight of strings, mocking and matching realistic speech with frog-throated sass from the heavy-breathing viols."[5] The New York Times also reported that there are "ovations every night at the 46th Street Theatre for 'Raisin'. But they are for the cast, not individual performers. There are no stars.... It was at the Arena Theater in Washington, where the play first opened this spring, that Mr. McKayle said he started evolving the ensemble-acting concept."[6] Awards and nominations[edit]Original Broadway production[edit]YearAwardCategoryNomineeResult1974Tony Award[7]Best MusicalWonBest Book of a MusicalRobert Nemiroff and Charlotte ZaltzbergNominatedBest Original ScoreJudd Woldin and Robert BrittanNominatedBest Performance by a Leading Actor in a MusicalJoe MortonNominatedBest Performance by a Leading Actress in a MusicalVirginia CapersWonBest Performance by a Featured Actor in a MusicalRalph CarterNominatedBest Performance by a Featured Actress in a MusicalErnestine JacksonNominatedBest Direction of a MusicalDonald McKayleNominatedBest ChoreographyNominatedTheatre World AwardRalph CarterWonErnestine JacksonWonJoe MortonWon1975Grammy AwardBest Score From the Original Cast Show AlbumRobert Brittan, Judd Woldin (composers);Thomas Z. Shepard(producer); the original cast (Virginia Capers, Joe Morton, Ernestine Jackson, Robert Jackson, Deborah Allen, Helen Martin)WonReferences[edit]
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Frogman, although I had seen the movie and read the book, the play was the most impressive of them all; and the most impressive aspect of the play was the music; and that was the most impressive for me, because of the "reed doubler" down in the pit. I was seated second row, far left, and I could see him pulling different horns out of a rack while his eyes were focused on the sheet of music in front of him. Any musician who can blow sax very well is impressive to me; but this guy could blow sax, clarinet, oboe, and I don't remember what else, but he was fantastic on every instrument he blew. I'm sure the audience, who couldn't see the musicians in the pit, thought each different instrument was played by a different musician. When there was fast jazzy action on stage, the music was fast and jazzy; when it switched to jungle music, the musicians in the pit changed instruments, and instantly transported you to the congo. By the way, the name of this play was "Raisin", which is a very dramatic play with fantastic music that ran the gamut of emotions; from "Measure The Valleys" to "Alaiyo", African music that might have required a flute. Whatever, the "doublers" switched instruments and played it. Frogman, could you get the details on the play and explain to us specifics about the doublers. Here is the link to that play [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raisin_(musical)[/url] Thank you Enjoy the music. |
If it wasn’t for Learsfool. Frogman and Almarg the rest of us fools would just get dumber and dumber ! God Bless them all. A recent development in Music i find very promising is various Orchrestras having "Associated Artists " . They sign for say 12 concerts over a 3 year period and arrive 3-4 days before a concert and rehearse with the Orch., instead of here today gone tomorrow jet-set soloist who spends 10 minutes getting meters from the conductor. To my old ears makes a big difference on all fronts . |
Rok, the reasons for an institution to have an "artist in residence" can range from the magnanimous desire to provide a worthy artist with an environment conducive to the creation of his/her art with no other preconditions, to having a contractual agreement whereby the artist will teach, give lectures or, in the case of a "composer in residence", produce a work that may be premiered by the institution if that institution happens to be an (usually prominent) orchestra. In fairness, it should be noted that even in the first scenario in which the institution's motives are purely magnanimous, an institution can derive a great deal of "cache" and attention by having a prominent artist as "artist in residence". This being the case, there can be many benefits ranging from attracting top students to helping in securing funding and grants. |
Learsfool's excellent comments leave little to add. Re: ****If this music was written out, do you think the classical musicians could play it, and make the music sound as though it wasn't faked?**** I think the confusion is due to the misuse of the term "fake". "Faking" is a term in the jazz vernacular that applies mainly to "club date" settings (parties, weddings etc.) where musicians play tunes in an ensemble setting in a way that sounds as if they are playing charts or formal arrangements of those tunes. It could be said that they are "improvising" these arrangements, but this is not improvising in the way that is heard on most on the clips posted on this thread. While most of the players that are good "fakers" are also good jazz players, not all good jazz players are good fakers. It is a unique skill that requires great knowledge of harmony and the ability to think like and speak (play) the language of an arranger. It is probably impossible to describe just how difficult it is to, for example, credibly play 4th tenor saxophone parts in the context of a classic five man saxophone section in a big band of musicians that have no written music in front of them. It is virtually a lost art that was fairly common at one time. I think that O-10 meant to say: ****If this music was written out, do you think the classical musicians could play it, and make the music sound as though it WAS IMPROVISED**** Learsfool did an excellent job of addressing this issue. I particularly liked his emphasis on the idea that just because the playing is fast and with a lot of notes doesn't necessarily mean it is difficult to play. In fact, in jazz the hardest thing to do is to say the most with the fewest notes. Re doubling: "Phantom" is not a particularly good