I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
You know, right now I've got a terrible flu and can't yell even thru the net. I can't tolerate any music either. If we start accusing each other of lack of nuance and feel this thread will be destroyed. By us. Orpheus10, I think you are wrong, even if Frogman might not have been as empathic as you would've liked him to be.
"Misty" is a jazz standard written in 1954 by the pianist Erroll Garner. Originally composed as an instrumental following the traditional 32-bar format, the tune later had lyrics by Johnny Burke and became the signature song of Johnny Mathis. The song I presented is from the album "Vaughan and Violins".
"Listen", "Listen" "Listen"; can you hear; did you hear the "romanticism" in Erroll Garner's piano; he wrote the tune, that's the way it's supposed to sound.
O-10, only for the sake of the music since there is so much there there as they say.
I don’t have a problem with nuance and feel at all. Quite the contrary; and, the discussion leading up to your comments about Sarah Vaughn are a fine example of that, had you been paying attention. Moreover, the details of nuance and feel can most definitely be put into words. Now, not being able to put those things into words is a separate matter altogether; some can and some can’t. I am not at all suggesting that the ability to put these things into words is what determines a listener’s ability to perceive them; I would never make that kind of judgment about another listener. However, since you insist on continuing to make judgmental comments of a personal nature if you open that door I may be more than willing to walk through it: You feel I have a “problem with nuance and feel” in spite of the fact that I use those very words in my posts very frequently and far more often than you do. That is your perception and I am fine with that. However, the issue as I see it is that you have a problem separating the details of your life and personal experiences as they may relate to any given music with the reality of the music in a more objective context. I’ll try it again...peace.
Rok, she’s no Dan Nimmer; you’re right. Not too bad, though; and I like her composition. What makes the piece is the arrangement by one of the biggest talents in that band, Ted Nash. One of the best solos I’ve ever heard Wynton play; completely idiomatic and creative. He sounds great on that. Thanks for that. Great band.
One of the biggest talents in Wynton’s band, Ted Nash won two Grammy awards for this. Very interesting work with some wonderful playing and featuring much of Wynton’s JALC band.
Great clips, acman3. For me, one of the most interesting things about Sarah Vaughn is how the timbre of her voice changed as she aged; it deepened and got thicker sounding...a lot. All three “Misty’s” posted so far and this next one make a good example of this. The studio recording is from 1958, the live in Sweden trio version is from 1968. I could not find any date info for the clip you posted, but I would place it at around ten years later or so (1980?). This next one is from 1990, the year she passed. Each one shows a progressively deeper and thicker sounding voice. The earlier recordings sound almost as if she is singing the song in a higher key. She’s not; same key every time. Aside from the change in the timbre of her voice it is interesting how much the live recordings differ as far as interpretation and delivery. Fantastic artist.
Conducted by Quincy Jones and His Orchestra with Zoot Sims on Saxaphone, "Misty" is a jazz standard written in 1954 by the pianist Erroll Garner. Originally composed as an instrumental following the traditional 32-bar format, the tune later had lyrics by Johnny Burke and became the signature song of Johnny Mathis. This song is from the album "Vaughan and Violins".
Sarah's accompanied Quincy Jones & His Orchestra: Marcel Hrasko (alto saxophone), Jo Hrasko &William Boucaya (baritone saxophone), Richard Davis (bass), Kenny Clark (drums), Ronnel Bright (piano), Zoot Sims (tenor saxophone), and Michel Hausser (vibraphone). Recorded in Paris, France July 7, 1958. (Mercury Records)
Wasn't Miles Davis recording soundtrack for Lift to the Scaffold in Paris at about the same time ? Great music, I didn't like the movie, though, but great music.
SV's version of Misty from the "Sassy Swings The Tivoli" 2 disc set I have sounds incredible as does every song on both discs. Sarah really had it going on that night!
In a total 360 I'm going from Sarah Vaugh to Frank Zappa. That's right - Frank Zappa. He recorded a plethora of albums that fit into the jazz fusion category and even had a "big band" on many of them, sometimes with as many as 20 instrumentalists. I am a big Frank Zappa fan so maybe I am a little biased when I give my opinion that he was one on a short list top all-time of musical "Geniuses" of the 20th century.