example of doubling on Broadway shows; only one of the reed books require doubling on instruments from more than one family of instruments. By contrast, in "West Side Story", Reed 3 is required to play flute, clarinet, bass clarinet, oboe, English horn, tenor saxophone and baritone saxophone. It is a daunting task to learn to play so many different instruments well and to stay in shape on them; not to mention instrument maintenance and the preparation of reeds. The doubler is also expected to be able to play credibly in many different styles and in some cases to also improvise. In fairness it should be pointed out that it is rare (not impossible) the doubler who can play each of those instruments at the same TECHNICAL level as a top single instrument or "straight" player. It might be of interest to note that doubling is required in some works in the Classical repertoire. Of note: Alban Berg "Violin Concerto"- 3rd clarinet/alto saxophone Bernstein "On The Town"- 2nd clarinet/alto saxophone Vaughn Williams "Symphony No.6"- tenor saxophone/bass clarinet |
No problem, Orpheus. As both the Frogman and I have said before, it is often difficult for musicians to discuss these types of things with non-musicians and be understood. I wish I could write as clearly as Frogman does about them; he is definitely better at describing things to non-musicians than I am. The bottom line is that some of these things that you find so mysterious aren't really, for someone who knows how it works. Once again, this is the main reason I encourage all music lovers like yourself to give music some serious study. So many of these types of things would become much more clear to you, and would greatly enhance your enjoyment of whatever you are listening to. |
Learsfool, I don't mean to leave you hanging, it's just that I don't quite know how to respond to your posts without being misunderstood, and I'm hoping Frogman will chime in. In the meantime, I'm going to sip some nog, and toast to you and all the rest of the aficionados. Have a Merry Christmas, and enjoy the music. |
Thanks rok. I was a Plt. Sgt and my chopper was shot down, several times. Pathfinders motto is "First in, last out " To each his own and all, but I told all and sundry if I fell to leave me just where I fell and move on , God could find my atoms wherever they were and he did not love one piece of ground more than another . |
Schubert: Yesterday, here at the local Texas State Veterans cemetery.. Thought it might interest you. [url]http://kdhnews.com/news/local/more-than-attend-funeral-for-vietnam-veteran-billy-david-hill/article_...[/url] |
Hello again, O-10. Now to explain more about the doublers. Let's take the first four woodwind books in your Phantom list. Woodwind 1 is Flute and Piccolo. Yes, this is technically two instruments, so it is a double. However, all piccolo players started on and still play the flute. There is no such thing as someone who only plays the piccolo. That said, a great many flute players want no part of learning the piccolo. In a big symphony orchestra, the third flute player usually is officially the piccolo player (or the second player, in a smaller orchestra). Same thing with Woodwind 3, Oboe and English Horn. Again, the English Horn is always played by an oboist, there is no such thing as someone who only plays English horn, they all started on and still play oboe. Again, in a big symphony, the third oboist would officially be the English Horn player. Woodwind 4 is technically 3 instruments, so a triple. Again, though, they are all clarinets, and there is no such thing as someone who only plays the smaller E-flat, or the larger bass. They all started on and still play the regular B-flat (and A) clarinets. However, in a big symphony orchestra, usually the second clarinet player plays the E-flat, and the third clarinet player plays the bass. So this triple is a little more unusual than the first two. There aren't too many clarinetists that would play all three really well, speaking of the top level, anyway. Woodwind 2, flute and clarinet, is what I would call a true "woodwind doubler", two totally different instruments. This is the only one of the five that is a book that only a true "woodwind doubler" specialist could play. And speaking of the Frogman, I'm sure he has done doubling work before, being extremely proficient on both clarinet and sax. No sax in Phantom, though. I think he would corroborate the above. A flute player who plays piccolo well can get more gig opportunities. Same with an oboist who plays English horn well, and a clarinet player who decides to learn the E-flat or bass clarinets well. Someone who is a principal player in a large orchestra, however, may never play those other instruments, and may never have, except out of curiosity in a practice room. And Frogman, if you see anything to correct or hopefully clarify in either of my posts today, by all means chime in! |
Hi O-10: here is your question: "If this music was written out, do you think the classical musicians could play it, and make the music sound as though it wasn't faked?" I must admit to being a little puzzled here, especially by the second half of the question. If they are playing it, then it is not faked, so I really don't understand what you are asking there. The answer to the first part of the question is of course they would have the ability to play it! Again, I am puzzled as to why you think they might not?? What they would not have the ability to do is to improvise those notes on the spot like those musicians are doing. There is nothing that is played in that clip that would be beyond their technical ability by a long shot. They would of course not sound exactly the same as the musicians in the clip, but I don't think that is what you meant. They certainly wouldn't have the same "feel" as these musicians do, who play in that style all the time. They could imitate the style pretty well with practice, but you would be still be able to tell the difference. Sort