"That studio sound"; is that the sound of the golden standard, the one that Sarah her self considers her best. Is that the sound of some of the most incredible musicians to ever back a vocalist?
Quincy Jones, Kenny Clark, and Zoot Sims, a few of the greatest jazz musicians of our time backed Sarah on that session. Why do you keep trying to denigrate that session with this "Studio sound crap"?
Inna, your observation is even more interesting than at first meets the eye. “Vaughn and Violins” and “Lift To...” were recorded six months apart and both in Paris. It is interestting that they both share a similar studio production sound typical of the era and which was due in part to the generous use of reverb. It is likely that both were both recorded in the same studio. What is verifiable is the fact that the drummer, the great Kenny Clarke who was living in Paris at the time and bassist Pierre Michelot, then the busiest bassist in Paris played on both sessions. It’s a small world in the music scene.
O-10, will you please take a deep breath and chill out. No one is trying to “denigrate” anything. The sound of that record is what it is and is a particualr aesthetic. I will not refrain from pointing out or discussing what to me are interesting details about the music just for the sake of somehow not upsetting you or your need to win an argument. I will not walk on eggshells like that. Please hear this and put the issue to rest:
I LIKE “VAUGHN AND STRINGS”. I LIKE IT. I REALLY LIKE IT.
Is that clear enough for you? The argument which you started (as usual) was around which was the “best” of the two versions. This is something that you are always trying to do, “best” this and “best” that. When one is talking about music on such a high level there is usually no “best”; only different and appealing to the different aesthetic sense and sensibilities of different listeners. The reasons why that may be so is interesting to me and many others. It appears it is not be to you.
Btw, with respect, you really should try and learn a bit more about the role of a producer in music production. I assure you that the producer and orchestrator (Q) on that record, not Vaughn, were the primary determinants of the “sound” of that record.
"Well, O-10, no sense breaking the streak; since you want to keep track. The live Sarah/“Misty” wins hands down in my book."
When you stated that, you threw the gauntlet down, and it was my duty to respond.
"The studio version...just that. Studio produced; faster, with A LOT of “sweetening”, less intimate. A bit Muzak(ish); what some refer to as elevator music. Different performance environments and as always, she knows the tape is rolling."
And then you went on to call it "Elevator music"; if that's not denigrating I'd like to know what is?
Who are these "many others"? Sounds like a tactic for dragging others into your lame argument.
Yes, I am upset; I'm upset with the idea that anyone on this thread should exhibit such poor taste, as to choose that trio over the gold standard.
This is not a matter of preference; this over that, but it's a matter of one thing being clearly superior to another. This must be a joke you're playing on me, that's it, isn't it Frogman; because I can not believe that after everything was pointed out, and even after Sarah herself referred to that version as her best, you would stick to this "studio sound, elevator music thing".
While we all have different preferences, when the quality of one thing is so superior to the quality of another, and an aficionado chooses the wrong one, that's disheartening; I'm in the wrong room; it's about good taste in this room, and there are times when it's as apparent as the nose on your face.
To paraphrase an old expression, opinions are like noses, everybody has one.
So one of my opinions is that the word "best" should be banned from discussions of music or audio gear. To proclaim anything as best is to suggest that ALL other contenders have been compared. In most cases that is simply not reasonable.
Now, one can state that "in my experience" or "among what I own" I like example X best, nothing wrong with that.
Regarding SV's "Misty" with Quincy, I can only state that it is a very rare jazz recoding that I enjoy when it is backed by strings. For my taste and my experience that removes a basic element of jazz since it must be composed and played so carefully. So that rather handicaps that particular version from the get-go for me. But so what? That shouldn't influence anyone else's enjoyment.
Again in my view, the best function of this entire post is for any aficionado to post or comment with a specific musical example and say "I enjoy this and would like to share it in the event someone else might feel the same." The value is in hearing something not known before or learning more about the personal or technical background in a given piece of music. Speaking for myself, that's why I'm here. Not to judge or criticize anyone else's taste, even when it doesn't align with my own.