of like you can almost always tell the difference between a native speaker of a language and one who has learned a lot about it but doesn't speak it very much. I think and hope this answers your question?? If not, please continue! As far as the complexity of that music, it isn't very complex at all. Perhaps the speed and number of the notes is giving you the illusion that it is, but it is actually just a simple duet - in fact, the two soloists are almost never playing together. The beat is pretty simple and steady, as is the bass line and harmony. This is a big part of the reason the soloists can do what they are doing - the piece is a showcase for their technical and improvisatory talents. The rest of it is a very simple framework that they can play around in. Just because someone is playing very fast does not necessarily mean it is particularly difficult, by the way. Let me use Kenny G as an example of this - most of the crap he plays is just noodling around on very simple patterns, very fast, and he is miked so much that he doesn't actually have to expend much physical effort. Last time I was at a jazz club? Last night, to hear a close friend and his group. |
BTW, there are such things as Bad soldiers. The Vietnam era US Army was full of them. And as the war went on, they spread to Germany and Korea as well as bases in the U.S. Even now when you see them on TV, they all go out of their way to look like bums and thugs. Of course, McNamara's 100,000 had a lot to do with this. That was when they allowed 100,000 guys that did not meet the minimum intelligence standards into the army. The Marines and Air Force said, thanks, but no thanks. It took many years to recover. |
Rok, Frogman, and Schubert; this will take you to "Bird's best Bop"; which will lead into the documentary, "Celebrating Bird", that will go into a "Dexter Gordon Documentary"; all in all, this makes for a lot of music and entertainment. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B83B1YiVcjE&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4aAPJ2Z2qXmrFfAN0GrCdBm[/url] Enjoy the music. |
*****
rok2id, A lot of the guys I was with in the Ia Drang see it as an Icon not to be used unless you have blood in the game . I don't agree but have seen violence over it .***** It's a Military Unit, not a motorcycle gang. Not one 'owns' these colors. It's fighting history is a lot more than Ia Drang or VietNam. Read the history. And that symbol is on everything you can imagine, in this town, and Ft Hood. From the post water tower to the flag flying from the pole in my front lawn. All with pride. BTW, The unit is now an Armoured Division. You would not recognize it., or the current U.S. Army. They are a lot better and smarter than they were in Nam. Ia Drang is a very distance memory. I think they have pics in the 1st Cavalry museum. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Cheers |
Learsfool, Been thinking about what you and Frog said .My hunch is using my eyes more than my ears, is that the Koreans are always looking at each other and try more than the American players to play and blend together as job #1 , the technical issues being a given When two are playing alone in a part it seems like only one is .. Only my hunch though . |
Learsfool, this was a play that had been made into a movie, and I had already seen the movie; that's why I was so fascinated by these guys down in the pit, where they were out of sight for the audience, because the audience looked over and past them, at the play. Although they were referred to as "doublers", they may have up to eight instruments each. I just looked at what the reed section consisted of: Alto sax; Tenor sax; Clarinet; Flute;and Piccolo, plus an oboe. Now this was a dramatic play, with dramatic changes, and those guys in the pit stayed glued to that sheet of music in front of them while they changed instruments. I'm impressed by a musician who can really play any instrument; I was doubly impressed by these musicians who could play a multiplicity of instruments, and never even look at the instrument they were playing. (I guess I'm easily impressed) While they're playing, their music had to correspond with what was going on, on stage. I wonder how many "doublers" does Frogman know. Now I remember Frogman explaining that once. I was impressed then, and just the thought of what they were doing impresses me now. Phantom Of The Opera (orchestration according to The Really Useful Group, the company that holds the license) Woodwind 1 (Piccolo/Flute) Woodwind 2 (Flute/Clarinet) Woodwind 3 (Oboe/Cor Anglais) Woodwind 4 (Eb Clarinet/Bb Clarinet/Bass Clarinet) Woodwind 5 (Bassoon) 3 French Horns 2 Trumpets Trombone Percussionist 2 Keyboards Harp Violins (7 recommended) Violas (2 recommended) Cello (2 recommended) Contrabass Total: 27 Players Enjoy the music. |
Rok, "Naming some guy who plays locally in a club, is not a valid opinion." Miles Davis was "Some guy who played locally in St. Louis", Clark Terry, was some guy who played locally in St. Louis. Grant Green, was some guy who played locally in St. Louis. You don't know it, but the the guy I was referring to was someone you raved about awhile ago. So much for guys who played locally in St. Louis. Enjoy the music. |
Learsfool, you went even farther than I was inferring to in regard to "imitating" improvised music. If this music was written out, do you think the classical musicians could play it, and make the music sound as though it wasn't faked? [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B83B1YiVcjE&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4aAPJ2Z2qXmrFfAN0GrCdBm[/url] "Also you must remember that anything being improvised on the spot in a jazz club cannot be TOO complicated, otherwise it almost certainly wouldn't work, unless it was perhaps done by a group that was used to playing together all the time, and knew each other's musical tendencies very very well. And of course, as we have talked about before on this thread, the players all know the tune and the chord changes, so the melodic improvisation is taking place inside a very structured framework that all of the members of the group understand. And even if they don't know the tune at all, if they have what they call a "fake book" that includes it, they can use it and get through the tune." The music I heard on a regular basis at jazz clubs was comparable to the music I've submitted on this post, and it was done by musicians in what you and Frogman called a "pick up band". In regard to "Too complicated", meaning comparable to the music I've submitted; I'll have to let you and others be the judge of that. When "Monk" was queried what he thought was too many times about how to play something by a certain famous jazz musician, this was his response: "You a professional jazz musician, and you got a horn ain't cha". Meaning, blow the sucker, and it better come out right. Although I was referring to a jazz musicians ability to improvise in my first post, I don't think I communicated this. (BTW, when is the last time you were at a jazz club?) Enjoy the music. |
Hi Schubert - as Frogman said, the progress the Asian countries in general have made with Western music is very impressive over the past few decades - it is not specific to Korea in particular (though my Korean sister-in-law would say they are the best, LOL!). I think the same sort of discipline/work ethic that happens in their schools academically happens in their music teaching now. Another thing that their governments often do, especially in China and Hong Kong, is send students over here to study, paying for everything, with the understanding that the student is to return to that country and share the knowledge gained. When I was in grad school in San Francisco at the Conservatory, there were many such students there, from all the Far East countries - many pianists, quite a few string players, and a trombone player. All are now back in their home countries teaching others what they learned here, and sending students over here to do what they did. |
Hi O-10. Well, I am sorry that I took a jest so seriously, then, though I confess I still am not sure what you were referring to. To answer your question on pit musicians being unbelievable: really the only thing very different about some of them is that some of them, usually woodwind players, are performing on three or even more instruments. These players are called doublers, and they often specialize in that - they are just about all well-trained musicians who often play in free-lance orchestras on the side on whichever is their main instrument. Frogman can speak to that even better than I, as he has actually done some of that. Usually brass players don't tend to do that, though sometimes you might see a guy in a small jazz band playing on both trumpet and trombone. Otherwise, assuming you are speaking of Broadway show type pit musicians (technically opera and ballet orchestra members are also pit musicians - I have performed all of the above myself many times), this is actually almost the complete opposite of what a jazz musician's performance is. The Broadway shows are very well rehearsed, and then played EXACTLY the same way night after night after night after night after night, etc., never changing - every solo is played exactly the same way every night, or complaints are made about it!! The musicians have absolutely zero flexibility on interpretation. Phantom is going to sound like Phantom every damn time, just like Budweiser tastes like Budweiser every damn time. This is the main reason it sounds so polished. I, for one, could never handle doing that night in and night out. When I was free-lancing in the Bay area, I was one of the first call subs for Phantom, and the most I ever did at any one stretch was two weeks straight one time. I almost went crazy. Now I have also done opera tours that lasted for six to eight weeks, six shows a week, but luckily for me both times it was a Mozart opera that one could never get tired of, and they were double and triple cast, so there was some variety and flexibility in the performances. In a Broadway production, the subs have to come in and play everything exactly the same way as the regulars do. Often you are required to come sit in the pit for a couple of shows to observe before you actually get to sub just for this reason. I confess that I am not sure why you are blown away that something written out could sound improvised, though - that is not a hard thing to achieve at all. Just about any symphonic pops show is full of many such examples - I have played such written out horn solos myself before in performance. And usually when a symphony does a big band show or something similar, a lead trumpet player is brought in to do the solos, and the rest of us take our stylistic cues from him. All professional musicians have very good ears for these kinds of things and will pick up on how to play in the right style almost immediately. This is not to say that they will suddenly sound like the Ellington or Basie bands, of course, but you get the point. Also you must remember that anything being improvised on the spot in a jazz club cannot be TOO complicated, otherwise it almost certainly wouldn't work, unless it was perhaps done by a group that was used to playing together all the time, and knew each other's musical tendencies very very well. And of course, as we have talked about before on this thread, the players all know the tune and the chord changes, so the melodic improvisation is taking place inside a very structured framework that all of the members of the group understand. And even if they don't know the tune at all, if they have what they call a "fake book" that includes it, they can use it and get through the tune. |
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfgNR_aiSTg[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_XApCBcnY[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mP9T8BQ_bQ[/url] Cheers |