As a footnote, I happen to be a fan of Zappa as well pjw, and I find some of his music to suggest strong jazz elements. That in spite of his comment that "jazz is not dead, it just smells funny." ;^)
Unintentionally, I presume, we touched on the subject of after the war Paris jazz scene, and general culture. I understand, that was an interesting and somewhat wild time there. Black American musicians were invited and welcome, treated very differently compared to the US. Speaking of Miles specifically, I think he is in fact more popular in Europe and Japan than in America, especially his late sixties and later music. He left classical jazz in an effort to put slavery behind him, and he might've succeeded. Orpheus10, we can be slaves of our own memories and even enjoy it, in a way.
Generations of music lovers have already determined what is and what is not, not me; that's why all of a sudden I feel foolish engaging in this foolish debate.
Excellent post, pryso. Of course, I agree as I said previously with what you wrote about the folly in deeming any one performance “the best”. A couple of additional points and why I sometimes find it so frustrating to try and discuss some of this. At the heart of my position is what you correctly point out: to deem something ”the best” presumes that EVERY other example of same has been experienced. Highly unlikely and usually not the case. Even more importantly, the unfortunate byproduct of this kind of grandstanding is that in taking this kind of inflexible position and personalizing it, truly interesting discussion of the details around the merits of the performances being compared don’t happen. Not only does it not happen, in trying to justify one’s position sometimes silly things get said. For instance:
**** It’s absolutely impossible for a trio to compete with that musical lineup. ****
That is such a nonsensical and silly comment. So, all those great trio and quartet performances that we have discussed here and revere are, by definition, inferior to heavily produced and orchestrated versions. Really? It’s like saying that a solo piano performance cannot possibly be better than a trio performance. Huh? This is what I wrote in response to O-10’s assertion that my choice for a good example of singer with acoustic ensemble version of “Misty” was not the best choice. Let’s remember, my comment was in response to Rok’s post of Dee Dee’s likewise acoustic version which I felt was “over the top”:
**** Don’t get me wrong, she can practically do no wrong in my book, but those two renditions are practically apples/oranges. The live one is jazz trio only, and far more relaxed and evocative; much more in the spirit of jazz. The studio version...just that. Studio produced; faster, with A LOT of “sweetening”, less intimate. A bit Muzak(ish); what some refer to as elevator music. ****
As I’ve said already, I like that recording a lot, strings sweetening and all. Simply not as much as the trio version that I posted and others like it. Apples and oranges. Moreover, not only do I generally prefer Sarah (and most jazz singers) in a trio setting, but this was a very young Sarah and I feel she became a better and more interesting singer as she matured. And incredibly (more silliness), the assertion about it being Sarah’s “best” is in comparison to a live performance that isn’t even on a record. So, with as long a career as Sarah had and the probably hundreds of times that she sang that song, THAT 1958 recording in a studio was “THE BEST” she ever sang the song. I kind of doubt it. Ironically, my favorite version of “Misty” by Sarah is on the “Live In Japan” record. I didn’t post that because it is not available on the Tube. Most music lovers have never even heard most versions besides the Vaughn/Strings, so what exactly does any of this prove?
I am afraid, I disagree with you. I judge things myself, regardless of "generations of music lovers". It is a more difficult position if you think about it, whether it is also more arrogant or not is not a simple subject.
All this talk about studio recordings and pjw’s Zappa posts reminded me of one of my favorite and one of his most Zappaishly cynical tunes. His parody on the studio-musician scene (no “denigration” of Sarah intended) 😉
Orpheus10, how is this woman for your taste? It’s a very short piece of Spanish movie Carmen by Carlos Saura. Highly recommended. Paco de Lucia plays Paco, greatest flamenco dancer Antonio Gades plays himself too. Christina Hoyos - incredible flamenco dancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZ3ei5juBA
Rok, jazz for you. Very informal setting, no clubs, no usual pomp. And don't tell me you don't like it because I won't believe you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxpEigG9bCw
Inuit folk ? Ha, sounds good to me. Siberian funk..I think, you invented a new category. No, it's not jazz in a full sense of it, it's jazzy whatever. John's sense of partner is as good as ever.
I'm a sucker for great harmony singing. I don't listen to them much anymore but still would enjoy a little time again with the Four Freshmen or the Hi-Lo's. Yes, Manhattan Transfer too.
Regarding the Pinkertons, well you just need to see the movie.
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